CFN – What’s considered mail and what’s considered mail fraud?
noun
1. letters, packages, etc., that are sent or delivered by meansof the postal system: Storms delayed delivery of the mail.2. a single collection of such letters, packages, etc., as sent ordelivered: to open one’s mail; to find a bill in the mail; The mail for England was put on the noon plane.3. Also, mails. the system, usually operated or supervised bythe national government, for sending or delivering letters,packages, etc.; postal system: to buy clothes by mail.4.a train, boat, etc., as a carrier of postal matter.5. electronic mail; e-mail.
Canada
Section 380(1) of the Criminal Code of Canada provides the general definition for fraud in Canada:
380. (1) Every one who, by deceit, falsehood or other fraudulent means, whether or not it is a false pretence within the meaning of this Act, defrauds the public or any person, whether ascertained or not, of any property, money or valuable security or any service,
- (a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to a term of imprisonment not exceeding fourteen years, where the subject-matter of the offence is a testamentary instrument or the value of the subject-matter of the offence exceeds five thousand dollars; or
- (b) is guilty
- (i) of an indictable offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years, or
- (ii) of an offence punishable on summary conviction,
where the value of the subject-matter of the offence does not exceed five thousand dollars.[1]
In addition to the penalties outlined above, the court can also issue a prohibition order under s. 380.2 (preventing a person from “seeking, obtaining or continuing any employment, or becoming or being a volunteer in any capacity, that involves having authority over the real property, money or valuable security of another person”). It can also make a restitution order under s. 380.3.[2]
The Canadian courts have held that the offence consists of two distinct elements:
- A prohibited act of deceit, falsehood or other fraudulent means. In the absence of deceit or falsehood, the courts will look objectively for a “dishonest act”; and
- The deprivation must be caused by the prohibited act, and deprivation must relate to property, money, valuable security, or any service.[3]
The Supreme Court of Canada has held that deprivation is satisfied on proof of detriment, prejudice or risk of prejudice; it is not essential that there be actual loss.[4] Deprivation of confidential information, in the nature of a trade secret or copyrighted material that has commercial value, has also been held to fall within the scope of the offence.[5]
So when envelopes were delivered to City Council as is alleged and now confirmed, and not delivered to council how do we define this? And where does the buck stop? At Mayor Bob Kilger as he has stated publicly several times?
I spoke with former Cornwall Ontario City Councilor Leslie O’Shaughnessy today and asked him the following questions.
CFN
Are you aware of envelopes sent to City Hall around “December 2010” addressed to you that were not delivered?
I send mail addressed individually to councillors along with a “cc” list of other recipients (eg other councillors and the city clerk), but not so much to ensure they get the item but so that they don’t deny being aware of it.
Oh Boy! Can’t wait to see “Jules” take on this one ??
I would like to know.
To be fraud, I think it would have to be done for monetary gain.
I don’t know what the laws are regarding withholding, stealing, or destroying mail. Any lawyers around here?
What motivates a person to withhold another’s mail; megalomania, disdain, arrogance, disrespect? Maybe it’s an habitual behaviour…to hide things that is.
Perhaps a Full/Outside Inquiry Must be Called by the RCMP
If one spouse withheld mail purposely from another, especially regarding health or wealth issues as well as government documents, then definitely one would consider this a domestic mail fraud, yet I believe it is more common among disgruntled spouse’s than we would think.
Now then, if mail is deliberately withheld in order to circumvent political standing in upcoming discussions, decision making (votes) etcetera I would take that to be an indictable offense just as one would a prosecutor purposely withholding pertinent documentation to sway his/her case in a court of law.
Elected officials are elected on a basis of integrity and trust. Once that tust and understanding is broken we have a flaw in the ‘bonding/oath, aspects of the individual(s) responsible.
Regardless of secrecy/openness issues, a theft of completion is no different than a theft of a worker of corporate time for personal gain….even extra breaks ‘because they need that smoke’, it is still a theft.
To hold letter is shameful and demeaning not of just the pertinent situation but demeans the entire flow of our city administration and council. A shameful sham of gamesmanship is what it is; petty at the very least. Criminal is a possibility as well.
Despicable if it is/was done with intent. The entire city ought to be screaming at the top of their lungs if they can no longer trust that their personal reach to all areas of council and administration has been thwarted by anyone person or groups of persons.
WE PAY ALL YOUR SALARIES AND IN DOING
SO EXPECT FULL, HONEST, COMPETENESS OF ALL EXPECTATIONS..IN OTHER WORDS CLARITY. IN DEALING WITH CITY BUSINESS ON OUR BEHALF.
You damn right we do.
Dave Windsor
CORNWALL
My common sense tells me if you are paid for delivering a service but intentionally withhold it and conceal your deception, it’s a fraud.
More resignations or firings with major payouts to follow????????
The problem Dave is the bad guys and gals are getting pensions + payouts. Because the politicians are not being held accountable by city management and city management is not holding the politicians accountable the taxpayer is getting it up the gazoo.
.
And there are some good people at City Hall who sadly are staying quiet when they know certain things. It drives me nuts when I tell a source that if they would go public a lot of this could end.
.
A city should not be run under a cloud of fear. Mayor Kilger has stated repeatedly that the buck stops at him. He has to answer for this and council has to answer as to why they have supported his and the CAO’s machinations…
Leslie O’shaughnessy = This man was the most talented person on City Con . Leslie had the guts to stand up & say what he thought in the interest of the Taxpayers he wasn’t any pushover or follower like most of our Coun appear to be . Information was withheld from him that shouldn’t have been for reasons that are obvious . Leslie was his own man working for & on behalf of the Taxpayers . For that he got shafted . Mayor Kilger should you not hang your head in shame ?
Were they postmarked and stamped?
I just read this article and I have to read the posts from the people and I am burning like as if someone set fire under my chair. I am so mighty furious as the City of Cornwall’s administration that I feel like flying out of my window 8 floors high and fly over to the mayor and council and slap them around to waken them up. You want to believe that this is mail fraud indeed. There is so much corruption under Kilger and Kilger has to go PRONTO! There is no time to waste get rid of this jerk.
When I worked in the government and did secretarial and clerical work on my term jobs (I was permanent before as a word processor) I had to log in the mail that came on my desk even though the mail guys logged it in their books when it came in from outside. When any officer sent a letter or a memorandum I had to log it in as well. Anything of an emergency or something of upmost importance that couldn’t have anybody’s eyes to see I had to put a red tag on the letter or memo. I had some of these to put through for the director’s attention and it was up to him to tell the staff.
Tampering with the mail is criminal indeed and a person can go to jail for holding back the mail.
Sometimes people’s mail comes in my mailbox who no longer lives here and I have to put it aside for the mailman to bring back to the postoffice. If I were to throw that mail I would be in trouble. Sometimes my mail along with others goes to another street and the one that delivers the mail is responsible for this. I was speaking to the supers about this along with some of my neighbors. It sure is a federal offence to tamper with the mail.
I like Mr. O’Shaunessey and was sad to see this man go and I knew very well that he was well aware of the corruption going around. André Rivette is well aware as well but he has to keep quiet because he is sworn to do that. I know about the oath and even when we leave office we cannot say anything.
I think it’s more serious than a mail fraud. I see the issue here is not that a postman dumped mail because he was lazy to go his long route. The issue here is that the mail was delivered to city hall by Canada Post, but it was withheld by Mayor (or ordered to withhold) to reach the addresses (councillors).
I agree Tim, but what is the law regarding the interception of mail after it has been delivered to a corporation by Canada Post? What are the legal requirements re delivering mail within City Hall?
As if things are not bad enough my husband just came in now telling me about a son of a prominent doctor in Cornwall posing as a lawyer here in Ottawa who isn’t a lawyer and defrauded a couple over $100K. We all know who this doctor is and I want everyone to go on the Ottawa Sun Newspaper PRONTO! You will get your eye full. The more I read the more I want to hide. Cornwall is little Chicago for sure. Cornwall is not big like Chicago and it is a shame. Please folks this post is off topic and excuse me Jaimie but I want you and everyone to go and look at this in the Ottawa Sun now please. I feel like hiding under my desk and not come out. Cornwall is so full of corruption and more so since Kilger is in as mayor. Boss Hogg is what I am going to call Kilger. Even Boss Hogg on the TV didn’t have that much corruption to deal with.
if mail is addressed to an individual whether it be at city hall I would think or anywhere else it is to go to that person not withheld or opened… I have never heard of such a bunch of yahoos running this city… and getting away with it..
I too have felt that Mr. Leslie O’Shaughnessy was one of the most sincere men of integrity and true grit that we had on council. I respect a few more indeed yet he was far and away a man I could trust implicitly. There are so many others that would stab you in the back as quick as tell you they agree with you.
Others are nefarious and those over zealous narcissistic ones who take only responsibility for all things done and gone right and absolutely none for anything even if directly their screw up.
With so much of the infighting people games that go on in politics of all stripes, I personally will never run for any office. Despite all of that being said, giving license to the card holders, I still see merit in each and every member of our administration and council. To paint all with the same brush would certainly be unfair and uncalled for.
The bottom line through it all is to vote your honest preferences and to ONLY vote for as few not all that you can in our next election. I’d hate to see any leave on a cloud of doubt but it is what it is no matter who will be left behind.
All attitudes run downhill from the top, so it is the head of a snake that needs to take the fall………..just like a P.M. or a President, the mayor too must accept the will of the voter or not even run the nexrt time. He sets the entire tone of office.
Hey, Leslie, why don’t YOU run for mayor next time. You’ll have my vote. Oh, by the way, we really do need a beach…………..a good platform to ad to yours…..just ask the locals, the voter mass, the citizens and they will say yes if you show them where and how.
Dave
Dave Windsor = While I do agree that Leslie O’ Shaughnessy would make a very good Mayor for our City , he certainly has the knowledge plus the integrity required and certainly the , experience & above all this man is HONEST & a straight shooter . However I don’t think he’ll run for Mayor . This man has been dealt with by kilger & his flunkies in a very rotten underhanded manner & it has taken a toll on him and his family , The only possible way in my opinion he might consider it would be if some very good people would step forward and run on a ticket with him & clean house at City Coun. Wouldn’t that be just great ?
I don’t trust Kilger any further than I can throw him and boy that wouldn’t be far that is for sure – I don’t think that I could pick him up to throw him.
When Mr. O’Shaunessey left council I felt bad and I knew right away that things were getting mighty bad around there. I was in shock what happened to André Rivette and I still am folks.
Mr. O’Shaunessey is well qualified to be mayor but like what Believe Me said is that he went through too much to even consider it.
Folks out there I want all of you to get active in the community and change the BS going around council and elsewhere. Cornwall has some very good people living there and is getting a terrible rap by those you think are good and all the time they are nothing but the dirt under my shoes. Nobody is better than the other whether they be doctor or street cleaner do I make myself understood folks. A title means nothing – it is one’s personal integrity that counts. If your word is no good or you are a crook then all the degrees and position mean nothing. I am talking to you all like as if I know you even though I don’t but to give you all good council. A person’s good reputation means more than all the money in the world and having good intelligence and reputation. Forget what a person does for a living but it is what kind of person that person really is.
Mr. O’Shaunessey and André Rivette are both people of integrity and I knew André and his family since I was a very young child. That is what I call a good and close family and people of their word. When I look at Cornwall’s council I see a lot of missing links in that council and one is to have a good mayor and his “dimentia CAO – Mr. Million Bucks with no brains” Fitzy that takes fitz not knowing that he made many huge economic mistakes that costs the taxpayers a bundle of money. You all better think about the many boondoggles that took place and still happening. This bunch must be thrown out as soon as possible before anything worse happens. The place is so mighty corrupted that I can’t even begin to say it since Jamie won’t print it but I guarantee that people you come to respect and not respectable at all. Change the council and stop getting involved with any of them even on a social basis. I wipe my shoes with them all. I have respect for André and for Mr. O’Shaunessey.
Jules, you’ve said everything right. This mayor,the grey haired council, waiting for their last day on earth, to make it possible to make everybody’s life miserable, make people bide by their terms and keep Cornwall from being a #1 city to live in.
They should be backing the TV station idea, assisting those Cornwall citizens who have good ideas for the improvements to the city, the council should not be of use to their own self preservation.
If they cannot allow themselves to give to the to the people a chance of ideas, they should not be on the council.
Have nice day.
So, does anyone know the legal ramifications for intercepting and withholding mail from city counselors , or is this story and thread just another fart in a windstorm? Will there be any follow up on this, or will we just get on to the next civic scandal and forget about this one?
Ed what I was told is that “All Good Things Come to Those That Wait” 🙂
The greying of America doesn’t appear to be something new does it. We can recall this story about every last municiple election we’ve ever had since god was a cowboy.
The backroom has seen this kind of problem in possibly every political office and many corporate offices as well. The poor guys at the front end of these kinds of issues end up taking the fall. The hard workers take the fall while the wise ass’s create his fall and brown networking gets the screwer the promo, the accolades etcetera, etcetera. You all know this story too.
Manipulative management towards an uphill goal or to send the stuff downhill has always been and likely always will be. It’s called looking after yourself first.
I am not naive here. Don’t you be either. Be careful of that speial friend who holds you close cause it just could be they place their enemies in that position, ahead of their real friends.
ie. Hold your friends close and hold your enemies closer…ie invite them to dinner before you shoot them.
These gamesmanships may not affect everyone but people are people and personal dignity and respect and INCOME are the drivers to get ahead aren’t they. So too is the desire to see an underling wince as you turn the screws.
The activities in this case are likely indictable in this environment where they are under oath or a ‘bonding’ contractual agreement.
My belief is that nothing other than this opportunity to bitch about it is going to happen. Haven’t seen any other media feeds, have you? That says a lot doesn’t it. Too bad but that’s the way it is……..they (whoever they are) are currently shuffling the deck.
Have a nice day.
Mail is delivered to the city hall, sorted then delivered internally by a city worker to other depts. You can bet a million bucks someone right at City Hall had everything to do with this, who knows she could be retiring soon. Kilger your such a low life coward, how does it make you feel most city employees just hear your name and we feel sick? Here is hoping come election this is one fire your son can’t put out, what would be really nice? when and it will, when everything does come to light maybe your other son will be the one told to arrest your sorry ass.
I want to say something else. Cornwall does have potential but it is people like Kilger and the others around the council table except André and Leslie who make things bad. Believe me my husband walked into our room twice once yesterday and once again today what he read about a certain individual in Cornwall known to all of you about what a member of his own family did and is in mighty hot water (boiling is what I can say) over his actions. I know who this individual was and is involved with and when you read these things here in Ottawa’s papers it makes Cornwall look mighty bad.
I am telling everyone to do what you can to promote Cornwall in a very positive way. Since Kilger came in things have been worse like a 360° turnaround. I thought that things were crazy under Martelle but this takes the cake for corruption.
Sorry folks for my posts but I will say something else. Someone at City Hall (a clerk) is responsible to deliver the mail. All incoming and outgoing mail is recorded in a book and then distributed to whoever it belongs to or mailed out to whoever’s name is on the envelope. Both the date and time are recorded. Someone is tampering with the mail for sure. There is usually a mail room like we have here in Ottawa. I have a sneeky suspicion that Kilger put a mark on certain mail to be delayed and also to go to him before it reaches his councellors, etc. This is fraud and mail tampering and a person can go to prison for this. People when the elections come up get rid of Kilger and company. I can see the tensions in André all the way here in Ottawa. That poor man is going through a lot and so has Leslie O’Shaunessey. Both their families have gone through the ringer. I know enough about their brown nosing and the click and that is not a healthy environment to work under. People’s health would pay a terrible price to work under such a condition. The others around that table are like Kilger. Remember that when the elections come up folks. I am living here in Ottawa but Cornwall is in me and I want the town to prosper. There is only one way to do that get rid of those crooks.
Folks, is Cornwall in Canada or in a some banana republic?
You know, the problem with city environment within the politco-sphere is always the same. Initially the new-bee’s are the real go getter workers who spin off the old roosters for direction and guidance. They soon learn that the rule is just one. You scratch my back and I will scratch yours. Networking is and has always been how things get done in such an environment.
Like it or not, the grey’s have it made because they know and play the game better than the new-bee’s could ever in one term.
Problem is that after two terms or more, Mr. Stale takes over. Void of new ideas, intransigent about those of others, protectionistic on behalf of all their personal allegiances’ (ie. bankers and other money men, business interests), we end up with a negative non-productive council.
Time for more retirements and voter firings in next election. We need to ‘see’ more forward motions like a new beach, open discussions in print about a prospective update for all the vacant lands, such as the Domtar property, the No-corode 7th and Cumberland. Keep us informed.
The heavy handling of councilors, secrecy about anything always leaves suspicion for sham and shame, fraudulent behavior and aanything wrong people can think off. Of course closed doors and angry councilors will raise the baar of suspicion about things, be they personnel relations, mis-direction of finances etcetera.
Doubtful we will see any other changes until it becomes election time again. Then we will see……then we will see. Lets hope there will be no more muck to throw between now and then.