First of all, I apologize for stating that some English schools would not offer the same or implying such! I was wrong for stating that but I believe strongly that learning a new language or skill should not be demonized or even frowned upon!
I believe we have arguably the best school system in Canada since our children have the opportunity to attend school in either French or English and in a Catholic or Public systems. Having these choices is a benefit to our community, which may not be here forever, and I feel extremely fortunate that our children and parents still have these options!
I hope you appreciate the fact that unlike many here you will hear me admit to my faults as I strive to better myself both politically and professionally on a continuous basis! When is the last time you heard a politician in Cornwall admit to an error and then proceed to fix it? I truly respect those who are humble enough to practice humility and are straight forward; right or wrong!
I never stated ONLY SMART parents send their children to All French Schools! I said MANY SMART parents send their children to All French Schools!
My comment was spurred because I, like so many, am tired and becoming simply annoyed with the fact that too many members of the LFA have ambushed almost every topic with comments about language!
I speak for many when I say: WE ARE TIRED OF LISTENING TO ANTI-FRENCH RANTS! Especially, when the topic has absolutely nothing to do with language! We get it you hate that French is an ASSET and that we all should CLEARLY (and continuously) ensure that language is not the main reason for hiring a perspective candidate!
Some have claimed (including Tammy Hart) it is a waste of tax dollars to have all French schools and that it is foolish and unneeded! My comment and use of the word SMART was to state we are not STUPID for sending our children to these schools! I wanted to congratulate the school for putting forth such a great effort but somehow many of you have made it seem as if I am against Anglophone schools! After, reading my comment I can see how someone may have interpreted such and hence my apology at the start of this letter! However, I wish to add that we are entitled to our opinions and right to choose what’s best for our children. No one should dictate our families choice of education!
Keep in mind I am not trying to force French on you or persuade you in any way! Despite your beliefs my wife is Francophone and I am Bilingual and I definitely speak better English than French! I only wish to end such debate because I think our language of choice or freedom of speech is a basic right worth protecting and the more people we can help (French, English, Mohawk, etc.) the more advance our society will become!
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No Stella. It’s not clear. It’s anecdotal. I know of patients if that clinic that have shared about a shortage of docs at the French clinic
cc2 wrote: Merit should ALWAYS come first
Yep we keep hearing that all the time. So tell me cc2, how does one measure merit? How can the english freedom fighters say for sure that management does not include merit when hiring? Until you are actively involved in the hiring process, YOU HAVE NO PROOF TO YOUR ALLEGATIONS.
Easy for the english freedom fighters to say…..ya well, merit should be first when hiring when you haven’t a clue whether language superceded merit. Good GOD…..get real!!!
Some may say I was told my french wasn’t good enough, isn’t that proof….NO. I will tell you why, because it wasn’t good enough. Besides there is more to an interview then language, the demeanor of an applicant also plays an important role. By the sounds of SOME of these english freedom fighters, not surprising they didn’t get what they applied for.
Mike in his cowardice ways, still hasn’t answered any of the posters questions….
Feel free to answer in French ONLY, bc honestly I’ve had better debates with my dog!
If you can’t handle the heat get out of the kitchen!!!!
Mike Bedard said,
February 11, 2013 at 6:41 pm
“Well Concerned Citizen 2 if you can’t see this is offensive than I am sorry to here that you are blind as well as deaf ….oops was that too offensive for you???”
Well, YES Mikey I find it very offensive to degrade people with disabilities…
“Francophone services for their elderly parents!”
UMMM, did you mead bilingual services????
Freudian slip Mikey???
“Until you are actively involved in the hiring process, YOU HAVE NO PROOF TO YOUR ALLEGATIONS”
So exactly what kind of proof do you have in CCH hiring practices???
Here’s my proof of discriminatory hiring practices!
concerned citizen 2
He never commented on how the French Catholic school board practices discrimination while teaching about god.
He cannot its all his own opinion.
February 11, 2013 at 6:17 pm
” SO…I guess it is safe to say we need a french clinic and indeed they are not taking new patients…..got that sugar?”
No Stella we need a bilingual clinic as having a clinic that serves one ethnicity is SEGREGATION ….understand ? or is it too big a word for you …SEGREGATION.
February 11, 2013 at 7:14 pm
“However, seeing that only 12% speak French at home does work against what I just said but really 1 in 10 or 1 in 5 doesn’t change really anything!”
But that’s only a little statistical thing right.
Representation by population which is fair and equitable .
So 1 in 10 are truly bilingual so therefore 1 in 10 hires should be bilingual. ,but it goes way beyond those numbers.
100 % bilingual health unit ,50%+ bilingual hospital and the “numbers where NOT warranted continue on and on and on.
“This is why so many Hardcore Francophones try to preserve their language and feel they need French schools. This is why so many Hardcore Francophones try to preserve their language and feel they need French schools. It is also why they want Francophone services for their elderly parents! They want their children to speak and enjoy the same language and culture they did!
I really do understand that they want to preserve their culture -great ,and that is done first at home ,but does other cultures have to learn it to get government jobs?
But I take insult when you say :
“It is also why they want Francophone services for their elderly parents! ”
So bilingual is not good enough they have to be francophone?
That like saying” I want a WHITE English speaking person for my elderly patients!”
Do you not see that as ETHNOCENTRIC ,if someone is capable of speaking your language you should be happy ,but atlas they are not true francophones.
There is a difference to providing language services then requesting a Francophone ?
February 11, 2013 at 8:20 pm
“Yep we keep hearing that all the time. So tell me cc2, how does one measure merit? How can the english freedom fighters say for sure that management does not include merit when hiring?”
Education and experience first ,when a job is termed bilingual all applicants no matter the education or experience that are not bilingual can not even apply.
So what you get is the best “bilingual applicant” as the majority of applicants are not bilingual therefore through bilingual exclusion process chances are that you do not get the BEST APPLICANT.
Therefore language holds more credit then Education!
So the Family doctor can perform heart surgery because he speaks the second language? MERIT FIRST!
What is missed here and all to often neglected is the preverbal bigger picture. We argue about the language but neglect the care of the people. 2% of the population cannot speak English or so stats Canada claims. What about the fact that this is health care for everyone, not just the 2%?
Besides if Canada is a bilingual nation and we have two official languages how come 2% of the people cannot speak English?
Once again we are schlepped into a pile only serving the minority. That in itself is anti constitutional.
They are taking the rights of others away to serve a purpose, in the French language case or on the hospital in particular, so Helen can justify her job.
Ask yourselves the hospital has been running the same way since I think 1897. How did we deal with non English speaking people for so long and keep them safe.
Do you honestly think French was a concern for so long? How many people actually perished or received poor care over that time due to that?
Why is Canada so head strong in a language that the world rarely uses?
How do you think forcing your language on people will win you any support?
If this standard is not set by the governing bodies of health care, what gives these two women in Cornwall the right to enforce this as a requirement?
February 12, 2013 at 6:59 am
Why is Canada so head strong in a language that the world rarely uses?
Because the powers that be in government (not politicians but deputy ministers and senior government management) the ones that are really pulling the strings are francophone first -these people have been there since the quiet revolution as well cultured the next generation to behave the same.
How do you think forcing your language on people will win you any support?
They do not see it as forcing ,but through their sense of superiority they feel this will culture the rest of us Canadians beasts ,but it has only alienated themselves.
That french only population in Cornwall is 500 people -they are the under 3 and over 70 age group.
The FLSA has been abused and there are no checks and balances here -its like a blank check to do as they wish.
Cornwall Hospital -is the lowest of the government bilingual hiring quota systems at 50%+ -all others are much higher including the health unit at 100%.
So the majority does not have opportunities in these government entities!
LFA has always advocated for representation by population as this is fair and equitable with a measurable outcome!
French rights groups have claimed that we want to get rid of french as this plays well with their propaganda.
Cornwall is <20 % francophone so why hire beyond that -such as average 65% bilingual?
Does your employer hire 300% more employee's then needed? I think not -this is all about the politics of language!
I think the French language issue only is a method of driving attention away from the relatively poor service provided by our system.
A redirect we as Canadians all too often fall prey to.
Education is facing the same dilemma, our kids though attaining good grades are really less able to critically observe and think as a result of the system. When the system seen change was needed to receive more funding they lowered the standards, incorporated social issues and used big words like Attention deficit disorder.
We need to stay a course and resolve the real issue. Here it is the endless begging for money on a facility that has long since spent what is needed to rebuild a facility.
It is providing ever more poor services because a language issue is used as a tally to hire rather then experience, ability and attitude.
As I said before the population of non English speaking people is actually on the decline with regards to French. How did the hospital manage to keep people alive for over a hundred years with out a language requirement?
in responce to those whos arguement about the french clinic being needed because it has a waiting list. have you ever sat in the walk in clinic or the emergency room for four hours? most of these people are there because they dont have a family doctor. there would be a long waiting list for any medical practise. i can get over how wrong the concept of the clinic is but please tell me that those spaces are not being used by non senior or chronically ill people. a fluently bilingual healthy person taking one of those spots is the same as those who park in handicap parking and dont need to.
February 12, 2013 at 11:51 am
“How did the hospital manage to keep people alive for over a hundred years with out a language requirement?”
Good question? Man all those epidemics because they didn’t have enough bilingual persons-is there ever enough ?
A clinic that serves only one populace (french speaking) is still segregation .
Must I keep repeating this :How about a white only clinic ?
So people you wouldn’t except that ,but you do with french only clinics ?
There is no difference ,The government actually encourages segregation with funding these 9 french only clinics.
How is an English only clinic not segregation? Its the same as a White ONLY clinic since the whites were the majority! So an English ONLY is the exact same!
Ensuring everyone is taken care of should be the only concern of the Hospital; whether your Black, White, French or English!
Why are you not complaining about the fact that a certain number of minorities need to be hired! Would the largest minority not take some form of precedence while discussing hiring practices?
This topic has become out of hand and has lost any hope!
I never believed in the following term, since I am have closer to and I am more Anglophone, but I now know the reason the term “Tete Carree” was created!
you can never win an argument with people that have a sense of entitlement.
The fact is that Port Royal, the oldest permanent european settlement in North America (champlain) was changed to Annapolis Royal when you guessed it, the British defeated the French and all French Settlements were taken under the command of the British. Annapolis was named after Queen Anne.
Since then they have tried to win through subterfuge rather than battle.
The term “tete Carree” i was not familiar with, however i am surprised it was not moderated as having viewed it on the Urban Dictionary it is comparative to many other terms that would not be allowed in polite society or society in general.
Bilingual hiring practices are economically flawed as like many people have stated, you end up hiring people that would not be hired on merit alone. It is similar to the Chartered Banks that used to hire people for their foreign desk because they knew the capital cities of European countries.
Discussion and debate is all well and good, and usually these discussions for the most part are well argued.
Methinks that not being able to win the discussion through intellect and reasoning, the people who believe that having a bilingual policy enforceable = fair hiring practices do not have the ability to play any more.
Mud slinging does not work, but for all that i have no issue with Canada being a bilingual country, the enforcement of the language that is quantifiably in the minority, through laws that are unfair and go against reason is completely favoring the few.
Imagine what would happen if these laws became enforceable for all businesses. We would need to send for more of the kings daughters to help fill the void, and Canada would be reduced to the Albania of North America in terms of its economic output and viability.
February 12, 2013 at 7:56 pm
You know mike for someone claiming to be as smart as you “think ” you are ,you certainly have a hard time grasping at issues.
“How is an English only clinic not segregation? Its the same as a White ONLY clinic since the whites were the majority! So an English ONLY is the exact same!”
Show me a English only clinic who refuses french patients and you will certainly see the government close them down,as all services are provided to all people ,well with exception of French only clinics. The fact that no-one should be refused the French only violates the Ontario Rights code.
“Why are you not complaining about the fact that a certain number of minorities need to be hired! Would the largest minority not take some form of precedence while discussing hiring practices?”
Absolutely and the largest minority in the region is Mohawks and yes I have complained that the hospital should be hiring more Mohawks to provide their language .
Instead of all government services 65% + requiring bilingual maybe they could throw a few of their crumbs to other minority groups.
“Ensuring everyone is taken care of should be the only concern of the Hospital; whether your Black, White, French or English!”
-Absolutely Mike but they only hire The Best “bilingual “person ,not best person as hiring bilingual; automatically eliminates 80% of applicants no matter the merit as language takes precedence.
So in effect they are not hiring the best person!
Once again Mikey you are being ETHNOCENTRIC.
“This topic has become out of hand and has lost any hope!”
Yes mike you have lost the argument and therefore hope .
Myself I respect all human beings equal even though they may not have my cultural background -perhaps you could learn from that.
Mike I would never agree to eliminate french ,but the providing of those services should be reflective of the community and representation by population it is the only fair equitable way of enforcing this.
February 12, 2013 at 8:45 pm
Well said Stephen -francophones want to be treated as equals yet requests benefits that surpass equal.
Self absorbed ,yet cannot see or choose not to see the flaws this inequity creates.
Fairness ?No such thing with the present language laws.
This is but one of numerous complaints with regards to “french only ” services.
This violates the Ontario rights code.
NO one should be refused service .
FREEDOM FROM DISCRIMINATION
1. Every person has a right to equal treatment with respect to services, goods and facilities, without discrimination because of race, ancestry, place of origin, colour, ethnic origin, citizenship, creed, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, gender expression, age, marital status, family status or disability. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.19, s. 1; 1999, c. 6, s. 28 (1); 2001, c. 32, s. 27 (1); 2005, c. 5, s. 32 (1); 2012, c. 7, s. 1.
Now has a clinic ever refused a patient Because the person was french?No ! It as well would violate the rights code .
Had they refused a french person on language the Government would revoke their licence to operate and put forth and implement legislation to fully punish the institution-and rightfully so.
So why the double standard then?
Why not apply the same law to french only institutions that refuse patients
that do not speak french?
VERY Simple SEGREGATION is sanctioned by the Ontario government.
I and many others citizens demand ALL people be treated equally and our Ontario government follow the rule of the law and enforce its own rights code!
A bilingual country we are not, a country with 2 official languages we are.
I doubt very many people in these posts are anti bilingual or anti French, pro fairness sure. and that is not possible as long as we have minority rights trumping Charter Rights and laws/acts put in place to favour one small group outside of Quebec.
I for one, hate how much money is being put into the various language acts, I would rethink that if after 43 years of the OLA we saw a change in bilingual numbers, but we have not. Any “process” that forces a majority to do something as large as learn another language, is well, you can insert your own term.
Also not impressed with the way hiring processes are.
I was never bothered with the square head term, as long it made reference to the English forces in 1759, but insults just mean you ran out of ammunition.
Good morning Timmins followers,
For those of you who I have spoken to over these last few weeks about the ongoing language right’s battles unfolding before our very eyes, I would like to make you aware of some articles here on CFN and abroad.
A simple search of the following here on CFN of Cory Cameron, Eric Little, Language Fairness for All, Howard Galganov, South Stormont and South Glengarry will give you a plethora of material in which to understand what we are dealing with.
Board Member Language Fairness for All (LFA)
NOW THAT IS FUNNY!!!! OMG…..my side hurts from laughing.
Thinking if I lived outside of Cornwall, let say Newcastle, I would go to a Newcastle site and direct my followers to Cornwall Free News. This is truly funny!!! LMAO!!! hahaha!! Thanks for the laugh.
Mike, I am truly disappointed in your negative comments about Language Fairness for All. To put all your eggs in one basket is very narrow minded.
You are well aware of what LFA stands for,yet you continually bash our group. We encourage ALL languages to be an asset in terms of hiring policies.
To say ALL commenters on CFN are LFA members & are anti-french is extremely misleading to the viewers. I will reiterate our goal of fair hiring practices in our community.
I hope we can find common ground to solve this issue, but when you refer to Anglophones standing up for their rights as “tete carre” I am not sure if that is possible.
I’m hoping for open communication in hopes of a fair resolution to this problem of language discrimination.
I’ll bet if the French quit telling people they have to speak French the whole issue would blow over.
They took religion out of some schools yet we enforce languages…why?
Nobody in Canada speaks French!
I feel safer having french schools ,because no french canadian has ever attacked schools,or have a gender problem. Oh by the way Lepine was not a french canadian,nor were his parents.
Shawn, what do you think of all of this going on?
From the onset of this issue, you have continually argued that what LFA is doing is a complete waste of time……..
And yet; for all of LFA’s protests, letter writing and the like – you have always responded in kind to every letter read on CFN; moreover you have responded to every comment made from one of LFA’s members or supporters….
One cannot conclude anything but to suggest that you are also wasting your time on this issue; if in fact, as you have stated before, “this is all a waste of time”.
Are the good readers of CFN to conclude that you are indeed a complete fool for even responding to an issue or group that you feel are wasting their time?
For if the LFA membership is wasting it’s time on this issue – then therefore, you must also be wasting YOUR time on it as well by continually responding to it!
I wonder if you understand this concept or do I need to draw a diagram for you?
Silentfrancoamerican, are you saying something less than the party line on multiculturalism in Canada?
For the most part, French schools (12 boards in Ontario) take French speakers. Most newcomers do not speak French and go to English public schools, so it seems like you are saying English or non French anyway, are the evil doers and are confused sexually.