CORNWALL Ontario – One of Cornwall Ontario’s most successful lawyers, Andre Bourgon of Bourgon Law, has offered his assistance to Kristopher & Clayton Cadieux after the city served the family with a threat of fines of $240 per day if the boys continued to sell worms from their 2nd Street West home in Riverdale.
The boys plight went National after CFN broke the story yesterday.
The family was bewildered and upset after getting a written order from the city and it has impacted their ability to save up for a bike.
Reached at his office Mr. Bourgon said that he’d vigorously challenge the validity of the bylaw if the city pursued the matter.
The story has lit up across social media and news outlets across Canada with CTV interviewing the family while we called to get our update.
The family has spoke with a few city officials and Councilor Justin Towndale who also spoke with CFN earlier this afternoon.
This writer sent a letter to council asking them to lay down enforcement of the bylaw for 90 days while a new by law could be drafted that would deal with seasonal sellers or service.
Councilor Towndale stated that there were two areas of concern; the use of commercial signs on a residential property and of the operation of a “business” from a residence.
The boys parents operate a sign company which could have led to some of the confusion over their lovely signs.
Loading ...Local media have started to catch up with Todd Lihou of the TC Media owned Seaway News appearing to rip n write based on our story while getting facts wrong.
“A neighbour had complained to city hall, suggesting signs advertising the sale of worms (by children no less) contravene a municipal bylaw prohibiting commercial sales on a residential property.”
Um, we do not know if it’s a neighbor. There is speculation that has not been confirmed that a worm retailer that had offered the kids .50 cents per dozen (and then sells them for $5.00) may have fingered them.
“Of course the city is within its rights to send the family a notice suggesting if the signs aren’t removed fines of $240 a day will be on their way. The signs are breaking the rules”
Generally if you’re going to cite a rule you should link to it. As well rules have to be evenly enforced. You can’t pick on a handful of people while letting others not be punished.
“Perhaps it would have been better to meet with the family, or give them a call, and advise them of the rules and that a complaint had been filed.”
If Mr. Lihou had actually practiced journalism and contacted the family he would have discovered that they in fact did speak with the by law officer which is how they found out that their seven year old could not sell Lemonade either. Does the Claude MacIntosh school of journalism still cut it in 2015?
“Most of the time an officer will simply have a chat with the players and the game will be moved to a park…case closed.”
Really? No street hockey either?
The one thing Mr. Lihou and I will agree with is that this is another PR nightmare for a city that cannot afford self inflicted wounds.
There is an easy solution to this mess.
The Mayor & Council announce that they will not be issuing any $240 fines while they either come up with a new by law or sort this out so that no other local children or seniors get hassled for worm selling, lemonade selling or gosh knows what else.
We cannot afford any more Monaco Crescents or Wormgates.
What do you think Canada? You can post your comments below.
UPDATE
Councilor Justin Towndale posted this on his facebook page.
I have an update regarding the sale of worms by the Cadieux children. As of this morning, it was determined by our zoning department (who issued the notice) that the children can keep selling worms, so long as they sell them inside the house, and without a sign out front. This isn’t a perfect solution, but it is a temporary one that will work while we fix the problem. At the very least, the kids will be able to keep selling worms without any penalty.
I’ve spoken to a few of my Council colleagues and we are working on a way to fix the issue permanently so that kids can sell worms and lemonade outside again. I met with the City Clerk this morning to figure out the quickest way to move forward with this. I hate to say it, but it might take a few weeks to get it all sorted out because of procedural by-laws and rules in place. Believe me, it frustrates me that we can’t work faster. It would be great if we could snap our fingers and change the by-law overnight, but unfortunately, we can’t.
I am still working on this, and waiting for some folks to get back to me, so there will be more updates coming. The goal is to still get the kids back outside, and to let them stay there permanently. For right now, worms are still for sale, and there will not be a fine or penalty imposed.
If you would like some worms, I would recommend heading over to see the Cadieux children at 1101 Second Street West. I’d usually be reluctant to give out someone’s address but I think that it might be okay in this case.
UPDATE
Mr. Robert Cadieux, the boys father, said that he didn’t feel comfortable bringing people into the family home.
The Cadieux kids’ parents are right. Customers needn’t be in their home. A cooler on the porch is perfect. As for the sign issue, it’s crazy, but maybe the family could just post “yard sale.” Everyone knows about the worms because of CFN
Who runs this pathetic city? The gong show is back.
Let the kids sell their worms. They are just trying to earn a little bit of money. Lighten up people.
Sorry but I feel instead of releasing press release on this issue Justin should work on more complex problems like jobs children will have a city to return to after University to decent full time jobs.They all need to stop grandstanding at get Cornwall on the map for more than hockey rinks and worms.
TALKING ABOUT WORMS
Billie Kingston.over at Newswatch, recently implied my buddies grandmother was posting Fake Photos on his Facebook site. Guess granny took photo on a Monday but in posting her comment wrote Tuesday mixing up the days. When billie jumped in and said…”It’s Monday not Tuesday”..The elderly lady panicked and removed the photo.
A reader questioning the missing photo.
This fake reporter at NUTswatch proudly wrote the photo was taken down when he “proved” it had been taken earlier.
Newswatch did the wrong thing jumping to conclusions
LOL now grannie has sworn off ever posting photos online since this SENIOR CITIZEN MUGGIN BY billy kingston.
Proving he is not a news guy…all the comments have disappeared.
I’m happy to see at least one Councillor (Towndale) attempting to do the proper thing ! Not much leadership here ! Good for you Andre, for standing up for the kids ! Doesn’t this story remind you of the “MIACLE ON 34TH STREET” ? lol
small minded city mis-leaders
I support the entrepreneurship of that family.. I support anything that a family will teach their children that will spring good values.
This city is showing that kids can’t be honest and forthright with this actual bylaw.Their sign is not legal.OK! Now the kids will have to learn to play the game , learn the rules and juggle with the gray areas.., just like good politicians. THEY HAVE JUST LEARN LESSON NO.1
For many years as long as I can remember of my 64 years alive on this insane planet and especially a town as wacky and insane as Cornwall I have never seen a by-law that stops people from selling worms and lemonade stands. Every time we go to Cornwall we see the signs everywhere about worms for sale. I truly can say that Leslie and his worm head council need to resign pronto. All this is laughable because they have all breathed in too much of the poisonous chemicals from Domtar and Courthaulds where they are all literally “brain dead retarded”. No family with an ounce of intelligence will live in Cornwall. Leslie has made himself a laughing stock of the town and much more so that what happened under BOB which was bad enough. This mayor and council is so mighty laughable that would make a huge travesty to the Andy Griffith Show which portrayed a wholesome lifestyle on TV. Oh yes there are some good people in Cornwall and I bet that many are putting their heads down in shame of living in such an insane town. All young people out there remember what happened and leave town when you reach the legal age. Don’t bury yourselves in such an insane place. I have never regreted one minute of leaving the insanity of that town. If kids cannot pick worms or sell lemonade then what should happen is to ban delivering newspapers, etc. to peoples doors. Cornwall is literally an insane assylum and a good thing that I left a long time ago for much better. God Help Everyone who lives in Cornwall.
I am sitting here and laughing about another thing that happened before in Cornwall and thought that I would throw something rediculous in as well. The time that Syd Gardner tore up signs that people worked on – well Leslie might send Syd over to that house and tear up the kids lemonade stand and signs about worms for sale. I would love to see something like this happen where it would make headlines throughout Canada, the US and the world. Cornwall is mighty sick and deserves to be a humoungous mental institution the way they act. I don’t know whether to laugh, scream or cry. I am very ashamed to be from Cornwall and mighty ashamed that I supported a mighty insane person like Leslie to be mayor. I learned more and more about the goings on in our world and all the evils today and I can vouch that I will never ever vote ever again. I know way too much and want no part of this demonic world.
I am ashamed to be part of this city. Its a joke! I was born & raised here, but i hate to admit it anymore. People need to get on with their lives & stop worrying about what their neighbors are doing! Really….ratting out 2 kids for selling worms….seriously! Don’t you have anything better to do with your time? Or do you spend your days & nites looking out your windows like some paranoid crackhead!
Jules….those signs you see are from a legitimate business, very different from three kids selling from their front lawn.
And please change the CD, it’s getting boring.
This is by no means a defense for the enforcement of the by-law. I am in agreement with the 99.9% of people who think it’s ridiculous that a kid’s efforts to make a few bucks by picking and selling worms gets shut down by the city. However, I do want to defend the name my city is getting. This type of nonsense is happening all over North america.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/11/politics/lemonade-stand-shut-down-texas
http://www.lemonadefreedom.com/
Common sense appears to be going extinct in more cities than just Cornwall!
Thank you Jean Beasceau. It was hard getting people to see, in most cases, Cornwall is just like any other city.
Hugger even if those were legitimate signs made by the parents who gives a care about that. Even if the parents themselves were selling worms with the help of their kids worms are free in the ground for all to pick. I personally do not touch worms, etc. but if I am wacky enough to go outside and water the grass and start picking worms at night who is to stop me. I would really look wacky here since I am in a high rise building but any kind of weird thing can happen. Getting serious here this is rediculous. If you knew what was going on in the US now you would all be mighty shocked and this is no place to talk about it but I want no part of their insanity. One of my daughter’s co-workers just left for good to the US because she has her family down there and she is from Eastern Europe and we hugged her and she took our e-mails to get in touch with her. I told her that after a time she will be back here in Canada. You will all hear things as time goes on and it isn’t good at all. I wonder what would happen if I were to go out in the property or in the park and start picking worms here – would I be arrested or put in the Royal Ottawa Hospital – this is utterly rediculous.
Hey Bedford!!! …”Leave them Kids alone.”
The signs I referred to were for the legitimate business selling worms, Lucky Worms, not the kids sidewalk operation.
Was it the guy from Lucky Worms that complained?
You never know who complains to bylaw. We had a complaint against us last year. I asked who complained. But they are not allowed to disclose that info.
So what’s worse… kids selling some worms from out the door on their own property, or worms that are packed in their own crap and rotting vegetable matter and sold alongside food and drinks in a store?
Re: Jules and her last two rants.
These are her quotes verbatim:
” of my 64 years alive on this insane planet and especially a town as WACKY and INSANE as Cornwall”
“THEY have ALL breathed in too much of the poisonous chemicals from Domtar and Courtaulds where THEY are ALL literally “BRAIN DEAD AND RETARDED” ”
” NO FAMILY with an ounce of intelligence will live in Cornwall.”
“I have never regretted one minute of leaving the INSANITY of that town (Cornwall) ”
” Cornwall is literally an INSANE ASYLUM.”
“God Help Everyone who lives in Cornwall.”
“Cornwall is MIGHTY SICK and DESERVES to be a HUMUNGOUS MENTAL INSTITUTION in the way THEY act.”
And the last one:
” I know WAY TOO MUCH and want NO PART of this DEMONIC WORLD””
OMG!!!!!!
Is there anything positive here?
You are the only person who comments in this manner, and I for one, am sick and tired of being bullied by you and all of your slanderous name calling!
I live in this city and I am not what you say I am. I have dignity and intelligence and I do not want this name calling to continue.
Did you ever think that maybe, just maybe, some people are glad that you moved away from our beautiful city only because they were tired of hearing you call us bad names.
I would love to hear you say these things, to my face, because then I would have you arrested for harassment.
You maybe 64 years old, but you sure don’t know much about social graces.
PLEASE STOP lumping us all into one basket, and STOP BULLYING us!
You should be sent to the principal’s office for very bad behaviour and bad manners.
If you know so much then you should realize that we ( Cornwallites ) are tired of hearing you say over and over again that we are STUPID, UNINTELLIGENT, INSANE, CRAZY, RIDICULOUS AND BRAIN DEAD AND RETARDED!! Are there any that I missed?
Thank you for your attention in this matter.
Don’t get ambitious in the soviet of Cornwall.
Miss Steak @ July 30, 2015 at 8:01 am
Thank you!!! Myself and others have been trying to get that message across for a very long time.
Miss Steak you haven’t lived outside of Cornwall to see how rediculous that you all look and believe me Cornwall is no place for anyone normal to live in. I thank God that I left a long time ago and never to live there again. Cornwall is a joke throughout the country and that is the truth. You all deny children of skating on a hand made rink by two wonderful parents who are teachers just because it is in a residential area. Well I live in a residential area as well like your RIVERDALE and people are down to earth here. I hate snobbery and taking good things away from kids. At least those kids are not playing ball or hockey on the streets where they would be a much bigger disturbance than being in their own yards. This worm and lemonade selling is rediculous of hurting these children and their parents. Hiring a lawyer is going to take tons of money and they willl be robbed in every way. You people in Cornwall are nuts and nuttier than a fruitcake. I even told my medical doctor about Cornwall and believe me I have him a mighty good laugh for the day and said that is how wacky they are down there and ever since we came back to Ottawa my kids who are adults have become the better. I will continue to find fault and laugh to my heart’s content about the people of Cornwall and believe me that will never stop at all.
Jules to be fair the public clearly supported the Vincent family and the Cadieux’s. I have a hunch that the public will remember exactly which elected officials stood up for Cornwall family’s in the next election; especially if they’re reminded….
We get it…..you don’t like Cornwall. Does the same message have to be repeated in a lot of your comments Over and over again?
I guess you just don’t get the fact that you are insulting us and degrading us. I guess this makes you much better than us folk who live here and try to survive in this “insane asylum”
So please forgive me for ranting a little. Please stop calling us names as we know that we can never attain your status . Love you too!!
The counsellor who stood up for the Cadieux family was none other than Justin and I can’t remember his surname but starts with a T. Justin lives in Toronto as well and knows what life is all about. I have had good feelings about this young man from the start and he was on my list of hoping that he would get in as counsellor. People who have not lived outside of wacky daffy Cornwall know absolutely nothing about what the rest of the cities and countries are all about. When a family has to go and hire a lawyer that costs a ton of money to help support their kids efforts on wanting a bike but has to earn it – my heart is all out for the Cadieux family teaching their kids the right way along with the teachers on Monico Crescent for trying their very best to make a skating rink in their yard to keep their kids safe. When my kids were little we lived in apartment buildings here in Ottawa and they were caged up but I took them to parks, libraries, etc. and I was there the whole time whether in terrible sweltery weather like what we have and the very cold so as they would be protected against the evils of society. Just about every day my children talk about those days of the sacrifices that I made and quit my government job to stay home with them. I give high praise to the Cadieux family and the teachers who made the ice rink last Christmas – all the praise and very best to these families. I know the house where the Cadieux family lives because it used to belong to a former bus driver in Cornwall that my husband and I used to joke a lot with and he used to tease me so much about marrying my husband. Those were the good days of Cornwall but no longer at all whatsoever. The vast majority of the people of Cornwall are lost entirely because the town hall has them all by a certain appendige that I cannot name here. I feel sorry for the young people because there is no future in Cornwall and they all have to leave. All the young people reading when you are 18 years old leave Cornwall and go to universities and colleges in other cities and make a good life for yourselves. Cornwall has been dying since 1959 and it is a year that I will not forget.
Sorry… what were we talking about? Oh yeah, over the top by-law enforcement…
So anyway, apparently city council noticed what’s going on, and they have a point-man (Towndale) who says that the solution is to make the children allow strangers into their home, and that maybe next year (Next Year!!?!!?), council can work out the by-law mess (or maybe by then this will have blown over).
Well dear councillors, and city managers… You have taken a situation that put Cornwall in a positive light — that is, Cornwall is the kind of community where kids can sell worms off their porch, using the honour system no less — and you have shown yourselves to be backward, useless, and mindless toward the greater community that cares about our children and knows how to apply common sense.
Let’s fix this and quit sniping at each other. Our kids, letting them grow, and the future of our city is most important.
Let’s get a few things straight.
Justin Towndale lives in Cornwall, not Toronto.
I get the impression the lawyer is doing the work “pro bono.”, not at a cost to the Cadieux family. It wouldn’t make sense to spend thousands of dollars to defend the kids rights to sell worms and / or lemonade.
But what do we know? We live in Cornwall we must be dumb, uneducated buffoons according to those who live in bigger cities.
Nuttier than a squirrel turd
Miss Steak in the words of one of the most famous movies of all times: “Frankly Scarlett I don’t give a damn.” Clark Gable to Vivien Leigh
Twice that the chicken hawk Leslie strkes good people twice and runs away and not one word out of his mouth – not one. Many people will not vote for Leslie ever again. When you do horrible things to good people it comes back to haunt. Last Christmas Leslie played the role of Scrooge and he sure made quite a good performance – Leslie take a bow for that role. With the Cadieux family this is another blow and Leslie take another bow and to your worm head administration. I have not seen anything more laughable in all my life is the way good people are treated in Cornwall aka Dodge City, aka Fossoli. All that counts in Cornwall is the archaic clique and nothing else. If people wanted to join clubs they are shunned away and never to be heard from again. That is your Cornwall and stop sticking your heads in the sand and denying the truth.
The continual put-down of Cornwall and its residents could be seen as bullying. I wonder…………..
Hugger Justin has a condo in Toronto and does live there at times. I remember listening to him one day here on the net and Jamie was in the group along with councellor MacDonald.
A.B.J. That’s my policy for reading comments on CFN.
That is.. “Anybody But Jules”. Life is to short to waist it on such drivel. 😉
Actually no it couldn’t hugger. There is no possible way Jules, a retired senior in Ottawa, is bullying our fine residents. While I may not agree with many of her opinions, that’s exactly what they are, opinions and everyone may have one even if some are crazier than others. Rolf Rolf that 🙂
Hugger1 …regarding your statement that it would not make sense to defend kids rights.
This is not personally directed your way but rather to all of us.
If we equate doing what is right based on monetary cost then we are lost. You can no more put a cost on rights than you can put a price on human life. Situations similar to this that so obviously bipass common sense deserve all our efforts. Admin has many times made reference to people being able to make a difference. If we as a people do not unite to send a strong message to council to rectify this situation immediately then we have not supported one another nor represented what the word community means. Apathy I would suggest is the biggest enemey of a nation and the reason for problems such as this. People so often view situations as not their problem when in fact by not supporting each other we ultimately each pay the price.
What would you pay to protect your rights? Many can recount brothers, sisters, relatives and friends who died in wars for the greater good and to protect the rights of others. Really if people do not stand up regardless of cost then we should be embarrassed as a community. This kind of nonsense is draining the life blood of this community and constructing a dome of shame which overshadows us all.
Thank you to Andre Bourgon for stepping up to the plate. We should all rally to support a man whose is not intimidated by a system that is in such a state that children seliing worms are targeted with such ridiculous threats by an overzealous bureacracy.
So, he owns a condo in Toronto. So, what? The last time I checked it wasn’t a crime to own a condo elsewhere. At least he’s concerned about the residents of Cornwall, unlike some other councilors.
“Opinions”, as you like to call them Admin can be seen IMHO as bullying if it is done on a continual basis as some do. And I’m not just referring to Jules. But this is your baby, so you make the rules. I prefer to call them continual putdowns of a fine city.
David Oldham….once again my comments get misinterpreted. Isn’t the internet a wonderful place? If Andre Bourgon hadn’t stepped up “pro-bono” do you think the parents would be willing to pay the bill to fight city hall? At some point common sense has to prevail on both sides. Hopefully an amicable solution can be found. But is putting an age limit on a specific bylaw the way to go? That could be seen as age discrimination. And then you open up (sorry for the pun) a whole different can of worms.
What about the poor worms? Every life is unique and precious! Nobody should have the right to .kidnap these innocent beings and sell them for a profit. They almost all are condemned to a horrible death by being skewered on a hook and thrown into the water to drown! How cruel is that?
!
Furtz, Furtz, Furtz….. 🙂
Bernadette Clement’s law degree is worth toilet paper… thanks for helping City Council bring itself into disrepute and saddling us with the cost of a losing case against a couple of child entrepreneurs.
De Minimis Non Curat Lex: a common law principle whereby judges will not sit in judgment of extremely minor transgressions of the law.
Check out the jurisprudence on this type of case…
http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictionary/D/DeMinimisNonCuratLex.aspx
Ok, lets look at these things. The city has reduced the number of outdoor rinks in the city yet stop kids from making one of their own. Kids want to sell lemonade but are stopped because of an outdated silly bylaw. Young boys are told to stop selling earth worms because one, they were conducting business in a residential area and two, their sign was too good and now just the other day someone in the city complained that a man’s parrot was too noisy during the day. What’s next are bylaw officers going to complain to South Stormont about the excessive noise coming from the speedway. Will bylaw officers be shutting down the Canada celebrations because it violates the excessive noise bylaw? Will there be a massive hunt for those holding yard sales (yes it is illegal to post yard sale signs on posts), will everyone who holds a yard sale be fined for running a business in a residential area?
What has this city, my home, come to? Frivolous complaints being lodged against kids for trying their best to earn some money to get something they want. Congrats to the parents for teaching their children responsibility and showing them that if you want something you have to earn it and not expect a handout.
In the article there was mention that it “might” be a company that sells worms who ratted the kids out, if so I hope CFN investigates further and keeps us all informed.
As for City Council, get off your lazy behinds and get this situation resolved now, not when the kids have to go back to school and it is too late.
Gordon….welcome to the wacky world of Cornwall, Ontario, Canada.
I hope no one has a car for sale sign in their yard or attached to the car in their yard because from what I understand now, you could be fined for running a car dealership from your home.
See how ridiculous this whole situation is?