Roger E Roy Responds to Bilingualism Debate Letters to the editor – May 7, 2012


Psychologists tell us that a dark, evil shadow resides in every single human being. Keeping that dark side of our nature under control is what keeps a society civilized, and allows individuals to develope to their full potential in life. Part of that dark side includes things like bigotry and racism, insidious afflictions on human-kind. Out of control they can easily lead to mental illness, criminal activity, and even war when groups or “the masses” get carried away. No-one likes to be called a racist or a bigot, but every human being has that potential in them, and it’s based on nothing less than small, narrow minded ignorance. That’s one side of this so-called language debate that no-one seems to want to admit to, or confront. Some of us have to take a very close look at ourselves in the mirror.




     Language rights in Canada, both French and English, from Canada’s 2 founding nations, go back at least as far as Confederation, and have been reaffirmed several times since. Unfortunately, those rights would not be met without legislation like the FLSA. It also took legislation to guarantee employment access for women and visible minorities to the civil service and business, both federally, and provincially.  There was a time when you saw no visible minorities in the civil service, and major corporations. One of the first jobs I had before going to university, the company I worked for had a reputation in the community for not hiring “visible minorities”, “foreignors”, or women. A manager could be fired for doing so. Unfortunately, it took legislation to change that, people wouldn’t change by themselves. One of my university professors came to Canada from Poland during the Second World War and by coincidence, worked as a farm labourer for several years not far from my home. He was a doctor, with several university degrees, and was considered a world expert in microbiology before he died. I would like to think humanity has come a long way since then.




     One typical bigotted comment that was made in this paper some time ago was that the British had “graciously allowed the French to keep their language”. That’s the kind of thinking that also led to cultural genocide against Canada’s First Nations. I know of no waring or conquering nation on the face of the earth that could ever be called “gracious”, whether it’s the British, French, Spanish, or even the ancient Romans. Like it or not, they were all guilty of crimes against humanity. The French language in this country is part of our Canadian heritage, all of us, especially so here in Ontario. It’s just as important as any historical building,site or event, and it’s something that has to be preserved as part of what it is that made us, makes us, Canadians. It takes sacrifice and effort to achieve that, usually on the part of a few, like the Highland Games and Oktoberfest. How many Ontarians know what “The Gay Gordons” are, or can dance the St.Bernard’s Waltz. How much can we afford to loose?




     It’s amazing how petty bigotry can get, like the recent attacks on the Franco-Ontario flag, and the placement of French & English on road-signs.There are well over a thousand flags in use in Ontario alone. The United Empire Loyalists have had their own flag ever since they first came to Ontario, 200 years after Ontario francophones. Virtually every cultural group or organization,church and religious organization you can think of have their own flags, without being the slight bit “divisive”.Just a few examples include the Canadian Belgium and Dutch Association and the Polish Canadian Club in Chatham, Ontario, The Canadian Portugese Association of Leamington, Ontario, and the Teutonia Club of Windsor. The United Church of Canada, Knight’s of Columbus, CWL, SD&G and virtually every forestry, mining and automobile company you can think of, have their own flag. The list, and I actually tried to make one, goes on, and on, and on. So what really is the problem with Franco-Ontarians having their own flag, other than racism or bigotry on the part of the critics.




   Now we come to road signs. Would anyone ever think of putting the words “Long Sault Village of” in that order, on a road-side. Maybe some illiterate frenchman?  But that’s exactly what some would have you do with the French part. Incidently, the placement of words does not always put the French “first”, or “on top”, as any high-school graduate should be able to figure out for themselves. The arguement is infantile. Also, when it comes to roadsigns in this area, we should remember that as much as 95% of our tourism comes or came from Quebec. Ask anyone who lived along the access routes from the 401, or the #2 highway west of Cornwall in the 1970’s, how much of the lines and lines of traffic waiting to get to the Long Sault Parkway were from Quebec?  It’s a big part of our tourism industry in this area that our local politicians, especially at the municipal level, have a duty to protect and cultivate. On my last trip to Upper Canada Village recently, there were 5 large tour buses in the parking lot, all from Quebec, and all of the passengers speaking French. Outside of all the other considerations it’s just good business sense to cater to your market.




     Critics should also stop using Quebec as an excuse. We live in Ontario, not Quebec, and it’s Ontario heritage we are talking about. If your next door neighbour on your street commits suicide, are you going to do the same thing for spite or revenge? I hope not. My earliest ancestors came to Canada over 400 years ago and settled in Nova Scotia, around Quebec City, and the tip of south-western Ontario, east of Fort Detroit. When one of my ancestors migrated to Ontario from Quebec he was accompanied by a family of Belangers and Campbells, and that part of my family tree includes names like Schmit, Hickey, MacDonnell and Schreibert, the later being a descendant of a German mercenary from Wolfe’s army. All of these people were fluent in French. To-day 90% of their descendants have lost their French. To-day only 25% of my grand-children speak French, simply because they had to move to uniligual areas of the province where there are no French schools available.




     As for finding a job, anyone who expects Cornwall, SD&G, or any other area for that matter, to hire all of it’s local graduates isn’t living in the real world. The more complex your field of endeavor, the more likely you are to have to move, several times, in order to be successful in your career, even if you always work for the same company. There are only so many promotions availeable in any given place.  If you’re unilingual English, maybe you’re lucky in a way, because some say 95% of Ontario is unilingual English. This area is 30% francophone, so on that basis alone you should expect at least 30% of the jobs to be bilingual.




    If you want to talk equality, and if this area is 30% +or- francophone, then 30% of the CCH jobs should be unilingual French, and 70% unilingual English. That will never happen, it’s absurd, so the so-called equality arguement is absurd. Language is, and always has been, a marketable skill in addition to any other qualification, no matter where you go in the world. There are jobs out west where fluency in Japanese is a requirement of the job (ex Jasper and Banff areas), for the simple reason that some business operators deal only with Japanese tourists, from Japan. If nothing else, it’s a courtesy to their customers. In Gravenhurst, Ontario, you’ll find jobs that require a working knowledge of Chinese. Why? Because Gravenhurst is the home of Bethune Memorial National Historic Site. Beside being a Canadian of National historic significance, Dr. Norman Bethune is also a very important national hero throughout China. Virtually every delegation or group that comes to Canada from China visits Gravenhurst. Several years ago I attended a tourism related workshop/conference in the San Francisco-Los Angeles area of California. I brought home tourist publications in no less than 7 different languages, both government and private. Someone was hired who could work in those languages as a job requierement to produce those publications. The land mass of Europe in it’s entirety, with how many languages, can be dropped inside Canada with room left over. Here in Canada we can’t even accommodate our two founding nations or their languages, our own people. What does that say about the intellect of Canadians on the world stage?

Roger E Roy – Long Sault Ontario



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Cornwall Free News







  1. All of the above comments have left out a main ingredient.THIS IS NOT A LANGUAGE ISSUE,what it is , is a group of mostly CCH workers fighting unfair hiring practices, They all appreciate having french as a asset ….not a requirement where some french speaking people themselves cannot pass the advance testing,Education & experience must come first, not only for fairness but for patient safety.This could have been over nearly from the start if only common sense would prevail at CCH & the city.

  2. Roger E Roy you are off your rocker. As Mariah said, French is an asset. CCH is outright discriminating. They are choosing language over merit. I suggest you do a bit of research before spouting off at the mouth in such a lengthy letter.

  3. We can go back before Confederation which was the joining of British collonies ( Upper Canada / Lower Canada) with New Brunswick & Nova Scotia by the way.
    The Paris Treaty of 1763 is where France gave up on North America. Britan in 1774 signed the Quebec Act allowing the British province of Quebec to keep some rights.

    No one wants to stop all Canadians from receiving health care or services, common sense about it though is needed, and stopping French only speakers and English only speakers from getting jobs where the majority is reflected, is not a good situation.
    Why are we allowing “bilingual” people to be hired first? How does that not provide a class system?

    Canada is very accomodating to everyone, have you tried an ATM in Toronto? Seen some of the funding to multiculturism? Yet there is still a push by a few!

  4. Roger E. Roy, your arguments sound very legitimate until you stop to think that nobody is arguing against providing French-language services in an area that has a large number of French-speakers. If 30% of the population is bilingual, it would seem reasonable that 30% of the staff should be bilingual. So why would the hospital advertise ALL their nurses’ positions with the caveat that French is essential or imperative? Only when they cannot get bilingual applicants do they even consider a unilingual applicant. In some cases, they are willing to spend thousands of dollars to send the bilingual (but not qualified candidate) to get the professional qualification needed – does this make sense to you?

    As a French-speaker, I understand that you are anxious to use your communication skills to support this policy that gives the French-speakers a decided advantage. Knowing that the French language is a minority language, only spoken by a small portion of Canadians (3.1% outside Quebec, according to the 2006 census), it will never be fair to use it as the criteria for jobs anywhere in Canada outside Quebec. The fact that you refuse to allow any reference to Quebec in this debate shows that you can only see this problem from the point of view of a French-speaker who wants your cake and eat it too.

    It is because of Quebec that we have this discriminatory policy that is making the majority of Canadians into 2nd class citizens based on a minority language. Quebec produced three leaders from the Liberal Party who used subterfuge and lies to convince Canada that Quebec is the lynch-pin holding Canada together and that, without Quebec, Canada would fly apart. After more than 40 years and the poor behaviour of Quebec in persecuting and prosecuting the English-speaking minority and in developing a province that is so dangerously Socialist, more and more Canadians are ready to let Quebec go.

    It is also disingenuous of you to refer to the other linguistic groups and the need of other languages to be given any recognition in Canada – please bear in mind that NONE of those languages are protected in the same way as French is and NONE of them get the billions in funding that artificially gives French the life-support that it is on. ALL of them are in response to a real need, not the artificial one forced on us by legislation.

    The amount of tax-payer dollars that have been poured down this path of keeping the French language and culture alive at the expense of the majority English-speakers is doing nothing but making your tribe the most disliked and despised group in Canada.

    If you have any sense of fairness in your bones, you would support the call for this policy to be “where numbers warrant”. This was in the original Official Languages Act and part of the reason why it was passed – why do you push your advantage to the point where your French-language extremists have been allowed to force the issue beyond any reasonable limits.

  5. I disagree with Kim Lian Khoo’s comment:”Roger E. Roy, your arguments sound very legitimate”. There is nothing persuasive or factual in Roy’s comments – they are purely polemic ~ a long whining, accusatory diatribe slinging the usual meaningless name-calling at anyone who has the nerve to question his unequal and unfair privileges. We have heard this a thousand times before; indeed, it appears to be the only real argument that can be made to support this outrageous and divisive notion that people should be given a job just because they function in a particular language that is completely unnecessary to perform that job.

    The facts are thus: preferential hiring based upon anything other than competence has eroded Canada’s efficiency and competitiveness. This country has now dropped to 12th place in labour productivity rankings up against the US and European countries, other developed nations, all of which have as great or even more generous and questionable social justice agendas relating to affirmative action and preferential hiring of minorities. Our national productivity has been dropping steadily over the last few decades and the one single factor that makes us different from these nations is the federal, and now even provincial in this case and others, practice of hiring based solely on a person’s ability to speak French. It seems that once the notion set in among French-speaking Canadians that they no longer needed to train or perform to get and keep a good job that earned them high incomes and great perks and pensions, they simply decided – why bother.

    When did Ontario, where very few even speak French and I can safely say no one does NOT speak English, decide it was sound public policy to force English-speaking people to tolerate second-class citizenship to the tiny French-speaking population? It is bad enough that Quebec has these insular, xenophobic laws. Why are you Ontario folks not marching in the streets and throwing bricks thru the windows of businesses as the “entitlement” Quebec students are doing these days? So long as our federal gov’t continues to pander to this inequality and favoritism our country will continue to slip further and further into debt. Using social policy to determine economic policy is nothing but self-perpetuating ruin. Why would broke Ontario join this proven road to economic disaster? We here in Alberta, not only the richest province but the one with the greatest labour productivity output too, can only prop Quebec, Ontario and the rest of the French minority up forever.

    Now, Mr. Roy, this should spur your self-righteous, moral indignation to give you an entire new impetus to think up a whole new, or repetitive, set of polemic verbiage to fling at me. But please, Kim, do not confuse histrionics for truth.

  6. Wow! Kim you have really batted this concept right out of the park! I think you best grasp the issues at hand here and the real concepts behind what is going on. I would like also to add that other minority languages/institutions should be supported instead of the unfair advantages received by those promoting the French language. These French language zealots seem to mask behind the so-called ‘protecting’ of the French language when in reality legislation such as the FLSA actually is creating an unfair playing field for people who’s primary language is French….they are getting the best jobs and the social service/cultural structure catering to people using French language services are receiving the lion’s share of government funds.

    Why not have government finances support other languages/institutions instead? Funding/legislation would best serve in the interests of the real ‘disadvantaged’ in our society. Why not have some funding available for say the ‘ALRASHID ISLAMIC INSTITUTE’ outside of Cornwall. I’m sure organizations such as this could use the money?

  7. Dear Public First and for most thank you all who have support us in the effort for fairness and equality. The responses have been an eye opener, It just goes to show you how some people think and how they understand. And their are so many people who want to make a stand but are intimidated and scared for the back lash. If someone you know was hurting and you wanted to help and try and make a difference and make things easier for them, would you not try? Life can be very stressful, In my eyes it is about caring for each other an be and do the best we can. Canada has always been about true of Heart , Strong and free, Love for our fellow patriots. So come on S,D&G EQUALITY FOR ALL. Also Thank you Kim Lian Khoo for a Great comment. All responses are of freedom of speech.. Cathy Jodoin

  8. @Mr Roy, Everything you have said about Francophone’s either living or visiting Ontario can be said about the Anglophone’s living and or visiting, or more likely passing through, Quebec. Why is it Ontario is funded/expected/ legislated to provide french signs, workers etc when Quebec isn’t required to. Do you not think that the anglophones of Ontario want to keep their heritage as well? Do you not think that the anglophones in Quebec would also? You Mr. Roy are a bigot.

  9. everyone is entitled to have their own opinion. however it is unfortunate that hospitals have to compromise patient care in order to get extra funding anywhere they can e.g. seeking and accepting flsa money. this and many other recent initiatives to balance the books have led to bed cuts and low employee morale. this is not in the patients best interest. french language services were never a problem in the past and hallway nursing wasnt the norm either. please stop to get as much info on what is actually happening today in cornwall rather than arguing the past.

  10. puzzled, Ontario has more than enough money to provide the services we need, how it is spent is another matter that divides along party lines and ideology.

    I challenge everyone to perform a couple of searches on Type in “Anglophone Association Ontario” and search through till you find, say 3 groups, that are taking money from taxpayers to promote English. The Anglo society of Windsor Ontario does not count, they are supporting British immigrants.

    Trick question, there is none. Now try “Francophone Association Ontario”. How easy was that?
    L’Assemblée de la francophonie de l’Ontario took in over a million dollars from government and government related funding in 2010/2011. How many hospital beds and Nurses would that pay for? How many other associations are getting similar amounts, less or more?

  11. Two founding nations? Trudeau invented that concept didn’t he? Outside of Quebec, French speakers have never been the dominant culture or founders of the nation. Neither did Ontario evolve from Quebec. Unfortunately self serving politicians of all stripes have seen fit to elevate the habitant culture and language of Quebec artificially, and far beyond what the numbers outside of that province warranted. Every province now has a Francophone society funded by every level of government. Sadly the same can’t be said about the way Quebec’s ‘pur laine’ treats it’s own minorities. There are bigots and racists everywhere, but racism is not institutionalized in English Canada. Indeed many minority languages including those of our Aboriginal people are supported. French in Canada is a regional language at best, and that is how it should be treated. To promote French ahead of English in English speaking Canada is ridiculous and a recipe for disaster. It should be enough to have translation facilities.

  12. This debate coming from a city that doesn’t have one non-white person working at a Pitt St. store is drole. You ever met a non-white person employed in Cornwall? It’s rare. As for the French – you will accept French and back down just like your racist parents and grand parents did while you educate your bigot children. What a backward, hateful little town. Kornwall Klan Kapers.

  13. We are behind you 1oo percent Cathy, and the rest of the nurses who are working in an environnment that consciously discriminates the health care workers. Knowing that the CCH is not allowing the best person for the job, especially in the health care field is scary. I will never bring my family members there nor will I ever donate any money to a hospital who is more interested in providing a language to the 2 percent francophone in Cornwall. Yes everyone, there are less than 2 percent of people in cornwall that can’t speak english. Some of you need to give your heads a shake. Our country and province is BROKE but yet you want the majority of the people to pay for this bilingual BS. We need to get our economy back on track and stop spending $ billions on this crap. As for you Ben, we all know who the bigots are. Just take a ride 45 minutes to the east on the 401. I bet you have some racist relatives residing there. By the way Ben, there are many new Canadians working and own many businesses in cornwall and area. Most bilingual people with brains agree with me as well.

  14. There is some indirect commentary about the costs associated with the liberal-initiated Official Languages Act, so let’s get specific.
    Although no federal government will own up to the true cost to tax payers for this one piece of legislation, conservative estimates declare that amounts to something north of $500 BILLION dollars since inception in 1969. Looked at another way, if not for that legislation (which does not now nor has ever reflected the desires of the majority of Canadians) there would be no national debt.
    The former leader of the Reform Party of Canada and the former leader of the Canadian Alliance Party supported revocation of the Official Languages Act (OLA). And that position made good sense from a tax point of view. Perhaps that sentiment changed in favour of supporting the OLA if looked at as a job creation issue. Either way the current government lacks the will to address the elimination of our national debt. Eliminating that one piece of legislation would effectively stop the monetary hemorrhaging called the national debt.
    Unfortunately, the NDP also lack the intelligence and political will to address that issue as well.
    Are there any leaders in our country who would lead a populist movement to revoke the OLA and save the country from the horrendous burden of the national debt?

  15. Speaking of the NDP –
    Federally the NDP have a bill wanting more Canadian jobs to be filled by bilingual only, reducing opportunity in the search for the best person which may or may not be bilingual.

    Provincially, the Ontario NDP have a bill wanting to increase powers of the French Language Commissioner. We all know what more powers can do. Be sure to read the so called debate section, it is all self promotion! No opposition is actually debating.

  16. Roger, the onus is on francos to integrate and assimilate. You are the losers and anglos are the victors. You might not like it, but you can’t change the history. It’s beyond absurd to expect us, anglos, to preserve and advance your French language to our own detriment. The degree our politicians are accommodating your tribe is sheer lunacy.

  17. A couple corrections to comments above: “Ontario never evolved from Quebec”…..Quebec was divided not once, but twice, into Upper and Lower Canada, or Ontario and Quebec as we know them to-day. Quebec extended from Labrador , along the St. Lawrence Valley, all of the Great Lakes well down into the United States of to-day. Well documented even on the internet. “French speakers have never been the dominant culture or founder ot the nation”….. French was the dominant culture and language throughout the 17th. and most of the 18th. centuries. Documented even in British army journals.

  18. @Roger…….French was the dominant culture and language throughout the 17th. and most of the 18th. centuries. Documented even in British army journals.

    Absolutely!!!! The Crimean War will attest to that also.

    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)

  19. Not sure what you mean stellabystarlight, the Crimean war saw Britain and France working together, there were at least 2 religions plus Russia and 5 languages involved.

    Roger, I don’t buy the bigotry, racism etc you mention in this never ending conflict. the problem with the Franco Ontario flag is that all taxpayers pay for it and it is put up 60 foot flag poles as if marking their territory. Do Anglophones do that? Certainly not in Lamoreux Park, there is a large difference between the Loyalist monument and the Francophone structure (part of the 12 or 13 monuments project). Take a look at the Montfort hospital monument, is that welcoming to all?

    The French should be just as pissed off, English only or French only are 3rd class, behind bilingual and other minorities.

  20. My comments, and those I responded to are about Canada, in North America, and have nothing to do with the Crimean War.

  21. “All taxpayers” do not pay for the Franco Ontario flag anymore than any other flag in use in Ontario. Where did you get that idea?

  22. First of all the Ontario flag represents all Ontario residents, the Franco flag does not. Where does the money come from to fly the Franco flag at the schools if not all taxpayers? The Cornwall monument was given over 23,000 dollars from Trillium Ontario, which is all taxpayers as well, and I remember reading that the local French board was to provide the Franco flags there.

    Anyway, the point is that being called names for a well founded point of view is silly and those people could be just trying to distract from fixing problems.. Do some research on the funding from French schools going to the Franco events, you will be amazed, and my point to that is this. If something is worthwhile, government help in providing seed money can be a good thing, but not paying more and more each year.

    A good example of that is the Franco Ontario Festivale in Ottawa. 17 years ago the federal government provided $100,000 as seed money to make the event self sustaining, well that never happened. We need to reasses all costs and the over promotion in many areas.

  23. @ Eric. All kinds of cultural festivals and organizations get funding from all levels of government. So, you’d be OK with that as long as the Franco ones are disqualified for funding?

  24. Furtz, the issue is more profound and we don’t know half of the funding.Did anyone ever find out if that St Alberts festival had any English acts? The city of Ottawa demands childcare centers getting 30% funding from them to have bilingual staff, there is no such stipulation for French daycare. Obvious lack of fairness that Anglo’s don’t talk about, can we say the same about Franco’s?

    We for the most part, want the same things, but too much government forcing an agenda with money from all is a different story.

  25. Eric, If your real concern is bilingual hiring policies, why muddy your argument with piffle about the funding of cultural events?

  26. Furtz, because dozens of Francophone associations have paid staff ( from tax dollars) to ask for more tax dollars, you really need to address everything at once. Besides, the politicians don’t want to touch anything that may affect a vote.

    Hiring policies, well the Ontario public service now consists of 8% Francophone while the population is closer to 4. Language and other minority status promotions effectively removes fairness from the hiring process.
    Certainly an issue is being encouraged to work in the language you choose and to be supervised in the language you choose. Over time then instead of being client focused, your staff need to be bilingual. So even hiring has several tangents going on at the same time.

    Where are these bilingual people going to come from? The census numbers, outside of Quebec, show little change.

  27. Eric, you say politicians won’t touch it because they will lose votes? Kinda makes sense to me that politicians would try to do what the voters want, and try not do what the voters don’t want. Isn’t that how politics works in a democracy?

  28. English folks don’t organize well when they are infected with the liberal disease of helping others. LOL
    But take a look at the brass and organizers of these parties, Francophone or Francophile. Anyone who has worked in multicultural large offices can follow the hiring trail.

  29. If you study enough history, you soon realize that white Europeans and their descendants have been responsible for more death and destruction, genocides and war crimes, than any other race on the planet. The attitude of conquests and the conquered, losers and victors, persists even to this day in enough individuals to force one to ask if it’s really possible to ever become truely civilized. Canada is large enough to contain the entire land mass of Europe and the British Isles, with all its languages and cultures, within its borders and still have room left over, yet some Canadians have difficulty dealing with only 2 official languages. Are Canadians not bright enough? If every other “conquered” nation on the planet can do it, what’s wrong with Canada?

  30. Roger E. Roy you purport to be by your comments a proponent of social engineering . We struggle to deal with the consequences of human nature no doubt, how some can think that we can change human nature has always been a source of mild amusement to me.

    The question was posed, “what’s wrong with Canada?” and I would respond that as a nation we are still in our infancy and therefore as human nature would have it, are simply still acting like children. We are a work in progress going through the growing pains of our youth. Hopefully we are attentive students for a brighter more harmonious future .

  31. I have difficulty right now with reading signs as i travel down the road , I read left to right and when Bilingual signs are poorly designed and bastardize the English language in an area were clearly the majority read English shows that has bilingualism gone wild.
    Of course Mtr Roy has NO ability to understand this as he reads French so no matter what the language “he has no problem.” so he can’t even comment on this statement with any ability .

    Signs are also very critical to safety on the roads etc and when the french sign is designed in this fashion or two signs are displayed and are to closely spaced and the french is first by the time your mind comprehends the english as been passed.

    I know my words to Mr Roy say i am a Bigot but I am not if you read closely i am just saying design is key to the sign and if kids spend there life learning the french language often getting lower marks but in the end they succeed in getting that french certificate then that should count as being Bilingual for if it is not then they been cheated and lied to and is proof that Bilingualism will never work for the majority of Canadians but a way to create jobs for French first language people who speak English.

    So if bilingualism is to work there needs to be rules set up it not about language its about conveying a message so where the majority are bilingual then it makes only sense to have signs in English to the left so the majority and the minority can read. This is especially important here in Cornwall where the majority of bilingual people can speak but have problems reading french having chosen to take basic french in High school to many years ago in order to prop up there averages that allowed them a better chance to attend the university of there choice . a fact from the 60’s and 70’s and today a english person with a government french certificate at the end of their education are shocked to find out it not worth the wait of the paper its written on .

    maybe one day Spanish will be the Majority or Chinese just how big will our signs in Canada be if we follow the logic of today reality ! Will you need to speak chinese to rise to a commission officers position in our Canadian Armed services( believe you now must be bilingual) just in case you need to talk to a non commission soldier or would it make more sense to have one language across the services like flight controllers.

  32. Good insights reality check. We have a continuous flow of adding French laws and policies, so over time, there will only be guarantees for French by law. Don’t be fooled by words like “equality”, “equal in size and quality” etc.

    Concerns of social engineering for filght controllers reality check, have been around for decades.,3691726

  33. @ reality check. Perhaps it is time for you quit driving if you are having difficulty reading or understanding road signs.

  34. Yep, more rules, that is what we need, yep that will definitely solve the problem. Let’s get right on that. Problem rectified. Next !

  35. @ David. One has to be able to read and understand road signs in order to drive safely. Even you should be able to grasp that concept. No?

  36. Shapes work for me Furtz. You know octagons, triangles various squiggly lines and shapes with a diagonal line drawn through them…….

  37. Furtz, the difficulty is in the consistency of placement. Drive south on Brookdale from the 401, some signs have French first and some have English first. English being the language that almost 98% of Ontario speaks, and is the defacto language of Ontario(8 provinces), should be first, on the left or above as the case may be.

    We hear Francophones talk of respect, well respect that! English in an official language!

  38. Hi folks ,Been off a little… decided not debate those who through social engineering remain blind to reasoning.

    reality check great insight ,

    David It also works in many other countries as well, even when you do not understand the native tongue.

    This I admit is from wiki .

    “Political engineering is a concept in political science that deals with the designing of political institutions in a society and often involves the use of paper decrees, in the form of laws, referendums, ordinances, or otherwise, to try to achieve some desired effect within a society.”

    -FLSA-is just one of many entities that through political manipulation they can ENCOURAGE a populous to RE-EDUCATE to the desired job requirement ” BILINGUAL ” .

    “Social engineering is a discipline in social science that refers to efforts to influence popular attitudes and social behaviors on a large scale, whether by governments or private groups.”

    Yes we see it all the time with regards to bilingualism -Yes provincial and Federal Governments as well as the 700+ organized non-profit groups funded by various governments to lobby government entities for French services where there is no definition to “where numbers warrant.”

  39. Note of interest: I could be wrong but I believe the Trillium Foundation is funded by lotteries, not taxpayers, and their guidelines apply to a very wide range of cultural activities and projects like most other foundations. Language has nothing to do with it.

  40. Trillium has one person who only deals with Francophone requests and funding comes from Ministry of Tourism, Culture and Sport: I doubt lottery amounts would factor into the building, administrative and pensions though. The reason for this group is to give out money, mostly by grant and we already pay 10 billion a year to service the debt.
    Roger, no mater the language, we should not continually provide money to help these groups pay for staff to further a language cause.

  41. The Ministry of Tourism, Culture and Sport is the government department that oversees Ontario’s lotteries. The funding for the Ontario Trillium foundation comes from the monies collected from those lotteries which were set up for that purpose, not from tax monies. 10 billion a year to service the debt comes from tax monies, not lotteries, and has nothing to do with Trillium. The Foundation is managed and directed mostly through VOLUNTEERS and a board of directors,and there are over three hundred and fifty volunteers involved in the grant selection process. Four broad categories of grants include: 1. Arts and Culture, 2. Environment, 3. Human and Social Services 4. Sports and Recreation. Grants are usually distributed to charitable and non-profit organizations. Again we don’t “provide the money” it comes from people who buy lottery tickets.

  42. @ Roger. You are correct. The Trillium Foundation is funded from the money people voluntary flush down the huge lottery toilet. Not tax revenue.

  43. Edit “voluntarily”

  44. HIGHLANDER welcome back I always enjoy your input !

  45. Furtz your comment @ reality check. “Perhaps it is time for you quit driving if you are having difficulty reading or understanding road signs.” That’s just ignorant Furtz.
    I too can attest to missing the English sign because it is positioned to close behind the French sign. So if I didn’t interpret the French message and if I didn’t back up to read the English, then I suppose I could end up in the river now couldn’t I. Have to wonder if any thought is put into the positioning of the two signs other than French first, French first.

  46. Sorry Rosie, but maybe it’s time for you to hang up the car-keys too. Millions of people drive in and around Ottawa and eastern Ontario every day without difficulty. We all reach a point, if we live long enough, that we have to quit driving. That’s not disrespectful or “ignorant”. It’s just a fact.

  47. Time for another protest…..either a protest or we write to the language commissioner. Enough is enough. People are being killed everyday because of the road signs. English must be dominant if we want to keep this nation safe.

  48. Stella……Where on earth do you get such ridiculous information. First it was the Crimean War involed with Canada, and now people being killed every day because of road signs. Really! Can you even give just one example

  49. I’ve done a little searching for stats on accidents, injuries, deaths, etc as a direct result of bilingual road signs. Haven’t found any yet. Maybe somebody here can come up with some numbers or post a link. I notice as I get older that street signs are getting smaller, and the printing on highway signs isn’t as clear as it used to be. They just don’t make signs like they used to.

  50. Roger….relax hon, I don’t want you to be taking a stroke. Have you ever heard of the word sarcasm? Oh OK!!

    To be having a debate about language on signs, the size, which one should be on top or the bottom is futile and proves my point. There has been no major problems or fatalities because of the language on signs. So what is the big deal?

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