Discrimination
Discrimination. The big D word. A word most readily used by many though rarely meritable in its’ use. In our contemporary world of political correctness, discrimination is one of many ‘buzzwords’ that forms a politicians’ lexicon of verbal spaghetti. Political figures love to throw around the idea that one group of people are often discriminated against by another group of people or even by a nation’s laws. It is a fantastic vote grabber for those most instrumental in the art of politics. The truth however, in this day and age, is that rarely are modern-day laws discriminatory in their practice, right?
Wrong!
Have you ever heard of the concepts of affirmative action or what we like to call employment equity in Canada? These are concepts that were instituted into Canadian law to help level the playing field for those who have traditionally suffered the ill consequences of discrimination; especially in the job market. Under the Constitution Act of 1982, containing the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms; equity legislation is detailed therein. The Canadian Human Rights Act (CHRA) is enforced by the Canadian Human Rights Commission (CHRC) and it is this commission that deals with whether or not discrimination has taken place in the workplace.
The following details the issue of Prohibited Grounds of Discrimination in Canada: (Belcourt, Bohlander, & Snell, Managing Human Resources, 5th Canadian Edition, 2008).
Race or colour
Religion
Physical or mental disability
Dependence on alcohol or drugs
Age
Sex
Marital status
Family status
Sexual orientation
National or ethnic origin (including linguistic background)
Ancestry of place of origin
Language
Social Condition or origin
Source of income
Assignment, attachment or seizure of pay
Based on association
Political belief
Record of criminal conviction
Pardoned conviction
While appearing like a fair and equitable approach to the issue of fairness in hiring practices; employment equity actually creates the framework for unfair hiring criteria – whereby the best qualified person may be the most successful candidate but may not be chosen due to government imposed employment equity legislation. Case-in-point; consider the possibility of two highly qualified candidates applying for the same government or private sector industry, job. One candidate, a qualified counselor who, as a child, was raised in the atmosphere of a same sex marriage; understands the very real social challenges faced by his/her same sex parents. One could surmise that not only is this individual qualified as a counselor; but has the added experience of being raised in a non-traditional family setting, outside of the traditional nuclear family. The other candidate is also a highly qualified counselor but is a homosexual. By the very definition and reasoning for employment equity, chances are that the successful candidate will be chosen due to his/her sexuality and not necessarily for his/her skills.
Another scenario if you will. Imagine an Aboriginal couple fostering a non-Aboriginal child who is raised and immersed in Aboriginal culture. He/she has a university/college education associated with his/her chosen field; speaks an Aboriginal language, is well-versed in the culture and customs associated with the First Nation and has all the credentials required of someone who could work for a government or non-government Aboriginal organization. The other candidate also has some or most of these qualifications but has one added qualification. Their ethnicity or race is of a First Nation. Once again, by the very definition and reasoning for employment equity, chances are that the successful candidate will be chosen due to his/her ethnicity or race and not necessarily for his/her skills.
Sound like rare or improbable cases and scenarios to you? I can attest that they’re not. They’re increasingly happening everyday in Canada and Human Resources professionals have had to contend with the issue of unfair hiring criteria that these laws have created since at least 1995 with the Employment Equity Act.
If you think at this point that our Canadian employment laws are unfair and unjustified then I have even more bad news for you. Consider the above information I’ve provided about Employment Equity. Add to this the increasingly unfair bilingual language requirements as well and you can see where things are headed. A politically correct society where in the quest for fairness we’ve permitted a very unfair system to flourish unchallenged by the people themselves. We need to ask ourselves if Canada’s employment and language laws are really a reflection of what we encompass and value as a society or if our various levels of government are attempting through social engineering, to shape and mould the people’s consciousness to the system itself. In other words, do the people work for the system or should the system work for the people?
Ever heard of the concept of a ‘bona fide occupational qualification’? Believe it or not, this concept currently exists in Canada and it allows for discrimination in hiring! That’s right folks. You read that correctly. In the very ‘Act’, the Canadian Human Rights Act (CHRA) whose existence is to prohibit discriminatory hiring practices there exists government-sponsored discriminatory hiring! As Belcourt et al. reports (2008):
The act applies to all federal government departments and agencies, to Crown corporations, and to other businesses and industries under federal jurisdiction, such as banks, airlines, railway companies, and insurance and communications companies. For those areas not under federal jurisdiction, protection is available under provincial human rights laws. Provincial laws, although very similar to federal ones, do differ from province to province. Every province and territory has a human rights act (or code), and each has jurisdiction prohibiting discrimination in the workplace. The prohibited grounds of discrimination in employment include race, religion, sex, age, national or ethnic origin, physical handicap, and marital status…Employers are permitted to discriminate if employment preferences are based on a bona fide occupational qualifications (BFOQ) or BFOR (bona fide occupational requirement). A BFOQ is justified if the employer can establish necessity for business operations. In other words, differential treatment is not discrimination if there is a justifiable reason. (106)
This sounds an awful lot like Orwell’s, Animal Farm, where Commandment #7 which originally stated that:
“All animals are equal”
Was eventually changed to,
“All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others”
Is this the kind of Canada we want to live and work in? Surely the ideology of an individual’s rights should trump group rights in all respects. Should it not? Otherwise, we need to ask ourselves if we truly live in a democracy where all citizens enjoy the same rights and privileges as all others. As of this writing, the majority of our citizenry cannot work for their civil service or hold the highest office of the land due to nothing more than a lack of knowledge of one of Canada’s minority languages.
Please keep in mind that,
“All Canadians are equal, but some Canadians are more equal than others”
Cory Cameron
Timmins, On
Sunday August 25, 2013
(Comments and opinions of Editorials, Letters to the Editor, and comments from readers are purely their own and don’t necessarily reflect those of the owners of this site, their staff, or sponsors.)
Please click the banner below and subscribe to CFN. We need 100 subscribers by September 2013 to bring back Seaway Radio!
Hungry for the Truth….
September 21, 2013 at 3:44 pm
highlander September 21, 2013 at 3:17 pm
“I do not blame the French people for our language apartheid but the governments for setting up the conditions for it to thrive.”
You should run for politics. The French people are represented by their FRENCH government. It’s kind of hard of not blaming one without the other.
The French people =The French Government. = The same.
~
bella
September 21, 2013 at 6:11 pm
Hungry for the Truth….
September 21, 2013 at 3:44 pm
The French people =The French Government. = The same.
Your equation would lead one to believe that this new fancy Quebec Values Charter that is being put forth by the Quebec government, has the support of all French people. WOULD YOU MAKE SO BOLD A STATEMENT??? OR DOES THE EQUATION ONLY WORK IN CERTAIN INSTANCES AS NEEDED??
On October 4, 2013 at 3:27 pm stellabystarlight wrote, “@yorlik…….great news!!!! It is nice to hear that things are being done to maintain both official languages in this country.”
“Great news?” “IN THIS COUNTRY?” huh???
You must yet again be excluding the “province” of Quebec as part of this country CANADA. I can totally understand how you would do that considering Marois is going around “pretending” that she is a “premier” of a country.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SMIpA2vA8k&hd=1
Now, if she is the “premier” of a “separate country” then the ROC is getting ripped off because we are sending cash money (taxes and transfer payments) to that “place” she reigns over as if it still is the province of Quebec.
And please let’s not be silly. We ALL KNOW there is NOTHING being done to “maintain one of the official languages” (English) in THAT PROVINCE …
@Hungry for the Truth RE: POST on October 4, 2013 at 11:58 am Lives for lies wrote,
“English / French signs does not = a loss for any one, it = fair representation.”
It certainly does represent a loss Mr. lives for lies. It represents a LOSS OF FREE WILL and A LOSS OF FREE DEMOCRATIC CHOICE.
A concept that you obviously have no problem with in regards to how free choice was removed from and legislated away from the Anglophone Canadian people inside the province of Quebec.
Where English must be smaller. Can’t call that “fair” representation can we?
“English must be like dat and French like dat, twice bigger”
http://youtu.be/sxeQpGasEME?t=2m9s
But somehow that same old double standard mentality which is so prevalent from you and your clan creeps in and voila… It’s OK to force different rules upon the Anglophones outside of the province of Quebec.
Why does it always seem to be that EVERYONE is doing what the French want and how “they want it done” there lives for lies?
How is it that they, as the minority, get to set the rules both inside the province of Quebec and outside the province of Quebec? What gives them such authority and superior rights?
Do tell…
oh but, before you lay out all of that wisdom upon us oh great one, i just want to wish you a
“I’m SPECCCHIIIAAALLL”
kind of day eh 🙂
“I am one of those FRENCH PEPOLE that you HATE.
And this hated French has JUST AS MUCH RIGHT TO SPEAK MY LANGUAGE and to have my RIGHTS RESPECTED any where in CANADA. I hope that it doesn’t ager you to much?”
Waiiiiiiiiiiiiit a minute here HFTT?
Didn’t you at one time or another or several times indicate you were not of French descent?
Can anyone search the forums for that?
Cory Cameron October 3, 2013 at 8:15 am
“I have more important things to do other than to trade tirades with you, HFTT.
Then allow me to suggest that next time the urge comes upon you do just that tend to your more important things.
“And, come to think of it, you also should have more important things to do as well. For someone so hard at work in his approach to working out a more fair and equitable hiring criteria for the CCH is it any wonder you have any time left over whatsoever to trade insults with the likes of other posters here on CFN.”
TIME MANAGEMENT…!! CAN you explain to me why I would have to justify the use of my TIME to YOU? And BTW you forgot my mention TIME for my JOB.
Thank-You for all that time BOSS. 10 days in business days= 6 days. HOW GENEROUS. In total since your last enquiry it’s been 31 days. Remove 1 Statutory day less 8 days for week-ends
leaves 22 business days…..I said I needed a bit of time, it’s not going to get done overnight but it will get done, and it will take more than 22 days.
Cory Cameron October 3, 2013 at 8:15 am
“If and when something like that takes place – I do have a request from you and your ilk. And should you have any decency, integrity and if you have learned anything in this lifetime; I sincerely, honestly and respectively ask that you and the others mind your business by not typing anything in response to get solicit/elicit any negative responses from LFA followers.”
WHAT IS THIS? ARE you censoring my RIGHT to free speech. HARPER may have a job for someone with the ability to oppress FREEDOM of your SPEECH.
You’re kidding right???? HOW can you be serious about such a violation of a persons Right. YOU ARE ADVOCATING CENSORSHIP TO MY COMMENTS?????
THIS SPEAKS VOLUMES AND IS VERY TROUBLELING.
“As in please stop with the bullying to those who have had enough of unfair hiring practices that favour Canada’s second largest ethnicity.”
IT IS NOT THE LAWS THAT CREATES UNFAIR HIRING PRACTICES. AND THE COMMENTS ABOUT THE FRENCH CANADIANS BEING WHINNERS AND LOOSERS, WHAT WOULD YOU CALL THAT PRAISE?
Cory Cameron October 3, 2013 at 8:15 am
“You know, come to think about it, I think you and the others should put your money where your mouth is and do show up to one of the public meetings;
My money has never been on LFA or CLFA NEVER. I have never once posted an iota of an incline that suggest an agreement or support to such a RADICAL AGENDA. On the CONTRARY
I POSTED disagreement to it and it’s RADICAL CONSULTANT LEADER.
“should we desire to have another one. I see the potential for real growth there. Don’t you?”
YOU are joking with your sarcasm RIGHT? GROWTH? EXPLAIN because I don’t understand after all the malicious insults and Character assassinations I’ve seen here, ANY logical person can see the outcome. NO clairvoyance required.
Cory Cameron October 4, 2013 at 5:52 pm
“Waiiiiiiiiiiiiit a minute here HFTT?
Didn’t you at one time or another or several times indicate you were not of French descent?
Can anyone search the forums for that?”
No Cory, the opposite is true. I have posted several Times that PARENTS mother tongue is FRENCH. I am FRENCH and have the ability to use the English language. Mais avant tout je suis “CANADIEN FRANCAIS”.
Hungry for the Truth…. September 30, 2013 at 12:49 pm
I have stated before that my father’s mother tongue is FRENCH. My father lives in ONTARIO. I have had many Ambulance Paramedics that did not speak FRENCH. Leaving my father unable to communicate. This happens in Ontario. Does he not have the Right to be served in FRENCH? Why is there English only speaking Paramedics in Ontario?
When the Cornwall Community hospital states on its website that it is required under law to provide services in both official languages, then HFTT, if you say it is not the FLS law that creates the unfair hiring practice, then what law would the hospital be referring to.
And another thing HFTT, when you say that just because a person learns another language, they should still have the right to speak their mother tongue, I ask you, where is my right to do the same? If you approached me in my place of work and spoke to me in French and I understood you and answered you in English, would I be able to keep my job? you would have a right to formally make a complaint but would I.
My education went well beyond high school, and included both graduate and post graduate studies , outside quebec.
My education also included a grounded perception of the reality of facts proven and supported by authors, and primary sources that seem to be absent from posts, such as those written by hftt.
For clarification of any one following, here are some basic Canada time lines.
http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/a-timeline-of-important-events-in-canadian-history.html
http://www.craigmarlatt.com/canada/history&people/history_timeline.html
http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/namerica/catimeln.htm
http://www.canadahistory.com/timeline.asp
http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCETimeline
Rosie October 4, 2013 at 9:38 pm
“When the Cornwall Community hospital states on its website that it is required under law to provide services in both official languages, then HFTT, if you say it is not the FLS law that creates the unfair hiring practice, then what law would the hospital be referring to.”
The French-language Service ACT requires that SERVICES be in both Official Languages.
The FLSA does not require ALL staff to be BILINGUAL.
CCH drafted HIRING Policies that require ALL staff to be BILINGUAL.
FLSA require ACCESS to french services. HOW many need FRENCH Services is measured with a Formula using Stats Canada DATA.
How many French speaking Canadians live in the Service area is what that DATA answers.
What it does not answer is HOW many ACTUALLY use french services in, A DAY-A WEEK-A MONTH-A YEAR???
Allow me to give you an example.
Let say in one day ER hypothetically has 200 patients.
178- needed medical services and received them in ENGLISH.
022- needed medical services and received them in FRENCH.
Out of those Patients 22 are admitted to the hospital.
Out of the 22
19 are English Speaking
03 are French Speaking
WHY should ALL staff be BILINGUAL?
The FLSA requires ACCESS to be served in FRENCH.
Hypothetically 200 beds
161 beds are occupied by English-speaking Patients
039 beds are occupied by French-speaking Patients
Why should ALL Staff be BILINGUAL?
If hypothetically there is 100 staff members in a shift
Realistically 70% could be English only with 30% Bilingual.
And the FLSA compliance would still be meet.
ACCESS to FRENCH SERVICES.
Hungry for (lies) wrote, “I have stated before that my father’s mother tongue is FRENCH. My father lives in ONTARIO. I have had many Ambulance Paramedics that did not speak FRENCH. Leaving my father unable to communicate. This happens in Ontario. Does he not have the Right to be served in FRENCH? Why is there English only speaking Paramedics in Ontario?”
No, NO, NO and NO… can you not read?
I already told you. These two language issues are NOT COMPARABLE in the way that you are trying to compare them.
Canada = COUNTRY
Quebec = province (nothing more, yet)
English = common language of the country Canada as a result of a victory in a battle to see who would determine such a thing.
French = regional language in the province of Quebec as a result of a loss in a battle however, the victors (the British) graciously allowed the French to stay and retain their language and culture without killing them off.
BIG DIFFERENCE and should contain an element of respect from the French which sadly IS NOT forthcoming.
Thus, Quebec should indeed be a separate country with it’s own French language NOT a province. Something which would solve all the problems as let’s face it, inside their own bloated heads that is what they “pretend to be.”
But, as long as Quebec is JUST A PROVINCE, then English should be known country wide where as French is NOTHING BUT A REGIONAL “provincial LANGUAGE.”
THUS –
Ambulance attendants in ALL OF Canada SHOULD ALL KNOW ENGLISH
Ambulance attendants (and other essential services which serve Canadian citizens in “the country” of Canada) which includes Quebec should know the language of the land — ENGLISH — and then, if they choose, they can know their “regional provincial” language as well…
THAT — is just common sense…
But, the French powers that be are trying (and, incidentally have been trying since forever) to ram this regional language down the throats of ALL OF CANADA and all non French Canadian citizens since they (the French) LOST THE WAR back in 1759.
They simply cannot accept defeat. They / you and your ilk are arrogant, self absorbed little babies with misplaced notions about where you fit and where your language SHOULD FIT also when taking into account the scenario where by you and your ilk were on the LOOSING end of the battle about the very idea of who decides which language was the ruling language” in this country.
And despite the — FACT — (yes, this is a fact) that the English were gracious winners and offered many kind gestures to the French and the French language in a generous manor which was intended to see to it that the concept of a wonderful “Frenchness” could — maybe — still exist within the midst of a great English / British Canadian landscape —
(which incidentally i thought was a superb idea and a great way to enjoy both cultures and languages)
— the French were not happy with that. They were, in essence, filled were greed and they lusted to have what they had lost without concern for how gracious their English combatants were back then.
And now, they are on a quest to “re-capture”, by whatever slimy means they can, that which they lost in those battles back in the day.
The moral of the story. Never give a looser a second chance.
Especially the French type as they have ZERO sense of respect or understanding of what it means to be humble when having been allowed to LIVE instead of being slaughtered and “done away with” to never be heard from again (as was commonly done to those who were defeated back in that era – 1759)
And on that note i would like to wish you a here’s hoping you one day
“attain the grace and learn about humility, respect and the perils of pushing the boundaries of the common decency of your fellow Canadians too far”
kind of day eh 🙂
It was one thing to RULE the province of Quebec (we let you have that one) but NOW … You and your ilk are going too far AND IT HAS TO STOP !!!
Rosie October 4, 2013 at 9:38 pm
“And another thing HFTT, when you say that just because a person learns another language, they should still have the right to speak their mother tongue, I ask you, where is my right to do the same?”
You should have that = RIGHT.
It is not the LAWS that are denying English-speaking Ontarian’s from jobs.
It’s the unrealistic incomplete EVALUATION DATA used to determine the ACTUAL need for French Services when drafting HIRING POLICIES.
.
“If you approached me in my place of work and spoke to me in French and I understood you and answered you in English, would I be able to keep my job?”
PRESENTLY NO. Because the CCH Hiring Policies requires you to be BILINGUAL not The French Languages Service Act.
IF these Unfair Policies were to be more reflective to the ACTUAL USAGE of French Services, you would be allowed to continue your Career in English .
If I entered the hospital for services and you could not speak French, but if you could say to me “Une minute S’il vous plait” and proceed to get a colleague that can SERVE me in FRECNH there is no reason why you can not have a job to serve the majority of 70% of patients needs. And give direct assistance to your BILINGUAL colleagues in serving the other 30%.
Can CCH tell me how may FRENCH speaking Canadians used FRENCH Services yesterday?
What they can tell me however is how many Catholics or Protestants ….etc. was served yesterday because they TRACK that DATA.
They do not track ACTUAL FRENCH SERVICE DELIVERY in one DAY. WHY?
For anyone looking for something to do and truly are INTERESTED about FACTUAL sources try these…..
Start with this, American professor Marc Levine wrote in his 1990 a book called The Reconquest of Montreal. READ IT…..then you can call him FACTUALLY UNGROUNDED.
After that search the internet (History of Quebec 1960′s)
After that Quebec Libraries. Quebec’s Fight for it’s Linguistic Rights.
After that Canadian Archives. Quebec in the 60′s
And take into account that some have lived in ENGLISH in Quebec for YEARS.
Others have friends, family that lived the ERA and have FACTS to share.
Rosie wrote: And another thing HFTT, when you say that just because a person learns another language, they should still have the right to speak their mother tongue, I ask you, where is my
right to do the same
You have that right…
Rosie wrote: If you approached me in my place of work and spoke to me in French and I understood you and answered you in English, would I be able to keep my job? you would have a right to formally make a complaint but would I.
Of course you would keep your job why not? Didn’t the woman from the post office in Timmins keep her job? It works both ways. As for making a complaint…..that is up to the individual, cory did.
@yorlik……
If peter piper picked a peck of pickled peppers
How many pickled peppers did peter piper pick?
Could you please find that answer on a you tube video
Hungry (for lies) mentioned)
“FRENCH SERVICE DELIVERY” outside of Quebec.
Most “necessity” for French service delivery outside of the province of Qis to people like Thibideau who can speak and understand English perfectly fine but believe they have a right IN CANADA to be served in french NO MATTER WHERE THEY GO while at the very same moment in time believe that it si perfectly OK to
Cory Cameron October 3, 2013 at 8:15 am
“At the very least, all dirty laundry can be aired and maybe something can be worked out?”
I think most of the laundry is washed. The airing has taken place. And in order to WORK something out it would take maturity and willingness to seek a solution. If I judge it from the posted comments and beliefs it would be like trying to get a UN resolution that the Earth is square. Sorry I’m not your FOOL for that job.
“It is obvious to anyone reading these posts over the last couple of years that there are proponents out there in internet land who don’t agree from where we stand on unfair government hiring policies. You, Stella, Richard and Furtz are the outspoken of those.”
And many others that never POST but read and agree or disagree.
“And so, what better way to rectify the situation HFTT, than to have an old fashioned town hall type meeting to hash things out?”
WHY add INSULT to injury. The obvious animosity and anger that has so far been contained behind the keyboards is real. Let that negativity flow in a face to face situation propelled by PERSONALITIES in a “TOWN HALL TYPE MEETING” what OUTCOME are you expecting?
“Wouldn’t you agree?”
If I was naive and had no experience in dealing with humans I would probably agree on the merit of the Idea. Having been exposed to some pretty vicious VERBAL ATTACKS sitting in the comfort of my home. I do not need a degree in Psychology to predict an outcome. So no I do not agree. If I felt for one second that we could resolve the differences I would be the first to sign-up
MAYBE? one day we can have that coffee you talked about and you could learn not to dislike me and un-hate me because I post disagreeing opinions in this forum????!
I do not take any thing posted as personal. I can appreciate and respect you as a fellow Canadian, although we may not share the same views about OUR CANADA. I have repeatedly commended
you for your courage and willingness to stand and Rally with proponents of the cause of Unfair Hiring Practices. And my opinion on this remains unwavering.
Tip of the hat to you for that. It’s not because you failed once that you should give up. Shake yourself off and try again. It’s a proven formula for HOPE and achieving Success.
Hungry (for lies) mentioned)
“FRENCH SERVICE DELIVERY” outside of Quebec.
Most “necessity” (for lack of a better word) for French service delivery outside of the province of Quebec is brought on by people like Thibideau who can speak and understand English perfectly fine but believe they have a right IN ALL OF CANADA to be served in French NO MATTER WHERE THEY GO and rather than revert to the common language of the country they stand defiant and demand to be served in French while at the very same moment in time these same A *H%LES believe that it is perfectly OK to diminish the English language and the English culture in the province of Quebec and outlaw it under the guise of some imagined threat that does not exist. i believe you fit in there also.
@HFTT thank you for sharing your post of October 5, 2013 at 10:24 am…….something worth looking up for sure. Getting the real facts is what counts and matters.
Tu fait bien ca….**sourire**
edudyorlik October 5, 2013 at 12:28 pm
“Most “necessity” for French service delivery outside of the province of Qis to people like Thibideau who can speak and understand English perfectly fine but believe they have a right IN CANADA to be served in french NO MATTER WHERE THEY GO while at the very same moment in time believe that it si perfectly OK to”
Your view is so narrowly focused and DISRESPECTFUL.
How about French-speaking Canadians like my father that was born of French Parents work all his life paid taxes, raised his family and because of his limited education was not able to master ENGLISH. He is severely linguistically challenged in comprehending English especially in a medical Institution.
Should he not have that RIGHT to be respected and spoken to in the language he understands.
Or would showing that kind of COMPASSION and Understanding deprive you of your RIGHT? speak and be spoken to in ENGLISH?
It’s not all about THE THIBIDEAU’s in this Region many FRANCOPHONES call home.
edudyorlikOctober 5, 2013 at 12:33 pm
“Hungry (for lies) mentioned)”
And you can rest assured that my Hunger is well served by most of the epistemic-rhetoric you post.
Thank-you for serving my so well with all your lies.
Hungry for the Truth…. October 5, 2013 at 10:19 am
” PRESENTLY NO. Because the CCH Hiring Policies requires you to be BILINGUAL not The French Languages Service Act.”
Hungry this is not just isolated to CCH ,BUT SYSTEMIC.
HEALTH UNIT 100% BILINGUAL.
CCAC 80% BILINGUAL
PROVINCIAL COURTS 75% BILINGUAL .
PROVINCIAL ENTITIES (PROVINCIAL SERVICES). 65% BILINGUAL
THE LIST GOES ON AND ON ARE THEY ALL AT FAULT OR HAS THE GOVERNMENT NOT SET A PROPER STANDARD AS ALL HAVE WENT WELL BEYOND THE NEEDS.
stellabystarlight October 5, 2013 at 12:17 pm
” Of course you would keep your job why not? Didn’t the woman from the post office in Timmins keep her job? It works both ways. As for making a complaint…..that is up to the individual, cory did”
OH but the postmistress in pakenham with only one complaint lost her job because 1 person who was the only bilingual person in that town complained about French services.
THERE IS 2 DIFFERENT SETS OF STANDARDS IN THE COUNTRY ONE FOR FRENCH AND THE OTHER OFFICIAL LANGUAGE.
@hftt
my mother died ( at 97 years old) in Verdun general hospital , after taking 2 strokes and paid taxes all her life. She too was, like your father unable to master the French language, and was TOLD by their staff, this is quebec we won’t speak English to you.
Would the compassion you speak of, apply to my mother.
English is OUTLAWED in quebec when it comes to the workplace.
This is what we don`t want to happen here. If not speaking English is good enough for quebec, then perhaps not speaking French is good enough for Ontario, or is it ( apologies my question mark key is not working)
Perhaps if quebec, showed compassion and respect for the Majority`s language in Canada then the door would swing back the other way
However, it is quebec that , under the pretense of their language being threatened, that has caused all of this nonsense. When NEVER, EVER has it been established ANYWHERE that there was EVER a threat to their language.
It is simply not, and never was true. If their was any credence for their argument, then the French language would have diminished long before the advent of bill 101. and this never even came close to occurring
@ Edudyorlik
Your post Oct.5 th. at 12:33
Excellent.
@hftt
Levine’s book, STARTS with the premise that quebec was economically disadvantaged and culturally threatened.
Both of these premises are untrue and NEVER have been proven.
Case closed.
P.S. I defy you or anyone else to disprove the aforementioned claim, and please give me facts , based on both primary and secondary sources. Not Wikapedia or the NET
As for quebec in the 60’s , I was one who lived through that era in Montreal. You, nor the archives you refer can add NOTHING to what I already know and LIVED through.
So please, again, blog from a factual History as opposed to authors, ( Levine ) whose very premise from the get go, is erroneous
Interesting article in the Gazette today.
Freedom fighters might not appreciate it, but interesting none the less.
http://www.montrealgazette.com/life/Brains+crave+bilingualism/8999777/story.html
Hungry for the Truth….
September 21, 2013 at 3:44 pm
highlander September 21, 2013 at 3:17 pm
“I do not blame the French people for our language apartheid but the governments for setting up the conditions for it to thrive.”
You should run for politics. The French people are represented by their FRENCH government. It’s kind of hard of not blaming one without the other.
The French people =The French Government. = The same.
~
bella
September 21, 2013 at 6:11 pm
Hungry for the Truth….
September 21, 2013 at 3:44 pm
The French people =The French Government. = The same.
Your equation would lead one to believe that this new fancy Quebec Values Charter that is being put forth by the Quebec government, has the support of all French people. WOULD YOU MAKE SO BOLD A STATEMENT??? OR DOES THE EQUATION ONLY WORK IN CERTAIN INSTANCES AS NEEDED??
gqo wrote: P.S. I defy you or anyone else to disprove the aforementioned claim, and please give me facts , based on both primary and secondary sources. Not Wikapedia or the NET
Not wikapedia or the net you say? WOW!!! Does that include you tube videos? Interesting that you would say that, we have been saying the same thing for 3 years now but to no avail.
highlander October 5, 2013 at 1:23 pm
“Hungry this is not just isolated to CCH ,BUT SYSTEMIC.”
The SAME incomplete Statistical DATA is used by all Public Institution to evaluate the NEED of FRENCH SERVICES.
DOES any of these PUBLIC INSTITUTION track the ACTUAL USAGE of French Services?
NO, NO, and NO. They all rely on the same DATA to DRAFT HIRING POLICIES.
HOW MANY French people live in the Service region is what they know.
NOT how many ACTUALLY USED FRECH SERVICES.
No one can tell me how many services was ACTUALLY delivered in french last month.
And you have to realize that the LHIN of Champlain Valley marks this Region as 21% FRENCH.
Use ACTUAL USAGE DATA you will abolish the unfairness……
@Furtz……….Great article, thank-you for sharing. Haven’t we been saying that for years?
From the Gazette: McGill’s Genesee pointed out that around the world, bilingualism has become the norm and monolingualism, the exception. “
THAT SAYS IT ALL……..
With two official languages in this country, learn both, it will be advantageous later on. Like Genesee said, being unilingual is the exception.
OMG… Look who’s talking about rights and compassion for the minority language Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha… What a freakin joke. You cannot be serious? Make me freakin laugh why don’t you.
You who promotes laws like bill 101 and blames the English for everything that happened to the French. You who has shown ZERO compassion or sense of guilt for how English people are being treated with such disrespect in Quebec nothing but a province in the very country these people live in). The People aught to be ashamed of themselves for treating Canadian citizens i this manner and YOU should be denouncing such behavior.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=So4E9xkUqfs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GUkNVjM4Gc
and even those who “try” to play by the stupid French rules are then told there are NEW RULES according to some idiotic sense of outlandish personal
“let’s stand up for the FRENCH LANGUAGE” with an almost third reigh’ishness.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5EYxb9K6oM
Hungry for the Truth….
October 5, 2013 at 1:06 pm
edudyorlik October 5, 2013 at 12:28 pm
Lives for lies wrote, “Or would showing that kind of COMPASSION and Understanding deprive you of your RIGHT? speak and be spoken to in ENGLISH?”
I live in a country called Canada sir. The ONLY PEOPLE depriving anyone of their language rights are the French in that god forsaken province of Quebec. NO ONE ELSE. As a matter of fact everyone else is bending over backwards trying to accommodate the “TINY French presence” in this country. A country called Canada which NEED I REMIND YOU — yet again — has ENGLISH as the common language and YOU — the French — are a defeated clan.
Quebec with French as it’s common language IS NOT A COUNTRY yet they act as if they are but that’s another issue. The French language is NOT THE COMMON language of “the country” of Canada.
ANYONE living in this country for 30, 40 or 50 years or however long you claim your father has been here and who has not learned the language of that country are themselves the ones with no respect. No respect for the country they live in.
This whole thing is insane. You know and i know that the concept of French being accommodated within the federal system was “SUPPOSED TO BE” all that was all about and that “accommodation” was due to the English (IN POWER) allowing it to happen.
Now, because the English were kind and accommodating and allowed the French to have “certain rights” we have people like you DEMANDING that it be all across the board and EVERYWHERE
MORE MORE MORE. Never satisfied, always wanting more…
You know, give them an inch and they will take a mile..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvyifj557p8
while again, at the very same time passing laws that outlaw English in Quebec.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBc5gzuHbKI
Funny how you NEVER mention that or take responsibility for how the English language is, belittled, demeaned and made to be second class in Quebec.. No no. Only whining about papa in Ontario.
“So, Quebec will take over. More and more.. What does Quebec want ? MORE, you know.”
http://youtu.be/3kNcFyBofC4?t=18s
PS: Would your father expect to be accommodated in Russia in French too ?
Get it straight Hungry for lies. Your rhetoric is what has been used to pull the wool over the eyes of the majority Anglo Canadians to begin with.
I was once like them, wide eyed and open to this “shared accommodation and let’s get along when i was younger but now that the French have gone too far and are taking advantage of the kindness of the English I HAVE LOST THE WARM and fussy feeling of being ONE and “cooperating” because frankly that is not how the French are going about things.
They are scoundrels of the highest form. They are taking advantage of those who have been kind and nice …
I am now among the group that are trying to wake up the English to show them that it’s time to realize this is no longer a two way street.
So, don’t try to “sell me” and bran wash me with your, “aw c’mon, just a little more French here and here.” It’s NOT GONNA WORK. We’ve had enough. We have now given and given with nothing in return but the your ilk doing things like outlawing the English language and disrespecting the English language and English culture.
And what do you say? YOU WANT MORE?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZrgxHvNNUc
FORGET IT. The shop is closed. You had best strive towards an independent Quebec and then maybe when you and Thibideau come to Canada for bus rides, airplane rides and health care you’ll be happy to speak the English of a superior COUNTRY.
And on that note i wish you, one of the defeated clan, a
“perhaps a lesson in humility might be in order”
type of day eh 🙂
@ gqo. Hate to tell you this, but you aren’t the only one here who “lived through that era in Montreal”. You may claim to have to have a superior analytical mind and education, but that becomes a joke if you say that your experience was the same as all Anglos living in Quebec. When sitting on a high horse spouting BS, don’t look down or slip off the saddle.
@ Admin. Is that an acceptable comment?
Furtz that’s fine. It’s constructive criticism as opposed to simply name calling or clever torts…well maybe not clever torts, but you Furtz probably know what I mean.
I know what you mean. My blocked comment was directed at gqo who claimed that his/her opinion was superior because of his/her education and ability to understand the history of Quebec, as opposed to everyone else posting comments on this thread.
Whatever….
@ eT aL.
FRUTZ MADE THE COMMENT THAT I WAS EDUCATED IN SIMILAR HIGH SCHOOLS THAT HE WAS, IN quebec
I merely pointed out to him, that my education, since it was he who alluded to it, was not only in quebec, but in other provinces as well, and my education was far beyond high school.
As for my experience in living in living in quebec, over 300,000 + anglos left quebec , and in leaving that speaks volumes to the credibility of my statements.
I never claimed that my opinion was superior because of my education, however, my education coupled with my personal experience and the fact that 300,000 + plus anglos left is testament to the fact that my opinions are credible.
seems to me, you are feeling a little insecure about your own take on these issues.
Just an observation.
@ stella,
the u tube posts are called PRIMARY sources and they reflect a reality of the present and , there is an actual visual and sound recording of these events making them a credible primary source.
The ones posted here were also backed up by newspaper accounts and therefore another source was looked at to ensure credibilty
wikapedia, is simply a glorified dictionary. Sites on the web are an extension of the same.
Stellabystarlight posted “From the Gazette: McGill’s Genesee pointed out that around the world, bilingualism has become the norm and monolingualism, the exception. “
THAT SAYS IT ALL……..
With two official languages in this country, learn both, it will be advantageous later on. Like Genesee said, being unilingual is the exception.”
Someone has not checked the Canadian and other Census data to come up with that great distortion!
http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2011/as-sa/98-314-x/98-314-x2011001-eng.cfm
Between 2006 and 2011, the number of persons who reported being able to conduct a conversation in both of Canada’s official languages increased by nearly 350,000 to 5.8 million. The bilingualism rate of the Canadian population edged up from 17.4% in 2006 to 17.5% in 2011.
This growth of English-French bilingualism in Canada was mainly due to the increased number of Quebecers who reported being able to conduct a conversation in English and French.
@ frutz
I guess the B.S. you were referring to was from post
Oct 4th. at 3:26.
These are the facts of quebeec as they occurred and were recorded by many ,many credible authors as I have previously mentioned.
To respond that you had the MISFORTUNE of being educated in a protestant quebec high school, being exposed somewhat to the realty of the history of that entity, is a denial you take upon yourself.
Beyond my high school years, the education I received supported in great depth , what the high school in quebec introduced me to.
The experiences I have lived through , were very similar to the tens of thousands on Quebeckers, that CHOOSE tp leave, rather than having their freedom and inalienable rights denied.
To deny HISTORY AS PROVEN my post of Oct 4th, at 3:26.
only supports my claim, that I defy anyone to contradict what I have pointed out, and please back up your contradictions with hard, credible facts by reputable sources.
making a blatant statement that B.S. was spewed is laughable nonsense and quit frankly makes you appear to not know what you are talking about. Take this as constructive criticism, and not personal.
As for being on a high hose, well I am fortunate enough to be well educated, and was blessed . if that is being on a high horse ,
so be it. I am merely pointed out FACTS of history, if this threatens you, well !!!!!!
Furtz thanks for the article :
But there was a similar article recently that stated puzzles ,chess and other cognitive games had the same influence.
But we do have millions more bilingual individuals that have this increased ability but they are not necessarily bilingual french AND THEIR ABILITY IS NOT RECOGNIZED.
I found this as interesting as there is certainly more ability to learn french in Ontario provincial schools.
” Because barely 12 per cent of French schools had the staff to introduce the English immersion program when it was supposedly mandatory, few boards are expected to introduce the program now that it’s optional.”
Hungry for the Truth….
October 5, 2013 at 1:06 pm
It’s not all about THE THIBIDEAU’s in this Region many FRANCOPHONES call home.
WHAT OF THE ANGLOPHONES THAT CALL QUEBEC HOME!
Hungry for the Truth….
October 5, 2013 at 4:49 pm
“And you have to realize that the LHIN of Champlain Valley marks this Region as 21% FRENCH.
Use ACTUAL USAGE DATA you will abolish the unfairness……”
Now if the region is 21% FRENCH why hire bilingual:
50% + in CCH
100% at local health unit 80% +CCAC
courts 75%+
provincial services 65%+
ect,ect
Actually those actual usage numbers would be skewed as the many Quebecers that use Ontario facilities ,should Ontario patients go on mass to Quebec and demand English services when they do not directly pay taxes to Quebec?
So the question is why have these government entities hire exorbitantly beyond that need to provide those services to that 21%.
21% does not equal 100% as in the health unit ,this all to say that this remains a systemic issue not just local .
This is a discriminatory behavior and encouraged by the government .
Why not hire proportionately would this not be following the principles of democracy?
you see Hungry its not just CCH ,do you plan as well to change the health units 100% bilingual policy ,or CCAC’s 80% bilingual hiring ,what of the 65% provincial bilingual hiring ?
The government has set the policies but no guidelines to implement them .
This is akin to government setting up policies on highway speeding and not having posted speed limits and the police dictate what is that speed limit upon stopping the drivers.
IT REMAINS DISCRIMINATORY HIRING POLICIES AND THEIR APPROACH IS SOCIAL ENGINEERING !
gqo wrote,
“As for my experience in living in living in Quebec, over 300,000 + Anglos left Quebec , and in leaving that speaks volumes to the credibility of my statements.”
AND
“These are the facts of Quebec as they occurred and were recorded by many ,many credible authors as I have previously mentioned.”
Good one gqo…
These “facts” are also backed up by this series by the — national film board of Canada – which also clearly outlines of what you speak gqo.
This NFB series
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAPVYkLYJKI&hd=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XO9lZkPu8zk&hd=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpvha-oe0Hw&hd=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD8UOwJJ4D4&hd=1
Of course, they won’t watch it which is fine but, it contains MANY of those historical FACTS that the hard core French powers that be wish to bury, forget and “try” to pretend that they don’t exist.
These facts along with
— the FACT — that they are operating from a “defeated clan” status and — THAT — CAN NEVER BE CHANGED.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zX-h4s6dOoM&hd=1
AND YES, these wonderful self absorbed so called “Canadians” are indeed threatened by your knowledge of history and use of the “FACTS”, there is no doubt.
Oh and PS… Re: The news related videos… You will notice that the agitator gang rarely try to point to any specifics. Their rebukes are all just fluff because the specifics CANNOT be refuted.
As far as I —
and MANY MANY of my friends, relatives (yes, even the French ones) and associates
— are concerned, the act of Canadian tax payers sending even ONE MORE PENNY of their hard earned tax payers money to that “province” of Quebec
SHOULD BE HALTED immediately
and should only allowed to begin to flow again once Marois is sufficiently shamed and forced to publicly admit that Quebec is ONLY a province inside the COUNTRY OF CANADA AND the constitutional rights of Anglophone Canadians be brought back to first class status as citizens of CANADA.
AS A “DIRECT RESULT” OF the actions of the hard core Quebecers and the Quebec government have taken over the years —
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zj9b1SyHpys&hd=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBc5gzuHbKI&hd=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQHpEAmtbB0&hd=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBz6fce9Sw8&hd=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JaKTF5Eu3g&hd=1
— the consensus among MANY people I know is heavily leaning towards the concept of shutting down — ALL money flow — to the province of Quebec completely
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_MG8z_9P6Y&hd=1
Forcing a vote as to whether Quebec even deserves to be allowed to stay as part of Canada.
The French powers that be tried to break up this country twice already, and now, they are trying to act like they have their own country while using Canadian tax payers money in doing so.
It’s time to turn this table around.
bella
October 5, 2013 at 3:35 pm
bella: Hungry for lies will not respond after he has been proven wrong that EGO is so FRAGILE you know !
hungry had written :
“The French people =The French Government. = The same.”
Lets see being 96% of Ontario is English speaking do we term the Ontario government as the English government ?
English people =English government = same
wow the french zealots would riot (there good at this) if it was termed that way ,but its all right you know to say it the other way !
FOLKS do you not see the double standard in hungry for lies statement?
We do not term Ontario as the “ENGLISH GOVERNMENT” AND IF WE DID SO IT WOULD SURELY BE A DIVISIVE STATEMENT BUT ITS ALRIGHT TO DEEM QUEBEC A ” FRENCH GOVERNMENT” .
Has these entitlements through the years given to Quebec allowed this air of superiority of this culture that is not warranted ?
If all are to be equal want not treat all as equals but then in Canada this is not the case and has created a”CLASS SYSTEM” .
I RECENTLY TALKED TO A WELL ARTICLED EAST INDIAN PROFESSOR OF HISTORY AND LANGUAGE (CANADIAN) AND HE ADVISED ME THAT MULTICULTURALISM HAS BEEN NEARLY ALL WIPED OUT BECAUSE OF BILINGUALISM.
HE FURTHER STATED THAT BILINGUALISM IS CREATING A CLASS SYSTEM SIMILAR TO INDIA’S ,WHEREBY CERTAIN CLASSES HAVE GOVERNMENT OPPORTUNITIES .
It was interesting to hear this from a outside perspective and reaffirmed my beliefs that a good intent to serve a populous has evolved to discriminatory hiring !
@ gqo. Feel free to accept, and indeed take as gospel, any version of Quebec history that you like or suits your purpose. But don’t be so presumptuous as to claim to know the experience of all Anglophones living in Quebec at any time. I very happily lived in Quebec from the late forties to the early seventies. When I left, it wasn’t for political reasons. It was simply to explore and experience other parts of Canada. You might find this hard to believe, but I have lots of family and friends who are still quite content to call Quebec their home.
Furtz I think most reasonable people would suggest that the massive exodus of not only Anglophone, but young Francphones from Quebec was based on Political instability and BS.
ADMIN “reasonable” is the operative word.
My neighbour is an example of a french speaking individual born in Quebec who went to Ontario in the sixties to learn English and make a better life for himself. As he approached retirement he returned to Quebec but found to his dismay the people and the politics to be repulsive. He moved back to Ontario and states proudly that he is simply a Canadian with french ancestry.
True, Admin. Lots of people got nervous and left. And lots of people got nervous and stayed, and lots of those who stayed, like some of my family and friends, are quite content living there.
@ frutz
Please read J.M. L. careless vol 1 and vol 11
He has no axe to grind, just a massively research book (s) that reflects Canada’s history from inception.
Look at the readings of Lionel L’Abbe Groulx, Look at the newspaper accounts of the eras referred to here.
Read the Canadian archives and their analysis of history based on the accounts of the time. Then JUDGE.
This is Historical fact, SUPPORTED by the references these authors make to support their claims and are deemed as factual.
No one has challenged or refuted these people, except you.
And pray tell, what do you base your position on, please, name your sources: if they differ or contradict what I have referred you to, I would be most interested in reading them.
This is NOT MY VERSION of history is it factual.
Because the truth of what has been written does NOT SUIT YOUR VERSION ,of which is unsupported, don’t deny what has been proven and can be supported by the claims and sources I have referred you to.
@ frutz,
I too lived and worked in Montreal, and loved the city and the people.
However, it became increasing clear that the laws enacted were anti-English and that the climate was indeed changing.
As a Canadian, I did NOT relish the prospect of living as a second and even a third class citizen in my own country.
The anti-English legislation, the attitudes towards the English made it crystal clear not only to me, but to some 300,000+ anglos that we were not welcome there, and that Canada was doing nothing to ensure our rights were not only protected, but respected.
That is why , I believe there is nothing Canadian about quebec, and why I believe it is time for them to leave Canada.