LTE – Eric Little of Ottawa Asks: “Can English-speaking and French-speaking Canadians live together, and do they want to do so?”

LTE – Eric Little of Ottawa Asks: “Can English-speaking and French-speaking Canadians live together, and do they want to do so?”

Canada TOPOIf the answer to this question is still yes, then a results-based official languages policy must be implemented. This is what I said to you six years ago, and I still believe it to be true. The government must continue to make choices and take actions that will:

 

  • allow Canadians to obtain services in both official languages;

  • allow public servants to work in the official language of their choice;

  • allow official language communities to fully contribute to Canadian society;

  • allow people in every part of the country to learn Canada’s two official languages.

Graham Frasier

Commissioner of Official Languages

http://www.ocol-clo.gc.ca/html/speech_discours_20032013_e.php

 

I think the answer can be yes and yes, but not with all those conditions. We have already lost the ability of government to make choices to the Supreme Court of Canada with several recent Charter cases. We have already lost Government to this continued and hurried focus on making Canada linguistically dual. Have we lost the people with common sense to demand common sense as well?

Even though hundreds of millions of dollars are spent from these road maps alone, this one from 2008-2013 for example, the actual number of bilingual persons over the decades remains in the 17% area. How many billions of dollars will be removed from health care, education or seniors programs before people realize Canada will not be anywhere near linguistically dual?

http://actionplan.gc.ca/en/initiative/official-languages-roadmap-canadas-linguistic

 

Allowing public servants to work in the language of their choice, and by default, managers, means we have lost sight of actually providing service to the taxpayer. That is a reason for government is it not? I have no issue with allowing people to learn two or more languages, as long as it is cost effective and the individual is not forced to. An actual bricks and mortar facility, whether for a separate hospital or education, should not be the instant response like the Yukon Court decision (15 million dollar school for 41 people in 2011). Use of technology, actual need and a slight change to some hiring should be the first considerations.

 

Budget 2013 page 233

Renewing the Roadmap for Canada’s Official Languages for 2013–2018.

 

Economic Action Plan 2013 proposes continued support for the Government’s new

Roadmap for Canada’s Official Languages (2013–2018).

 

Canada’s two official languages are an integral part of our country’s history

and culture as well as our identity as a nation. The Government is committed

to supporting official languages through its new Roadmap for Canada’s

Official Languages (2013–2018). The new Roadmap represents an ongoing

commitment to enhance the vitality of Canada’s official language minority

communities and contribute to a strengthened linguistic duality. The new

Roadmap also emphasizes the importance and benefits accruing from our

two official languages to national identity and promotes that immigrants

master at least one official language to continue to contribute to Canada’s

development and prosperity.

(Comments and opinions of Editorials, Letters to the Editor, and comments from readers are purely their own and don’t necessarily reflect those of the owners of this site, their staff, or sponsors.)

James Moak

31 Responses to "LTE – Eric Little of Ottawa Asks: “Can English-speaking and French-speaking Canadians live together, and do they want to do so?”"

  1. Highlander   March 27, 2013 at 2:41 PM

    ” An actual bricks and mortar facility, whether for a separate hospital or education, should not be the instant response like the Yukon Court decision (15 million dollar school for 41 people in 2011)”

    Wow there’s where numbers warrant -$365,853.65 per student really ?

    -How many disadvantaged could we have helped with that money ,how many children in this country go to bed hungry .

    -Many elderly living on below poverty incomes barely making it by.
    -Ontario last year froze welfare and numerous cutbacks on the programs -yet bilingualism budget not reduced but increased to $760 million.
    -Look at our native reserves and the abject poverty there.
    -Look at that little boy that had to have eye surgery to restore vision yet no money in the provincial coffers for that .

    -Lets cut back on the disadvantaged reeduce funding to feed and house them -lets put that money to push bilingualism.

    Hate to tell you people cant eat words ,and language does not keep a roof over your head to protect you from the elements .

    I am first a humanitarian and that $ 365,853.65 spent per child could have feed and clothed many unfortunate children.

    I would have much preferred 15 million of our taxes to go to food banks to serve many of different cultures then to spend it on 42 of one culture.

    What the hell is wrong with our country,when the money is directed for such a few when many go without.

    Bilingualism has cost us as estimated 3.4 trillion as per J.Allen a respected financial researcher.

    It seems that in these days many budgets are limited yet for (french) bilingualism money is no object.

  2. peter   March 27, 2013 at 2:57 PM

    @ eric,

    Before we go any further, I would like to see the following:

    1) A clear and EQUAL definition of bilingualism. One that applies to both English and french .

    2) That any testing that takes places, MUST EQUAL STANDARDS OF TESTS FOR BOTH FRENCH AND ENGLISH

    In other words if you need a B+ for the french test, then you need a B+ for the English test.

    3) tests are to be given by both an English person and a french person.

    4) the necessity for testing for bilingualism at all, is if there is sufficient numbers to warrant such a test. No point in having to be bilingual, if 1 out of 20 people you serve is English, that simply makes NO SENSE.

    Since I believe that the feds will never go for the above conditions I outlined, then NO ,I do not believe Canadians want to live with the french of this country.

    quebec, has gone its own way, period. It has different laws, different priorities, different immigration system, has been referred to by P.M. Harper “as a nation within a nation “, what ever that means. kind of like being half pregnant.

    quebec and the french should go . quebec and french culture have absolutely in common with Canada.

    As I have stated before, What is Canadian about quebec ?
    They play by a far different set of rules, and yet carry a Canadian passport, how come ? They are loyal to quebec , not Canada.
    They have laws that are discriminatory, racist and blatantly anti-English and xenaphobic. Sorry, this is not my Canada.

    To have quasi-police running around measuring the sizes of English lettering on signs, to have one of the two official languages in Canada, outlawed, to have a provincial government encourage its people to squeal on Honest English citizens for displaying a language in order to make a living. This is Canada, ?? Not my cCanada.

    if that is how quebec wants to operate then I want NO PART OF THEM OR quebec, EVER.

    They are a disgrace to Canadinas everywhere, and an embarrassment to anyone that believes in freedom.

  3. Highlander   March 27, 2013 at 3:50 PM

    Peter :

    I agree with what you would like to see a fair approach to bilingualism.

    The fraud squad will interpret this as “eliminating ” the french language .But it remains a fair equitable and practicle approach to bilingualism.

  4. peter   March 27, 2013 at 5:38 PM

    @ All

    Apologies, the 17th. line down from my post at 2:57 p.m.

    should read:

    quebec and the french should go. quebec and the french culture have absolutely “NOTHING” in common with Canada

  5. Simon   March 27, 2013 at 6:42 PM

    “Can English-speaking and French-speaking Canadians live together, and do they want to do so?”

    Well that’s not the way the priest put it, but yes it’s been 20 years with as orange a WASP, and as green a FROG as you’ll find.

    So I’d say yes.

  6. edudyorlik   March 27, 2013 at 8:35 PM

    Great LTE Eric —

    MORE DOUBLE SPEAK
    * allow Canadians to obtain services in both official languages;
    * allow public servants to work in the official language of their choice;
    * allow official language communities to fully contribute to Canadian society;
    * allow people in every part of the country to learn Canada’s two official languages.

    allow = be sure to continue to force things so that

    Graham Frasier

    So here we have it…
    People from coast to coast in Canada BE WARNED & BEWARE…

    THIS IS YOUR TRUMPET CALL.
    You are NOW official;y on record for having been warned….
    You can no longer use the excuse that you were never warned or say you didn’t realize what was going on.

    BEWARE.

    News release: March 2013
    Language commissioner Graham Fraser – Quote
    “allow people in EVERY PART of the country to learn Canada’s two official languages” end quote.

    Translated: This say’s: Be sure to continue to FORCE ALL of the 80% — majority — non French Canadians into being able to accommodate the 17% French minority.

    This is nothing but a

    — let’s make ALL of the rest of the majority of non French speaking Canada be able to function completely in French so that the minority 17% French —

    (a group mostly focused in ONE PROVINCE)

    — DO NOT have to worry about the French language and culture being gobbled up and marginalized within a huge English speaking north American landscape.

    This basically forces EVERYONE including ALL non French speaking persons in this country, into the

    — SAVE THE FRENCH LANGUAGE & CULTURE —

    mode.

    Let me be clear. I have nothing against the French or the French language and i wish them all the best in maintaining both the language and the culture as viable within North America BUT, i COMPLETELY resent being forced into not only paying for but also forcibly taking part in the venture of “trying” to save it and keep it viable.

    What on earth makes these people believe, and gives these people the right — or even the nerve — to believe they can force the 84% of NON French people in this country to learn & accommodate a language that ONLY 17% of this country speak?

    Especially when they in that so called “Nation” of theirs have ZERO interest in things like bilingualism or accommodating any other language or culture but their own.

    This is not to mention that a good portion of that 17% French can already speak English.

    It simply DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.

  7. edudyorlik   March 27, 2013 at 8:46 PM

    @ Peter. I normally agree with you 100% Peter but this time … Only about 95% (still pretty good 🙂

    I really don’t think we should even suggest either 1 or 2 as a possibility AT ALL.

    Peter wrote, ”
    ——————-
    1) A clear and EQUAL definition of bilingualism. One that applies to both English and french .
    2) That any testing that takes places, MUST EQUAL STANDARDS OF TESTS FOR BOTH FRENCH AND ENGLISH
    In other words if you need a B+ for the french test, then you need a B+ for the English test.
    2) That any testing that takes places, MUST EQUAL STANDARDS OF TESTS FOR BOTH FRENCH AND ENGLISH
    In other words if you need a B+ for the french test, then you need a B+ for the English test.
    ——————–

    even suggesting these things in effect does the English two major disservices as it provides ammunition for them to move forward.

    1) it presumes that we are dealing with equal parts when in fact the French minority in this country is ONLY 17% which we all know 90% of that can completely function OK in English as well

    AND

    2) EVERYONE, even the French, will tell you that learning English is relatively easy and learning French is MUCH more challenging. Thus testing buys into “their” tactics.

  8. Jane Doe   March 27, 2013 at 8:56 PM

    Yes English and French want to live together….. Quebec has not gone it’s own way.. There are many English folks who are trying to defend their rights and I think they may succeed.. I happen to know the family of this young man and he is brilliant but is also very tactful They have on very intelligent guy who is on board and so far have 36.000 signatures on a petition… People could take lessons from his approach to petitioning something they disapprove of.

    So don’t rule QC out… They are a distinct society and that is acceptable.. Pauline Marois will not last nor will her tactics… We need QC and QC needs Canada… I am sue there are many French people on that petition too because they are disadvantaged by Bill 14

    http://colinstandish.ca/6-easy-steps-to-fight-bill-14/

    But their approach is different than what is happening here in Eastern Ontario..

  9. edudyorlik   March 27, 2013 at 11:48 PM

    @Highlander

    After reading your post on March 27, 2013 at 2:41 pm

    i was doing a bit of checking around. I found the article for this on yet another — “Support the French” but get the money from all Canadian tax payers — web site called CPF – Canadian Parents for french.

    A group/site sponsored of course by our government. And not just at one level but at 2 levels and also 2 departments (double dipping).

    http://www.cpf.bc.ca/site3/index.php/media/headline-news/76-news-articles/1535-court-orders-yukon-to-build-15m-school-for-41-francophone-students

    TOTAL insanity.

    I once gave a ride to a fella from Australia. He flat out said to me. “Why do you Anglo Canadians put up with things like the Bloc (at the time) to exist inside your federal system like that?” He went on to say, “if that kind of thing were happening in my country mate, they would have been tossed out and then brought up on charges of treason.”
    I couldn’t help but simply nod and agree.

    But yet, the English majority in this country just sit idly by as things of this nature, and other things (some even more downright despicable) keep right on being shoved down our throats while we PAY the largest percentage of the tax money that affords such things in the first place.

  10. Highlander   March 28, 2013 at 7:34 AM

    Jane Doe
    March 27, 2013 at 8:56 pm

    “So don’t rule QC out… They are a distinct society and that is acceptable.. Pauline Marois will not last nor will her tactics… We need QC and QC needs Canada…”

    Yes Quebec is just one distinct culture of many in this country .Marois tactics are wrong and so is bill 101 -The Liberals chose to keep bill 101 in its entirety even though it remains an oppressive bill.

    “But their approach is different than what is happening here in Eastern Ontario..”

    Eastern Ontario approach is to advise the population what is happening with regards to once again language laws.

    Language laws are repressive,It is not the state to decide what words come out of the individuals mouth or on their business signs,for if so Socialism has won.

    If language laws are to exist then they must be MEASURABLE ,FAIR AND EQUITABLE such as representation by population.
    This clearly does not occur and it abuses democracy .

    Cornwall is 21% francophone of which 98%of them are bilingual:

    Health unit =100% bilingual
    Hospital = 50%+bilingual
    CCAC = 80% + bilingual
    ALL Provincial entities 65% bilingual
    Courts in Cornwall near 80% bilingual
    French only clinics 9

    This is beyond the intent of providing bilingual service as the original intent of the legislation Was “where numbers warrant”.

    If the federal government is to encourage “bilingualism” Equally then those monies should be spent equally on both languages -THEY ARE NOT.

    Ontario spends $760,000,000 on bilingualism (being the majority are English) this means spent on French.
    Quebec spends $50,000,000 on bilingualism (being the majority is French )this means spent on English.

    Francophones in Ontario represent 4%
    Anglophones/Allophones represent 17%

    Conclusion with a Question :Why does Ontario spend 1300% more on bilingualism then Quebec -yet Quebec has more anglophones then the rest of Canada has Francophones?

    If all other cultures/langauges were to be supported monetarily to the same extent as Francophones we would be a bankrupt Country within a year.

  11. Highlander   March 28, 2013 at 8:23 AM

    edudyorlik
    March 27, 2013 at 11:48 pm

    http://www.cpf.bc.ca/site3/index.php/media/headline-news/76-news-articles/1535-court-orders-yukon-to-build-15m-school-for-41-francophone-students

    Yes the majority of this groups is payed for by Herritage Canada and numerous other government agencies .
    So in effect they are payed to lobby government for French services of which it further costs the government to provide those French services.
    All of this for <4% of the population,once again is this where "Numbers Warrant"

    So it was not the individual citizens that payed the court costs to push for a school for 41 students but once gain the government payed the costs .

    I wonder if the court costs were added to the bilingual operating cost?
    So many issues as such are not counted in the costs of bilingualism!
    But only a million here and a million there ,but with the frequency they occur it really adds up to a lot of money that is not counted towards the bilingualism budget.

  12. edudyorlik   March 28, 2013 at 11:49 AM

    On March 28, 2013 at 8:23 am Highlander (rhetorically, i assume since i know he is likely quite well aware of the answer, as most of us are) asks the question.

    “I wonder if the court costs were added to the bilingual operating cost?”

    to which i say, there just HAS TO BE so many more wasted tax payers dollars pumped into this —

    farce of what can only be called the largest social engineering fiasco in history

    — than what is spoken for “above board.”

    It is VERY obvious that there are MANY expenses associated with this issues that have not been and are not tabulated properly and “added in” as part of the costs of this official bilingualism scam that is being perpetuated on this country.

    If the REAL numbers were known to the public, one would have to hope that people would finally speak up.

    Either way, if the Anglophone Canadians DO NOT wake up and show their force in numbers against this fiasco/take over, then history will show this to be the largest takeover of not only a sheer land mass (the country of Canada) but also THEEEEEE most significant take over of cultural group of people EVER in world history.

    And, all of this accomplished without having to have fired one single shot.

    REMEMBER —
    A tiny flow of water into a small area, flowing each and every second of each and every single day will not seem like much at any given moment.

    But, one day, one will open their eyes to find a huge insurmountable lake staring them in the face and people will finally wake up and ask, how did that happen? Where did that come from? What’s that doing there. Of course then, retrospectively, it will be much easier to trace back but…

    Somehow, we MUST help everyone become aware of the small flow that is growing — NOW —

    And, people… The time is nigh.

  13. edudyorlik   March 28, 2013 at 12:49 PM

    Court orders (in a French only ruling) Yukon to build $15M school for 41 francophone students

    This was 2011 and the order was to build within 2 years.

    Anyone have an update on this ?

  14. Cory Cameron   March 28, 2013 at 1:06 PM

    Edudyorlik, Highlander, Rosie, Peter:

    The National Post and a few others including our beloved CFN draws much attention to this issue.

    There are countless stories of people being mistreated all over Quebec and Eastern Ontario.

    So far, we haven’t seen a large backlash from non-Francophones over this issue. And I think I know why.

    For the most part (as we and a few thousand others already know personally), this issue has not as of yet come to affect them. Most people in the Western provinces have yet to feel the sting of what bilingualism has come to mean simply because laws are not yet in place in municipalities where signs have changed overnight from English or bilingual to French first or French only.

    Alas, the further west you go, the less amount of Francophone population which has meant less intrusiveness into everyday life for the people who have otherwise lived in a given place in relative peaceful coexistence with one-another. What seems to occur is that once significant numbers of Pro-French first ethnocentrists have moved into an area, things begin to change whereby a town that once looked like a typical Ontario town slowly changes over the years into something resembling a Quebec town…

    What we need to do is to tell our personal stories to these Canadians living in the Western provinces. They need to know that Jean Coutu in Alexandria doesn’t sell English Christmas cards; that there are French only school buses/schools/health centres in Eastern Ontario. They need to be made aware that the Canadian flag is not the flag most visible from the 417 over 2 kilometres away from Casselman but is instead the Franco-Ontario flag. They also need to be made aware of things like tire slashings, hate crimes, the legislating of linguistic discrimination and the inability to find good work or any work at all because of French ethnocentrism in a province whereby 96% of the population speak the common language of language.

    They also need to be aware that the tide has also turned East and that ethnocentrists there are also changing things to suit their needs.

    For people reading this in our Western Provinces, please take a minute and examine this flag that flies at the highway entrance to one of our small Eastern Ontario towns, named Casselman. http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lsku5oqekQ1qzysrvo1_400.jpg Now, ask yourselves, why doesn’t there exist a large Canadian flag instead of the current flag that represents only one ethnicity?

    This is the type of cultural takeover we are talking about. It’s insidious; it starts innocently enough with the advocating of Franco-Rights that turns into full-blown French first everything once the population reaches a level whereby the federal coffers start pouring the money cement into the area. From highway signs to schools, restaurants, health clinics, City Hall – there is a pattern that repeats itself always, all-the-time. And that is the complete ethnocentric takeover of an area whereby you’re left wondering what the hell happened. Usually it takes anywhere from 2-5 years.

  15. Highlander   March 28, 2013 at 1:53 PM

    Can English-speaking and French-speaking Canadians live together, and do they want to do so?”

    I believe the answer is no! Not under these circumstances ,when both are treated equal within provincial borders and out ,perhaps then it could be possible.

    The language issue will grow bigger.
    The inequity between both is strikingly real ,This so called reality of bilingualism is a farce,both are not encouraged equally and many are waking up to this.

    Social media is a fantastic tool as the major media outlets “control” the message ,Social media has become a powerful tool to advise people outside of the media’s Grasp.

    Do you honestly think pastagate would have went beyond Montreal if it wasn’t for social media -Even the major Canadian news did not talk about it -because it went against their interest ,it really was only after international media got involved did our “controlled “media become involved.

    So yes now people in B.C to Newfoundland can get an understanding what REALLY happens to other Canadians in Quebec as well as New Brunswick and now Ontario with regards to language laws.

    The message is much harder to “control” on social media.

    This is only the beginning,it will only grow.

    Our politicians follow social media as well and they will be made aware of the language laws and how it creates inequity.

  16. edudyorlik   March 28, 2013 at 3:34 PM

    I believe we are being baited.

    An example might be… A strategic person selling a car who wishes to fetch 5 thousand for the car will put the car on the market for 7 thousand. Then when a prospective buyer comes along and figures, … Well, i can’t just give him the price he is asking thus i since he has asked for 7 thousand, i will offer 5 thousand.

    At this point the seller is where he wanted to be in the first place and agrees thus leaving the buyer thinking he has been fairly treated.

    Therefore, (no offense intended Highlander) when people say things like …
    “when both are treated equal within provincial borders and out ,perhaps then it could be possible.”

    This (pardon the pun) “buys” right into their game.

    As there really is — NO “EQUAL” — at all in this whole situation

    The REAL FACTS in this country do not present themselves as “EQUAL” in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM.

    There are so many things to say on this i would take me a paragraph or two at the least, but i hope this is enough to at least convey the idea.

    If we start with the British having defeated the French. in other words this battle was already fought and won with the French subsequently have signed agreements handing over total control for this country to the British. That’s it, right there. Done deal.

    This in and of itself should offer (– as i KNOW it would if things were the other way round) it’s own set of advantages and weight to the Anglophones side and thus, exemplifies the NOT equal situation.

    And, even if, in good faith, we leave the fact that the British WON aside, we still have a situation where things ARE NOT equal and can NEVER be argued as if they were equal.

    We next have to look at the fact that we’re talking about the wishes of a WHOLE country vs the wishes of a single province. 28 million vs 7.5 maybe (?)

    Then we have to look at the wishes of a majority 80% Anglophone population vs the wises of a minority 17% Francophone population.

    At this point, we can start throwing in the major arguing points in which (as far as i can tell by judging the French side of this and how they seem to carry themselves) ARE NOT negotiable.

    To them the English culture and language is not allowed to be mixed with the French culture and language as this IS NOT allowable for reasons we have all come to be so familiar with.

    To the French it seems that it MUST BE French first, French dominant and or French ONLY.

    So the answer is NO, we cannot live together

    AND ESPECIALLY — NO — if we fool heartedly believe that there is even some remote possibility that if

    “both are treated equal within provincial borders”

    Or ANY attempt at coming at this — from ANY EQUAL WAY —

    WHY? because we simply ARE NOT EQUAL — AT ALL — PERIOD.

    Attempting this idea brings us back to the sale of the car. The French end up with ALL of Canada agreeing to operate in French if the province of Quebec relaxes and agrees that the province of Quebec to be bilingual. NO WAY. Not a fair deal at all, all things considered.

    I already CANNOT believe that the English have accepted the idea that one of their own (majority Anglophones) cannot aspire to being the Prime Minister of Canada. How on earth can this BE ALLOWED?? This surely could be a place where translators should be perfectly acceptable.

    Naw, just NOT RIGHT.
    I am firmly against the idea that EVERYONE in this country SHOULD have to know French but, if we continue down this path where by we,

    to quote Graham Fraser, ” — allow — ”

    I prefer to call it, “make it so that”

    “people in every part of the country to learn Canada’s two official languages.”

    we end up with a completely unfair scenario and leaves things not too far off from that one step to the next logical (according to the real life examples the French have already shown us) step where by everything is French first, french dominant or even French only.

    Nes pas acceptable…

  17. highlander   March 29, 2013 at 5:10 AM

    If we lived in a proper democracy we would have a measurable,fair and equitable approach to bilingualism “representation by population.

    But at last we do not have a true democracy,more elitism though language policies .
    As long as the French live in the past CANADA’ devide will continue.

  18. edudyorlik   March 29, 2013 at 11:21 AM

    ON March 29, 2013 at 5:10 am highlander wrote,
    “If we lived in a proper democracy we would have a measurable,fair and equitable approach to bilingualism representation by population.”

    This is true highlander, on some level but, if we take a page from many countries or better yet, let’s look at what Quebec and the French themselves are doing.

    Now, i don’t agree with the laws that outlaw other languages but, i DO believe, as they have done, that it’s OK to declare a particular language to be “the common language” in a given country.

    Especially if that language makes up the base of the majority of that country. Of course, we all know that they have inaccurately applied this in the province of Quebec, as the “province” of Quebec IS JUST THAT a “province” and NOT a country.

    Isn’t that right, Pierre, Richard and Albright? just sayin 🙂

    Sort of like how they call their premier the Prime Minister etc. Oh mon dieux, these children. Always pretending to be something they are NOT … tisk tisk…

    Anyways, the other thing I wanted to note about the concept of bilingualism by representation approach is…

    This basically say’s to the French. Go ahead and continue to — over populate us — in every small area you can, and once you out number us in any particular area (whatever number is THeeeee chosen number to be) say, 80 percent or more you can then micro manage things and take over that area with French ONLY even though it is STILL in ONTARIO which is predominantly (over 80%) English.

    Sort of what we see happening in many eastern Ontario areas right now. Christ they even re-named one place, “le Nation.” Talk about gawl(?spelling).

    When one considers that in their province, all it takes is 50 percent plus to downright outlaw another language (namely English).

    I mean, if they tried to apply a sense of fairness and courtesy outside the province of Quebec to this issue it wouldn’t be so bad. IE: the University of Ottawa, the Montfort hospital and even all these small eastern Ontario townships that are, after all, still WITHIN ONTARIO.

    One would think that since the majority English are trying to be fair and equitable by accepting to have these bilingual places and institutions in ONTARIO, a province with an 86.3 percent English majority, this would mean the French would be “fair and just” and (at the very least) have the English first, on top and dominant.

    But no, for them, bilingual either means – French first, French on top, French dominant, AND IN MANY CASES (as we have come to oddly accept when they are given this courtesy) French only.

    Naw, I don’t know if playing fair with certain types is the right way to go. These folk have shown themselves to practically ALWAYS take advantage of those who play fair with them. And seriously, isn’t it prudent to learn, — and thus act on — this kind of first hand knowledge and experience when dealing with people?

    If you deal with someone who plays fair then by all means treat them fairly in return but if you deal with someone who constantly subverts the rules and cheats you as soon as you give them an opening to do so, wouldn’t it be much wiser to be a little less forthcoming with those folk.

    ——————

    highlander wrote, “But at last we do not have a true democracy, more elitism though language policies.”

    Again, EVEN IF we had a so called, “true democracy” (or say, something closer to it) wouldn’t we still be getting f&*$*^($#)ed?

    I say this because, the way this seems to be shaping up is that they are using the very democratic system (through subversion and an implanted set of covert operators within the system itself) in order to undermine and “bend” things in just a way to suites what they are after.

    — This is why you see some saying things like, the courts agree with us, the laws agree with us. etc etc… —

    And basically, this is what is meant by the English are playing checkers while the French are playing chess.

    WE MUST wake up and realize that this game is being much more cunningly —

    (underhandedly, subvertly, slyly, coyly – choose your word)

    — played on THE OTHER SIDE and we can no longer go around simply trying to be so called “fair” while “asking for” bilingualism by representation and things like that. We have to realize they HAVE ZERO interest in this.

    Their goal is domination, pure and simple.

    And I’m afraid that given the fact that we are now talking about entrenchment in this country within most parts of the federal government, many parts of the legal system, and frankly a great deal of ALL levels of EVERYTHING, this means there must be a much stronger (numbers) and more intellectually cunning (use of those numbers) response.

    highlander wrote, “As long as the French live in the past CANADA’ divide will continue.”

    Sorry to say it but, — THAT PAST — you mention, is exactly why they are doing all of this. They still have the bad taste of defeat on their lips and they could NEVER stand it to begin with. — Je me souviens —

    And, as a result of a well conceived plan, and some well positioned covert operators, it will all come to roust UNLESS we stand up NOW.
    ————-
    A story / quote from Ken (a great write who often writes here and one who was so badly affected by all of this)

    Ken wrote, “The big concern I have is so much emphasis on “Fairness”. In my opinion that argument is never going to get us anywhere. Why? About 25 years ago (wow is it that long since Pfizer where I was Chief engineer, closed) I asked a very hard nosed Frenchman what “Je Me Souviens”
    meant. His very simple answer and very vitriolic, “Remember the Plains of Abraham, well it’s our turn now”.
    —————
    JUST REALLY LISTEN to what is said in this interview. He is telling us in no uncertain terms what IS HAPPENING. how much clearer does it have to be?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HA0-psDcdnk&hd=1

    WE MUST listen and pay attention and, mostly we must NOW ACT.

    and here, starting at counter number 9:45
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abOWJkf-Vh8&hd=1

    I am reluctant to tell you all what I have discovered as being the next step in this process.

    This is because, right at the moment it is mostly contained at the higher level in the French movement and has not been completely made clear yet. Thus, I do not wish to help them disseminate it throughout their lower ranks.

  19. Pierre   March 29, 2013 at 3:01 PM

    @ Jane Doe & Simon
    The only two other fair-minded people, on this chat, at this point.

    You are right, Francophone and Anglophone can and do live together.
    The real question is : Can the two distinct societies, or ethnic groups, live together without the big one eating up the small one.

    Francophone risk, and do get, assimilated everywhere in North America.
    Be it, in the USA, or in Canada, including Québec, if Francophones do not have very stong laws to protect them they will, in time, get assimilated
    Louisiana, is proof of it.

    In Québec, we have law 101.
    In Canada (including Québec) we have the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and some provinces have their own languages laws.

    Many people (mainly Anglos) freak out, every time they ear the words language laws. That is mainly due to the medias strirring emotions to sell their stuff.
    I am sure that, if the situation was better explained there would be much more acceptance of those laws and of bilingualism.
    But, there will always be some who, because of bigotry, ethnocentricity or intelletual laziness, who will try to weaken the already fragile French language, and culture…
    It seems that most of them are in Eastern Ontario, from Cornwall to Ottawa right up to North Est, Ontario.
    That’s understandable when we know whose influence, those people have been under, for years…
    But that’s a debate for another day.

    What’s important is that the necessity of law 101 is recognized by all Québécois dispite the fact that, the opinions, on the rules of application, may differ slightly.
    Most Quebeckers (Anglos) also recognize the necessity of law 101…
    Sure, some would like it to disappear, but those who could’nt live with it, have already left.
    Freedom exists in Eastern Ontatio, as it does in Québec.

  20. edudyorlik   March 29, 2013 at 4:27 PM

    @Pierre
    Anyone who believes in laws like Bill 101 has a VERY warped sense of “Freedom.”

  21. Highlander   March 29, 2013 at 8:02 PM

    Pierre
    March 29, 2013 at 3:01 pm

    “But, there will always be some who, because of bigotry, ethnocentricity or intelletual laziness, who will try to weaken the already fragile French language, and culture…
    It seems that most of them are in Eastern Ontario, from Cornwall to Ottawa right up to North Est, Ontario.”

    How is asking for a measured ,fair and equitable approach weakening the french language .
    This is not about your so called bigotry or ethnocentricity as this truly exists in Quebec.

    So in Ontario with French only health clinics and segregated school buses promotes the french language.

    How about white only clinics and white only buses as that would protect the southern U.S culture ?

    You don’t get it Pierre is this about inclusion or exclusion ,oppressing any culture to protect another is wrong,I am not just speaking of one culture that speaks English but many.

    “What’s important is that the necessity of law 101 is recognized by all Québécois dispite the fact that, the opinions, on the rules of application, may differ slightly.”

    Wrong again Pierre ,many English/allophones consider themselves Québécois yet they do not agree with bill 101 .

    “Most Quebeckers (Anglos) also recognize the necessity of law 101…”
    BULLPASTA – IF THAT WERE REALLY SO WHAT WAS PASTAGATE?
    THE LAW HAD PERMITTED AND ENCOURAGED THE LANGUAGE POLICE TO ACT LIKE THAT.

    Why do you feel it “NECESSARY ” TO HAVE A LAW THAT OPPRESSES OTHER CULTURES?

    IF THIS WAS REALLY ABOUT PROTECTING A LANGUAGE WHAT OF THE NATIVE LANGUAGES ABOUT TO GO EXTINCT?

    DO NATIVE LANGUAGES NOT DESERVE THE SAME PROTECTION?
    IS FRENCH MORE IMPORTANT THEN THE NATIVE LANGUAGES?

    PIERRE WHERE YOU IN YOUR PAST LIFE A SOUTHERN CRACKER WHO BURNED CROSSES .
    BECAUSE YOUR COMMENTS AND ATTITUDE ARE VERY SIMILAR ,YOU REALLY ACT AS IF YOU ARE A RA***T ,OPPRESSIVE ,HATEFUL INDIVIDUAL FOR YOUR OWN CAUSE !

    ALL PEOPLE ARE EQUAL ,NO MATER THE COLOR ,RELIGION ,SEX OR LANGUAGE AND BILL 101 REMAINS AN OPPRESSIVE PIECE OF LEGISLATION.

    IS IT RIGHT TO VIOLATE ANOTHER’S RIGHTS IN THE INTEREST TO PROMOTE ONES LANGUAGE?
    IF YOU AGREE THEN YOU AGREE TO REGULATION 17 AND BILL 101!

    GOOD NIGHT PIERRE AFTER READING YOUR COMMENTS I HAVE A SUDDEN NEED TO TAKE A SHOWER AS I FEEL DIRTY NOW.

  22. Pierre   March 29, 2013 at 8:42 PM

    @ edudyorlik
    Just because you don’t want to understand that the the ”Charte de la langue Française” protects the freedom of the majority in Québec, to speak, work in and be served in their language, does not matter because, all Franco and most Anglo Québécois do. And most politicians in the federal system and in other provinece do.

    So keep on having fun making those hate videos and distorting the facts, in your posts.
    It will never amount to anything.

  23. highlander   March 30, 2013 at 7:50 AM

    Pierre March 29, 2013 at 8:42 pm

    Charte de la langue Française” protects the freedom of the majority in Québec, to speak, work in and be served in their language, does not matter because, all Franco and most Anglo Québécois do.”

    Once again you have warped views -Freedom means free to choose,hence Free-dom ,how is oppressing anothers rights freedom.
    You remained warped of thought ,freedom means everyone to freely make choices.

    And with your warped views you call the video’s hate videos and it is you that is distorted.

    Have a good day don’t burn any crosses.

  24. Rosie   March 30, 2013 at 9:10 AM

    Pierre “Many people (mainly Anglos) freak out, every time they ear the words language laws. That is mainly due to the medias strirring emotions to sell their stuff”

    No Pierre, this has nothing to do with media, but everthing to do with personal experience and yes you are absotely right when you mention where this happens.. Eastern Ontario right up through Ottawa and Northern Ontario.

    and your comment ” But, there will always be some who, because of bigotry, ethnocentricity or intelletual laziness, who will try to weaken the already fragile French language, and culture…”

    You really need to visit this area Pierre, you will hear the French language alive and well, and it has been for many many years. Yes they speak amongs themselves using both English and French in the same sentence…but who are you going to blame for that?; all their English bigoted (intelletual lazy???), whatever that means…friends, I suppose.

  25. edudyorlik   March 30, 2013 at 10:51 AM

    Understand? “I” don’t want to understand?

    Naw, that surely ain’t the situation here Pierre. It’s NOT that “I” don’t want to understand this “charter – against — other languages.” Nope, WRONG.

    I mean honestly, even the name “Charte de la langue Française” has an undertone of discrimination and hate to it.

    It’s all doublespeak. I mean seriously … JUST PLAIN and simple doublespeak.

    The charter of the “French language”? Most -REAL- “countries” have a charter of RIGHTS and FREEDOMS (for all). Ever heard of that concept Pierre FREEDOM FOR ALL not JUST the French and the French language ?

    What does Quebec have ? A charter against other languages. NICE…

    This so called “charter against other languages” which it really SHOULD BE CALLED, begins with one of THEEE most flagrant uses of the concept of doublespeak that I think I have ever seen or heard. Wait, that’s debatable. As this one

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=me3fij_ijhk&hd=1

    might be up there too.

    ————–
    (BTW… Definition…
    Doublespeak: A language that deliberately disguises, distorts, or reverses the meaning of words.
    ————–

    This “so called charter against other languages” reads, “Whereas the National Assembly intends to pursue this objective in a spirit of fairness and open-mindedness, respectful of the institutions of the English-speaking community of Québec, and respectful of the ethnic minorities.

    Fairness, open-mindedness and respect????

    Un-freakin believable. And what’s worse is that, people like you Pierre actually really believe this doublespeak cr@p.

    This so called “charter” then needs – who — to enact it? Her majesty The QUEEN. humm, I wonder why that is Pierre? Why would it NEED to be enacted by “her majesty?” Could it be that Britain and the English “control” whether or not Quebec can even do such things? After all, Quebec is NOT a country of its own, YET. Is it ? NO it is NOT.

    Maybe you & your ilk should work on that one Pierre. THEN – maybe – just maybe… All of your backwards doublespeak rhetoric can have REAL weight when applied to Quebec — THE COUNTRY– As opposed to just Quebec the province, which is just one of many other provinces, whaddya say?

    As for my video’s. They make you afraid don’t they Pierre? They are seen world wide. Thousands of hits. More and more each and every day from ever corner of the world. One may go viral at any moment. And — THAT — is what you are afraid of, eh Pierre. Afraid the world will know more about what is going on in this country, and in the province of Quebec. Yes, social media is a very POWERFUL thing Pierre.
    That’s right. You are afraid. Afraid that the people are beginning to wake up and see the hatred yes, but NOT from me no, the hatred from the French in Quebec Pierre.

    That’s right Pierre, the MAJORITY Anglophones in this country and the world are starting to see what is going on, and beginning to be directly affected by things that are being ever so slowly pushed upon more and more innocent people who do not live in the “province” of Quebec and could care less about the French language outside the province of Quebec.

    The west is waking up after the French pushed them into have the “French anthem” at the Calgary Stampede. This incessant need for French to be dominant is starting to annoy A LOT OF PEOPLE.
    That’s right… The world — Dozens of countries got a taste of the bigotry of Quebec and the French with the “PASTAGATE” situation.

    Its coming Pierre. The end to this charade revolving around the need for French to be in every part of Canada.

    The end to the 80 percent plus Canadians being forced to PAY with their hard earned tax dollars for a pipe dream that MAYBE 17% of the people of this country shares. — that’s right — MAYBE 17%… If that…

    As more and more of the majority wake up and stop paying for this charade of “Frenchification” it will have no funding and then, it can go back to where it deserves to be. A antiquated little ethnocentric cleansing concept that used to reside solely between the ears of the likes of Rene Levesque and Jacques Parizeau. At which point it will be relegated to the borders within a washed up little province / (perhaps country by then) called Quebec.

    A nothingness “country” run by a bunch of corrupt politicians who will do to it and its peoples as the leaders of the past did to it back then.

    Whatever is beneficial for THEM as they will simply repress their own people and keep them, shall we say, “on the farms” once again in order to retain a sense of power and control.

    As for my videos, which video bugs you Pierre? Where do you see hate Pierre?
    It must be this one where the French vandalize the Canadian flag of one of their own because he opposed them and believes in the Canadian flag. They HATE that he is NOT a traitor to this country. A video where the mayor spews more double speak. hummm let’s see… The only “hate” I see there Pierre is from this PQ’ist mayor who doesn’t respect Canada and the Canadian flag and those who vandalized this mans Canadian flag.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWkmhhdl268&hd=1

    Or maybe it’s this video of a news interview of this innocent women Jeanne Barr who lost her job in a small town IN ONTARIO where there is maybe 3 freakin French people (and a few language inspectors)

    Yeah, a lot of “hate” in that video Pierre but it’s NOT “hate” from me as far as I can see its “hate” against the English language and unilingualism in this great country (which btw, is over 80% Anglophone).

    Meanwhile, back in the “province” of Quebec with a population of over a million English people we have paramedics refusing to speak English. RIGHT !!!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5Lox94tBAg&hd=1

    Or maybe it’s this video which comes straight out and calls bill 101 a repressive bill and goes on to point out that minority non French people in Quebec — mean nothing — to the French and Quebec as bill 101 is MORE IMPORTANT. Yup, lot’s of HATE there, but yet again, NOT from me but from those of your own ilk.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVaN0-vfGKU&hd=1

    Or maybe its this video. Where again, we hear of those of your own ilk vandalizing and terrorizing one of their own because he speaks out against the idiocy of trying to promote one culture by trying to erase another one. Yup, again, lot’s of hate there but yet again, NOT from me but from the French who are insecure and filled with hate and fear.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfOMcZhyQ_4&hd=1

    or maybe this video. Where all they wanted was for two English bands to play and help the French celebrate their so called St Jean day. Oh no, no tolerance for anything but French in this one so, these hate filled people disrupt the fun for all.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G0SCotuwYI&hd=1

    Ah, I got it… It must be this one Pierre, this one where French militia purists threaten the life of this father of a young daughter saying, “he may not ever see his family again.”
    Lot’s of HATE in this one too Pierre but AGAIN … NOT from me.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIWXnxc6Ygs&hd=1

    Then we have this “real winner.”
    Imagine — another “Pierre…” — must be a common name there in “hate land”

    P. Curzie “If we don’t do nothing then we will be in a bilingual Montreal and I don’t think it is a good thing for nobody in Quebec.” I guess we can call this one “hate of bilingualism” yet, isn’t that what the French want from ALL the rest of Canada Pierre? Bilingualism?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZBlynkVDDQ&hd=1

    Oh, this MUST be the one you were referring to Pierre… Ah darn, nope. This is not it either.
    This one simply (using one of your own — Bridgette Pellerin– a wonderful well educated French person who understands what Quebec is doing is WRONG) saying that Quebec is sucking the ROC dry.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1_NjmbbVHo&hd=1

    Naw, if you REALLY want to see hate Pierre. Here is where it can be found.

    THIS IS THE ONE ——————————————-
    Again though, NOT from me, but from a few of your own. Pure unadulterated HATE. Yup REAL HATE on the faces of these protestors. Just look on the faces of these protestors. That look is NOT JUST A

    “we don’t like these people here in Quebec” kind of look, this is the LOOK OF — PURE HATRED — Recognize it Pierre? I am sure you see it a lot…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMDakVR8oX0&hd=1

    YUP, Seems the ONLY “hate” I can find in my videos Pierre is from your folk who seem to hate everything that has to do with Canada, the English language, the English people, the English culture and just about everything that is NOT … French.

    Oh and finally, this video Pierre which pretty much sums it ALL up for you…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1LWAfBfWZ4&hd=1

    Oh and remember, have a nice hate filled day eh… 🙂

  26. peter   March 30, 2013 at 10:02 PM

    @ Cory,

    Re: your post march 28th. 1:06

    regarding Informing people across Canada of the forced bilingualism and the the like, I suggest that we take newspaper ads all across the country. We can each raise funds, from people we all know that are our supporters. This can include friends , relatives and people who are in sync with our views. I know I ahve many relatives that would contribute monetarily to such an honorable cause. Also or, a web site , that displays what we see and post on CFN, could bet set up.
    I also suggested that the videos that eduryorlik displays , and does a great job in producing, that the links be posted for all to see. this process can be done through CLF and ourselves.

    All we are talking about here is advertising . I also would like to see language related issues be forwarded to M.P.”s in Ottawa and queen’s park, as well as the videos the both edudyorlik and Eric have researched.

    This cannot be that hard to do. I can contribute to this in a variety, of ways and we all have our own talents to make this happen. Please advise, sorry for the late answer to your post.

  27. Cory Cameron   March 31, 2013 at 6:39 AM

    @ Peter,

    This is a fantastic idea! What do you think, Highlander, Eric, Rosie, etc.? of this idea of Peter’s regarding advertising? I would like to get onto this when we can.

    I will also be mailing out my letters to the companies requesting financial help to fight these government policies. I have several made out and they’re ready to go. Specifically will be focusing on those companies who are directly impacted by Bill 101, 14 in Quebec.

    Also, am in the midst of compiling companies from out West who are interested in this fight against government mandated language policies.

    C.

  28. edudyorlik   March 31, 2013 at 7:12 PM

    Hi all, happy hop hop day.

    Been a bit busy. just catching up now.
    I assume that since you never replied Pierre, that meant i was right eh? The only “hate” you could find in my video’s (as i pointed out) was from those on YOUR SIDE of this issue. Did you catch the pure hate on the faces of those protesting the monarchy. Those were the best ones. PURE hate. Pure hate. Yup, unmistakable.

    Funny to see many of those folks yelling in that video were WAYYYyyy too young to know about being repressed and held down by the British or the English. Wonder where those young folks got that information? I guess it was taught to them. Or, likley more like they were “brainwashed” into believing this cr@p by their parents and relatives.

    Yeah, quite common over there isn’t it Pierre?

    To pound it into the kids as to how les moudits Anglais were to blame for their state of being held down and repressed.

    Oh well, must save the language and the culture at any cost eh? Yeah, I get it. Fear reigns.

    So sorry to prove you wrong yet again. Hope you can get over it. I know it’s tough cause you and your type are more familiar with “je me souviens’ing”

    Try Pierre, just try. I am sure you can get past it.

    @ Cory and Peter. Yeah, i like the idea. A way to help bring this cr@p to the light of day. I’m in.

  29. peter   March 31, 2013 at 8:44 PM

    @ Cory,

    I will do all I can, I do have some health issues, I am not a spring chicken any more,but regardless I will do my part.

    I don’t believe this will be that difficult. What I especially like, is that a while back Edudyorlik produced a video, showing how the federal government ( liberals ) in the 1970’s began to change the way hiring was set up in Ottawa. I believe, if memory serves me right it was Chretian who began to change things in government , so that french would become necessary in all federal jobs.
    Also the stats featured by all were of great significance.

    In any event, it was very telling and just the thing we need along with his other great videos.

    Just set this up and I will do my very best to give any and all support I can muster up.

    happy Easter to all.

  30. Eric   April 1, 2013 at 8:10 AM

    Our Official Languages office seem to have have an expanded mission statement as it now has written understandings with both Ontario and Quebec. It also seems to be leaving Quebec to do what it wants while demanding more French everywhere.
    The federal government has also bought into this with that budget item promoting duality. Was anyone fooled with the Border Services agent saying Welcome to Canada & bonjour to the flying Wallenda Niagara Falls rope walker while fishing for his passport?

  31. Eric   April 1, 2013 at 8:10 AM

    Sorry, it should be Ontario and New Brunswick, not Quebec.

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