In response to a thread comment by Mike Bedard, added below.
Oh my goodness Mike Bedard, you asked if anyone at an English school would be as willing or capable of speaking French for Francophone parents. English people are allowing and even encouraging French to prosper at great expense to everyone and that comment is insulting. 97% of Ontario can speak English btw.
Many “SMART” parents, again, oh my goodness. Parents are sending their kids to French or French immersion schools for a couple of reasons. One is jobs since the number of “preconceived” careers “demands” it. Another is French immersion schools are getting better funding . Some schools as well who have many newcomers, may bring down the scholastic average since English is not the first language, and or varying culture differences can reduce the learning levels or overall effectiveness of some concepts.
I think most people know government Acts, policies and the people driving them are the problem, and associating culture with learning French, well, that would deserve a separate letter.
English people do not look at learning another language as a sign of respect, that seems to be different with Francophones though.
Mike Bedard February 7, 2013 at 12:09 am
RE: Dave, ENOUGH with the language fiasco you discredit a valid cause by adding your FLSA BS to every debate …Stop!!!
My wife and I attended an information session for Pre-Kindergarten Parents tonight and the Principals and Teachers made sure to ask if anyone could not speak French as they would speak in English for the parents!
Do you think that anyone at any English school would be as willing, or capable, of speaking French for Francophone parents?
NO they wouldn’t!
The Francophone, who are proud to help everyone learn French are NOT the problem!
Did you know that many SMART parents send their kids to French school even though they cannot speak a word of French themselves? Did you know that the French Catholic School that we attended made sure to offer additional support to those children and parents who fall into this category?
Your pre-conceived hatred due to personal issues stop you from seeing how beneficial and better we can be if our community was more cultured!
(Comments and opinions of Editorials, Letters to the Editor, and comments from readers are purely their own and don’t necessarily reflect those of the owners of this site, their staff, or sponsors.)
Mike is so misinformed,he really does need a reality check!
Hey Parents ,
(1)Do you send your children to French schools or French immersion to better your community to be “cultured”as Mike Bedard stated?
(2)Or do you send your children to French schools or French immersion to increase their chances of government employment with the ever increasing artificial demands of bilingual jobs?
I know the majority of Parents that I know send their kids for (2).
The government is by the hiring process limited those parents to that choice.
The initial intention with implementation of the FLSA and the official languages act federally was to provide services where “WARRANTED”.
Where WARRANTED does not imply that all students must learn the French language for Job opportunities within their own government.
With English parents enrolling their children into a school that is not part of their own culture for Later government job opportunities reeks of assimilation and is Social engineering.
Thanks Eric and spot on Highlander!
I completely agree with both Eric and you, Highlander.
As-a-matter of fact, I was sent to a French Immersion school with the hopes that I would become bilingual someday and would be one of the chosen ones.
It turns out I wasn’t French enough though!
Remember that “where numbers warrant”
Tell me how 21% Francophone population equals 64.8% of hires.
This is why parents do not have much of a choice but to send their children to French schools or French immersion!
http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/arp-rpa/2009/st-ts/tbl07/tbl16-eng.htm
I want to share an editorial that Human Right’s advocate Howard Galganov wrote and posted yesterday, Wednesday February 6, 2013 on his website, galganov.com. I believe his stated beliefs reflect what most of us feel in regards to this language problem. That’s right. I believe this is no longer an issue but a problem…
Howard, my hat’s off to you.
250,000 REASONS NOT TO FIGHT FOR FREEDOM . . . ONE REASON FOR
If you’re an American reading this . . . try to imagine being punished to the tune of A QUARTER OF A MILLION DOLLARS – ONLY for refusing to use a language other than English on your own PRIVATE commercial sign . . . by standing up to say NO.
FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION . . . WITH THE COURT’S PERMISSION THAT IS:
Over the past few years, with some financial help from a number of people who visit Galganov.com, with just a very few individuals with somewhat deeper pockets, and about fifty or so working-class and retired grass-roots folk who are part of a RIGHTS organization, we did our best to cover the cost of a very basic fight to preserve our MOST fundamental Freedom, which is FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION.
When I say that we did our best . . . I really mean that we did our best.
By the time the dust settled, between how much money I put-in, and what others contributed, we spent well MORE than $100,000 in a case against an insignificant Township to preserve our FREEDOM of EXPRESSION.
IN A NUTSHELL . . . a miniscule number of French Language Activists located just East of the City of Ottawa (Canada), in a Township called Russell, in collusion with an English speaking politically motivated LEFTIST Mayor, and two French speakers on his Council, passed a bylaw FORCING merchants to use FRENCH on their signs alongside English, whether the Merchants wanted to or not.
NO GUARANTEE TO FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION IN CANADA:
Canada’s Charter of Rights and Freedoms, according to Section 2b, which GUARANTEES Freedom of Expression . . . DOESN’T REALLY GUARANTEE ANYTHING. It’s a sham.
What happened in the Russell FORCED Bilingual Sign Law Case is equivalent to saying that the FIRST AMENDMENT in the American Constitution is open to Judicial interpretation on when and where the English language can be used.
THINK SPANISH AND WHAT YOUR POLITICIANS WILL BE WILLING TO SELL FOR VOTES:
I’m not writing about screaming fire in a crowded movie theater. Nor am I writing about using words to defame someone.
What I’m writing about . . . is being FORCED by the government, in this case a lowly Township, to use a language not of your own choosing, in spite of your own objections, on your own PRIVATE commercial sign (property).
There’s no debate or argument over the message of the sign . . . IT’S ONLY ABOUT THE LANGUAGE.
THIS IS NOTHING LESS THAN LINGUISTIC AFFIRMATIVE ACTION ON STEROIDS:
According to this sign-law, I am breaking the law in this community (as well as three others with similar laws) if I put up a sign that does not carry the English message in French . . . same size same message.
Therefore . . . the government is ORDERING private citizens to express themselves in ways that are AGAINST THEIR OWN FREE WILL.
BUT THERE’S MORE TO IT THAN THAT . . .
Because of French Language Activism in Canada, there is a loophole in our Constitution that allows special accommodation to the French language . . . that includes ABROGATING the Constitutional RIGHTS of English speakers.
YOU READ THAT RIGHT . . . If it favors French Speakers, English Speaker’s RIGHTS do not count; meaning that for Anglos, there is no Constitutional Guarantee to Freedom of Expression when French becomes a factor.
THE DEMOGRAPHICS ILLUSTRATE TYRANNY OF THE MINORITY:
In all of Canada, excluding the French Separatist and linguistic racist ethnocentric Province of Quebec, there are ONLY 3% of the population who consider themselves to be French Speakers.
But, unless you can pass a French proficiency exam, which just about all Anglos CANNOT, it is nearly impossible to get a job working anywhere in the country for the federal government.
How’s that for linguistic discrimination at the hands of a 3% minority?
Ontario is about 4% French. And of those 4%, most of them live in small French communities scattered throughout the province, with a preponderance living within an hour of the National Capital (Ottawa), and the border to the Ethnocentric English-Hating French Province of Quebec, where the unrestricted use of the English language is AGAINST the law.
And of that 4% – just about 100% speak English . . . so why the problem?
Because a small town Mayor (Ken Hill) with political dreams of grandeur decided to pass a bylaw usurping the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, for no purpose other than to make a few French TRIBALISTS feel good about themselves, and possibly give himself the French vote in a larger political context, the Court Costs awarded AGAINST me are $250,000 because we lost.
BUT HOW CAN ANYONE LOSE FIGHTING FOR FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION?
These costs include our first loss at Superior Court, where the self-declared French Activist Judge Monique Metivier said in Court; that even though the Russell Bylaw violated Freedom of Expression, it was the RIGHT THING TO DO.
The cost also included the THREE Judges of the Ontario Court of Appeal who said the same thing. IT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.
And then there’s the cost for the Activist Supreme Court of Canada, which refused to hear our APPEAL, even though this bylaw and various other challenges we made to the Supreme Court in our request for LEAVE, actually violated their own jurisprudence.
Even though all the Judges agreed that it was the RIGHT THING TO DO, not one of them said why and how it’s supported by the Constitution . . . And here is where it gets really serious:
CANADA HAS A NEW LANGUAGE LAW . . . AND NO ONE KNOWS IT:
Because the Supreme Court refused to hear our appeal . . . this linguistically racist bylaw against the English majority in just one community, introduced by a pissant mayor and council, all of whom were defeated in the follow-up election . . . IS NOW THE LAW OF CANADA.
WHERE WAS THE MEDIA?
Canada’s media can teach LEFTIST journalism to most American News Providers. How scary is that?
If any issue casts a shadow of doubt on the BIG CANADIAN LIE, that Canada is a bilingual country, which is as far removed from the truth as you can possibly get, the Canadian media stays as far away from it as they can . . . as if it was the plague.
I used the headline – 250,000 REASONS NOT TO FIGHT FOR FREEDOM, because it’s true.
Ask yourself this . . . Why would anyone want to fight a battle for the FREEDOM of some thirty-three million people who are lost in a fog, and wouldn’t so much as lift a finger to defend themselves or contribute to their own defense?
FOR ME – THE ANSWER IS SIMPLE . . . Even though there were 250,000 reasons for me NOT to have done this, there is only one reason that I did.
IT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO BECAUSE THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR FREEDOM.
Young men and women . . . and not so young men and women have fought, and are still fighting all over this planet for the FREEDOMS of others, while in our own countries (the USA and Canada), people take our FREEDOMS for granted.
We allow our politicians, nameless and faceless bureaucrats, and ACTIVIST JUDGES to nibble away at our FREEDOMS everyday, as if our FREEDOMS are mere suggestions opposed to ironclad guarantees.
I TOOK A $250,000 BEATING – BUT I DIDN’T DIE. AND I WASN’T WOUNDED.
My father, as a young Canadian landed on the shores of Sicily, before the D-DAY Invasion. He was wounded at the Battle of Casino, but fought-on nonetheless. He was decorated and mentioned in dispatches many times. And was awarded the Bronze Lion by her Majesty Queen Wilhelmina of the Netherlands FOR BRAVERY ABOVE AND BEYOND THE CALL OF DUTY.
My dad fought in Italy, the Netherlands, Belgium, France and Germany. And like MILLIONS of brave soldiers who fought all over the world so the world could be FREE, he did it not because he was forced to, and not because there was some kind of reward at the end of the war . . . BUT BECAUSE IT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.
How do you compare living under the daily threat of mutilation or death in war, to being whacked for a Quarter of Million Dollars by lawyers who profit in the DEATH of Constitutional FREEDOMS?
THERE IS NO COMPARISON . . . And like my dad who fought-on with a bandaged shrapnel wound to his head at Monte Casino . . . I DON’T QUIT EITHER.
It is obvious that we cannot win in the Courts, where Freedom is what the Judges have decided Freedom should be. But, WE CAN WIN IN THE COURT OF PUBLIC OPINION, where Freedom MUST be more than just a suggestion.
Whether you’re a Canadian or an American . . . you have a duty to yourself and to your country to get into the fight. Because, if you accept that your Freedoms should be open to the interpretation of the government and Courts, then you don’t deserve to enjoy the FREEDOMS other people bled and died for you to have.
I DON’T HAVE $250,000 . . . And this loss is not without real personal consequences for me. But I would do it all over again. ACTUALLY, I have no intention whatsoever of slowing down, let alone stopping, and not just about language.
If ONE FREEDOM is under attack . . . all of our FREEDOMS are under attack, and I will not stand silent or passive. To the LEFT, the RIGHTS of Government over the RIGHTS of the INDIVIDUAL have long been an International Conspiracy.
OUR GLOBAL DEFENSE FOR INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM AND LIBERTIES MUST BE NO LESS.
So, when I ask visitors to Galganov.com from time to time to help out financially, you can now see why.
And if I care enough about all of our FREEDOMS to have laid my fiscal life on the line, the least people can do who enjoy reading my editorials is care a bit too.
The mark of success is not in winning, since winning can be defined in a million ways.
REAL SUCCESS . . . is fighting against a much greater foe knowing that you probably won’t win, but getting into the fight nonetheless, because it is the right thing to do. And no matter how much of a pounding you take . . .
YOU NEVER GIVE UP – AND YOU NEVER STOP . . . NO MATTER HOW TOUGH IT GETS.
Best Regards . . . Howard Galganov
Excellent response Eric!!!!!! Yep, my child is not in a French immersion program because he/she has to be, it’s because if we want to live in Ontario, thus eventually work in Ontario, we are FORCED to support the 3% Francophone population and their demands.
By the way, yes the French Catholic school board does have more funding but it does NOT fully support the English. My child has a tutor and we pay OUT OF OUR OWN POCKET FOR THIS.
Doesn’t seem to make any sense now does it!!!!!!
Oh yes and forget the fact that since our child’s parents are both only BASIC level French, even after taking college French as a second language, we cannot help with homework. We also don’t know what the hell is being said when we go to Christmas recitals, help out at the school or even in helping them prepare for the sacraments. That in itself is a crying shame.
The teacher I must say are great and very supportive. But putting families through this for the WRONG REASON is not acceptable. Can we not just enroll our children in French programs because we want to enrich their lives rather than have it shoved down our throats?
My child has played a game on a monthly basis at her school. Maybe yours has played it as well. Each day the teacher gives the children 2 tickets. If one child catches another speaking English they call them on it and takes a ticket away from the child that spoke English. The one from each class that collects the most tickets wins a prize each month and their name is published in the monthly newsletter. How warped is that?!?!?
Mike’s sparky little spirit will become inflamed at this protest by you guys. Wait till we hear his over the top, if he can reach that high, rebuttal of nonsense and family stories. HAHA!
Mike Bedard, are you implying that the French culture is superior to the other cultures of Canada? English-speakers represent many cultures and the English language allows the expression of many cultures in Canada. If you think that French Immersion or French-language schools are popular because it disseminates the French language & culture, your thinking is deeply flawed. The social engineering agenda of Pierre Trudeau has over-valued the French language & culture and without massive funding from the Federal, Provincial & Municipal governments, NOBODY would bother sending their children to F.I. or All-French school. By forcing the policy of bilingualism on all public service jobs, French-speakers are over represented. This despicable social engineering policy is totally responsible for the poor quality of our public servants who are hired, not because they are the best qualified or the most experienced, it is because they can function in a language spoken by 22% of all Canadians. Actually only 12% of Canadians are fully bilingual (according to Jack Jedwab of the Asso. of Canadian Studies) and the last census reports that 17% of Canadians are self-assessed as bilingual. With such a low percentage of bilingual applicants to pick from, no wonder the quality of our public servants are so poor!!!
Right on the money Kim. You are 100% correct!
I am thinking back to my graduating nursing class, “several” years ago. CCH hired all of the 6 or 7 grads that were bilingual and left out the Anglophones. Most of the bilingual nurses had marks in the low 70s, you needed a 70 just to pass. The Anglophones that graduated with 90s were overlooked. That’s ok, because Ottawa and the USA were the winners from my class. My marks were in the high 80s and yes I headed out to Ottawa at the time as well.
Like Kim said, keep choosing from that small pool of French candidates and you will more often than not have to settle for poorer quality.
With all due respect to Mike (.08% by the sound of his rants) it it should be understood that, anyone that poses questions and then answers them himself, and thinks that he has made a valid point, as he does with…
“Do you think that anyone at any English school would be as willing, or capable, of speaking French for Francophone parents?
NO they wouldn’t!”
…Well it’s just delusional.
So considering the source, one oughtn’t waste breath or pen on this character.
Yep Eric……I love a man with balls!! Doesn’t Mike have a right to his opinion?
Did you know that many SMART parents send their kids to French school even though they cannot speak a word of French themselves? YES….in the long run, it will pay off like it has for many Canadians.
Highlander wrote: Where WARRANTED does not imply that all students must learn the French language for Job opportunities within their own government.
piper you forgot to add that in a country that has two official languages, FRENCH and english…..like Mike said, it is the smart thing to do. The student will benefit and have more opportunities.
Galganov says: But, unless you can pass a French proficiency exam, which just about all Anglos CANNOT, it is nearly impossible to get a job working anywhere in the country for the federal government.
Thinking that is not quite accurate folks and somewhat exagerated.
the g again states: the border to the Ethnocentric English-Hating French Province of Quebec, where the unrestricted use of the English language is AGAINST the law.
I have friends who live in Montreal that are unilingual english and have no problems whatsoever……again somewhat exgerated.
Kim wrote: This despicable social engineering policy is totally responsible for the poor quality of our public servants who are hired, not because they are the best qualified or the most experienced,
Hmmm, interesting! Pray tell…..can you please tell us how you come to that conclusion? How one can determine another’s competency if they are not involved in the hiring process?
If any issue casts a shadow of doubt on the BIG CANADIAN LIE, that Canada is a bilingual country, which is as far removed from
the truth as you can possibly get, again the g
This country has TWO OFFICIAL LANGUAGES FOLKS……FRENCH and english……I guess it is safe to Canada is a bilingual country.
The g forgot to include SG and why he lost his language fight there. You see folks….why create language issues where there are no problems to begin with. It seems the english freedom fighters are not happy where peace already reigns.
Well Mike, let me tell you what the very French teacher said when I visited the high school of choice for my children. An English Public School strongly promoting the French Immersion Program. “Do you mind Mr….Principal, if I say that students in the immersion program tend to be the better student” Now I had with me, my child, who graduated from grade eight as a high achiever from the Core program. Of course I was insulted by this remark but I have to tell you when it was high school graduation day I was one proud mom. I have never regretted making that choice for my children. The English Core Program was ideal, my children were proud of their school, they were secure and confident, they didn’t have to wait a few years to learn a language to get started on an education. Of course it would be great if they learned French along the way but not at the expense of an education.
Usually mike has valid points, but I take offence to his comment “smart parents enrolled their kids in French”
Smart parents expect their kids to be smart, and. Smart is not determined by the ability to speak a language of a country and people that do well of the coat tails of the victors
Think in Canada plains of Abraham, think in Europe 1919
The ability of Germany to grow into a nearly world beating force, that the British and the Canadians held off until the us decided that it might be a good idea to join in, was linked to the anger that ordinary Germans felt for the capitulators that were able to seek reparations for standing by and letting the kaiser and his troops overrun their country
While this will not take place in Canada, eventual the victors will find a way to ensure that the francophones know where their place is in the table of winners and losers and they will come to realize that eventually the will of a people will turn and the variant of French that is unintelligible by real French speaking nations will become a footnote in Canadian history
Smart kids will put French to the side and focus on subjects that matter. This in turn will move them into positions where the government as it currently does will ensure that the skillet is more important than the ability to speak guttural French.
That is the way it works at present when you are at a level that ensures the government want and need what you bring to the table
So my advice to smart parents is forget the (MODERATED) and ensure your princess or prince has the essential skills in the form of reading, writing and arithmetic
That is what smart parents do, not so smart parents ensure their kids have French and this will ensure they can get an additional 50 cents an hour
Mike why wouldn’t the French teacher speak English to the English Parent, is this not the drive of the French School Boards of Ontario, to lure the English child..
Mike Bedard you are NOT French but Metis like the rest of the Acadien, Canadien and Kebecois. So stop talking about the French language agen Joual (French patois) is your REAL mother-tongue. If you do not stop I will have to escort to the reservation where your mother comes from.
You may want to out on some face pain for the occasion.
I hope that you will heed to my request and leave immediately.
stellabystarlight February 7, 2013 at 7:07 pm
Feeling alone here stella? Because you represent in representation people that agree to to mandatory bilingualism.
So all these people are wrong and your right ..hmmmmm who needs the right medication here?
@Sick of Stupidity RE: POST ON February 7, 2013 at 3:31 pm
–
Sick of Stupidity wrote, “My child has played a game on a monthly basis at her school. Maybe yours has played it as well. Each day the teacher gives the children 2 tickets. If one child catches another speaking English they call them on it and takes a ticket away from the child that spoke English. The one from each class that collects the most tickets wins a prize each month and their name is published in the monthly newsletter. How warped is that?!?!?”
–
“if one child catches” another speaking English. Oh my…
–
What school is this ? Where is this insane subtle type of social engineering going on ?
We need FI
because we believe
we NEED French
We then suddenly — DO NEED — French
because we BELIEVED
we needed French.
What a sneaky, vicious, awful game
they have played on the good people of this country.
TO think Quebec accuses the rest of Canada of ethnocide.
Now with governments demanding bilingual is that not ethnocide,people are loosing their ethnicity as the demand for French takes precedence.
@ edudyorlik
This game is happening at Ecole St. Lucie.
I must say though that the teachers are excellent and they all communicate with me in English. It is just the game that is so wrong. It teaches that English is a “no-no”!
As a follow up comment…
This is a way to positively reinforce kids speaking the French language, rather than negatively reinforce speaking English. Kinda of a sneaky way to get away with it. I am sure that this type of game in some form exists at most, if not all of the French schools here in Cornwall. It is just NOT right.
So our children are being encouraged to spy on each other – doesn’t that remind you of Nazism when children were encouraged to spy on their own family? To think that we are actually allowing this awful practice to occur without any complaints from parents shows you how much we have accepted the supremacy of a small “tribe” speaking that language. What a shame!!!
As for people like Stella, her lack of logic in her statements makes me ignore what she says – I don’t argue with people like that – total waste of time.
Of course if a child is attending a french school, they must speak french in the school yard…….HELLO!! Not complicated…..LOL
WHY must french be spoken? Because if it’s a french school **smile**
If they allowed students to talk english how will they learn french? Not complicated…..
stellabystarlight, similar “games” are found in French immersion schools as well. Of course that stops FI kids from communicating and playing with their friends who struggle in French or who are in the English stream.
stellabystarlight
February 11, 2013 at 5:00 pm
“Of course if a child is attending a french school, they must speak french in the school yard…….HELLO!! Not complicated…..LOL”
“WHY must french be spoken? Because if it’s a french school ”
**smile**
So a child that is enrolled in an English school should not be permitted to speak french to a friend in a school yard either ?
HELLO” FREEDOM OF SPEECH “which is enshrined in the charter of rights ,but in the interest of (french bilingualism) its alright to violate freedom of speech.
So your argument could be said :In English school, a French child is not permitted to speak French to another in the schoolyard?
Is that what your saying ?
I guess you interpret freedom of speech differently then the charter.
****************smile*********************
Cheers to Kenneths post
He stated it very well, there is no real french here it is merely Franglais a watered down version of what it use to be.
That is why France has no support for Quebec, they want everything as they feel it should be, a culture all to their own.
piper wrote: So a child that is enrolled in an English school should not be permitted to speak french to a friend in a school yard either ?……get real piper.
again piper in his wisdom wrote: So your argument could be said : In English school, a French child is not permitted to speak French to another in the schoolyard?
Is that what your saying ?
OMG…unbelievable!! When attending a French school, French, is spoken in the school. Is that too complicated? As it was posted 1,000 times before, english is much easier to speak and write. That being said it is to the child’s benefit while at school to speak French because many times, when out of school, the conversations turns to english.
What would be the purpose of sending a child to a french school if they talk english all the time? Isn’t it to learn French? Now do you get it? **smirk**