Should Christians Observe Halloween? Letter to the Editor by Pastor Tom Newton

Should Christians Observe Halloween?  Letter to the Editor by Pastor Tom Newton

pastor tom AYes, it’s that time of year again, the time when the debate is renewed among professing Christians whether or not to have anything to do with Halloween. Opinions range from seeing Halloween as harmless to seeing it as an opportunity to reach the lost with the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. The latter opinion sounds good and seems to be the preferred choice, but I still believe that complete separation from such a pagan religious day is in order.

 

In the Bible, particularly in the book of Acts, we come across three occult encounters that are important in developing our attitude and actions towards the occult, and, therefore, toward Halloween. First, in Acts 13:6, the Apostle Paul runs into a sorcerer by the name of Barjesus. This sorcerer opposed the preaching of the Gospel. The Apostle Paul’s evaluation of him is found in Acts 13:10, “And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?”

 

Then in Acts 16, a damsel “possessed with a spirit of divination” (v. 16) began to “help” the Apostle Paul and his missionary party proclaim the good news of God. Such help was not appreciated nor needed: God’s servants do not need the help of the Devil and his kind. By the power of God, the damsel was delivered from the spirit of divination (fortune-telling). This act of deliverance got the apostles into a lot of trouble with those who made a profit from her fortune-telling.

 

Finally, Acts 19 tells how the inhabitants of Ephesus have received the gospel at the hands of the Apostle Paul. Many are converted and now look what they are doing: they are having a bonfire! Why? “Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver.  So mightily grew the word of God and prevailed” (Acts 19:19-20). “Curious arts”?  They took their books on magic, witchcraft, occult practices, tarot cards, etc. and burned them. I wonder: if something like this occurred today in our city, would not Harry Potter, the Twilight books, and many others be burned to ashes?

 

The question remains: have occult practices changed much since Bible times? Talk to a witch, a person who is into Wicca, a Satanist, a pagan, and see what they think about one of their most dark holy days: Halloween! They laugh at our gullibility and stupidity when it comes to participating in this dark holy day. What can we learn from the historical examples given from the book of Acts? God’s messengers did not have anything to do with the occult, but actually opposed such works of darkness by the Word of God, by the shed blood of Christ, and in the power of the Holy Spirit. Anything less than that for those of us who are Christians today is compromise, and we are giving place to the Devil to have a foothold in our lives. And this ought not to be for a person who names the name of Christ.

 

Pastor Tom Newton

Calvary Baptist Church

(Comments and opinions of Editorials, Letters to the Editor, and comments from readers are purely their own and don’t necessarily reflect those of the owners of this site, their staff, or sponsors.)

Start Communications

 

118 Responses to "Should Christians Observe Halloween? Letter to the Editor by Pastor Tom Newton"

  1. Pastor Tom Newton   November 3, 2013 at 7:07 AM

    Roger writes “One is they were never translated from the original languages by qualified scholars who had actually studied the languages, customs and cultures of the times when these documents were first produced, and two, the fact that some of these accounts were stories never meant to be used in the way they are”. Could not resist- admin.

    I guess Roger you have never read any thing about the credentials of the scholars who translated the Hebrew, Arabic, and Greek in to what we have as the Authorized version. Here is a link to information about the education, language skills, and godliness behind these translators. http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/The%20King%20James%20Bible/Translators/translators.htm

    Your second point can not be supported by any source that is academically acceptable. Two books that many Bible students and scholars use:- “A General Intro. to the Bible” – Geisler/Nix; “General Biblical Intro. – H.S. Miller. These are two reliable sources that will clearly disprove you point 2.

    And finally your creation account in the matter of the trying to disprove a 24 hour day is totally unsupported by the Hebrew text. Links to consider – http://creation.com/ and http://www.answersingenesis.org/

    Finally Roger if you are going to be a textual critic back up your information with provable facts with references. There are some good books out there on Biblical criticism. Any book written by Dr. John Dean Burgeon is a jewel. Very technical and informative. Burgeon was a Greek scholar in his day. The other two books I mentioned above both have chapters on textual criticism.

    And as to your evaluation of my Christianity, considering the source, well, I ‘ll leave that alone for the sake of Christian love and tolerance (did you read that Patrick?).

  2. Pastor Tom Newton   November 3, 2013 at 8:37 AM

    It is so normal for those (i.e. Rogers last post, and others) that have nothing to say academically, scholarly, and with Biblical arguments and debate to resort to character assassination.

    My Master declares to me to – Mat 5:44 “But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you”. Which by His grace I do, and will continue to do. Roger- what does your master commands you to do? Do you know that the family members of the Lord Jesus Christ thought that he was mad – mentally insane, until He rose from the dead (Mark 3:21). I guess His family members know better now i.e the book of James is written by the half brother of the Lord Jesus.

  3. Roger Roy   November 3, 2013 at 9:19 AM

    Most of my comments come directly from university courses I took from the head of a Baptist theology college, in particular on the history of the English bible. You have a knack of avoiding commenting on the most important points in a person’s comments. Why not address the death penalty for homosexuality, the behavior of churches like Westboro Baptist, or what constitutes a “day” in infinity, or the life of an infinite eternal Being? What constitutes bigotry, racism, hatred, harassment, in the eyes of a Baptist? Where is Christ’s love, the core and MOST important part of His teachings and the core of the Christian faith? And where did He give ANYONE the authority to try and run, interfere in, or attack other peoples lives? He did quite the opposite. Why is religion so often a magnet for the mentally ill? Forget about being “SAVED”, until you can deal with those problems.

  4. Patrick   November 3, 2013 at 11:15 AM

    Tom wrote “And as to your evaluation of my Christianity, considering the source, well, I ‘ll leave that alone for the sake of Christian love and tolerance (did you read that Patrick?).” Yes i did and you like to talk out of both sides of your mouth i see. You cannot preach intolerance and hate one minute then say you are a Christian and we should love each other the next. You can keep avoiding what i said earlier by quoting bible verses instead of actually giving real answers. Just keep sidestepping the real issues that were brought up, you seem really good at it.

  5. David Oldham   November 3, 2013 at 1:11 PM

    If Pastor Tom Newton held a degree in biblical archeology or a degree in history would his credibility perhaps not be so much in question ? The truth is not always the truth. The truth is that which we believe to be true. Our minds need to remain open to recognizing that the truth can change when information dictates.

    At one time mankind thought that the earth was flat and that was the accepted truth and then there was a change.

  6. Furtz   November 3, 2013 at 2:26 PM

    @ David. Even a god can change it’s mind when presented with new evidence. The Mormons used to believe that dark-skinned people of African descent were subhuman and without souls. Sometime in the seventies, their god changed his mind, and now these people are considered OK, if not cool. It’s amazing how some gods adapt with the times, and others seem to cling to their hateful BS no mater what.

  7. Pastor Tom Newton   November 3, 2013 at 2:29 PM

    David – with that type of mindset, don’t worry about my credibility.
    Roger – we are to speak the truth in love (Eph. 4;15), not love with a bit of truth.

  8. David Oldham   November 4, 2013 at 6:34 AM

    I throw something out there about keeping an open mind and provide sound reasoning for doing so and Pastor Tom Newton calls the openness “that type of mindset”. I understand more now the comments that others with far more experience with Pastor Tom Newton have made. The conclusion is quite evident. The Pastor would prefer that the truth of our world had remained “flat”. That is to say his head is buried in the narrow mindedness of his version of the word of god. He may lack credibility but he does have conviction !

  9. Pastor Tom Newton   November 4, 2013 at 8:17 AM

    David calls this open mindedness -“The truth is not always the truth. The truth is that which we believe to be true. Our minds need to remain open to recognizing that the truth can change when information dictates”.
    In my studies this “type of mindset” is characteristic of New Age, Eastern mystic religion, and even how a person would receive their “spirit guide” – channeling[occult]. First you have relativism – no absolutes, pragmatism, and then New age spiritualism. If this is what you call open mindedness, while I rather believe the earth is really flat.
    Your desire for open mindedness reminds me of the lie of Satan to our first parents in the garden -“Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil”. Compared to – Col 2:3 In whom[the Risen Lord Jesus]are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge”. I will take Christ and His narrow mindedness any day!

  10. David Oldham   November 4, 2013 at 9:09 AM

    So, Pastor Tom Newton, you believe that false conclusions ( like the earth being flat ) based on the best available information that is purported to be the accepted “truth” should not be subject to change when additional information comes available that would challenge an already accepted belief. What a strange position to adopt unless you perhaps are a hard fast proponent of tunnel vision. You are an embarrassment to the god given gift of rationalization, but he will forgive you Pastor Tom Newton for he is a loving god. You missed the point but your lack of range dictates want you are able to consider. Religion can be both a blessing and a curse, for some. Muslim extremists might also be an example of that statement. God bless.

  11. Furtz   November 4, 2013 at 9:52 AM

    Just as ridiculous as the flat-earth belief is the notion that the universe and everything in it was created in six twenty-four hour days about five thousand years ago. How anyone can claim that with a straight face is beyond me. It puts into perspective all the other “truths” they preach about.

  12. Roger   November 5, 2013 at 10:51 AM

    Furtz, you bring up some interesting points. I don’t think that God actually changes. as a “supernatural”, “infinite” or “eternal” being or entity. It’s peoples perceptions, understanding, and knowledge that change, as society becomes more civilized and educated. Unfortunately some Christians and others (I’m told that Mormons are not Christians), are still stuck in the dark or middle ages or the 19th century. There are a lot of new discoveries in the 20th century that SHOULD have changed people’s understanding, and are NOT included in any version or translation of the bible that I am aware of. The oldest texts known today for the Old Testament were only discovered at various times in the 20th century, and one has to assume that being the oldest known, they would have to be the most accurate. There are far too many to even touch on here, and despite my education in both the sciences and theology, I do not feel qualified to argue with the scholars who are are involved with them directly. Some people don’t even realize that the original bible is not a book, but a collection of thousands of stone tablets, scrolls, inscriptions and carvings, some of them written in languages that don’t even exist anymore. One discovery worth mentioning is the oldest known record of the Book of Genesis, written in Aramaic I believe, that reportedly does not conflict with the concept of evolution, and does not use the word “day” in creation accounts. One of the problems with religion I believe is education, especially that of the clergy. We invest as much as 25 years or more in training doctors to minister to the human body, and the human mind, and similar amounts of education to train scientists, lawyers and other professionals. Most of those groups also have standards for their professions set down by groups like Colleges of Physicians, Law Societies, etc. When it comes to religion and ministering to the human soul, there are no universal standards, even for some individual denominations, and you can become a “preacher” or “pastor” in some cases, with as little as grade school, and the ability to read and “preach” from a book. That does not qualify a person to interpret the Bible.This is probably why the ministry has more imposters, mail order credentials and frauds than any other profession. We can’t blame that on God. It comes from man’s own stupidity and ignorance in terms of what he’s prepared to accept. One of the most important objectives of an education is to teach us HOW to learn. Unfortunately for some of us, learning ends on graduation day. There are also some things that an education cannot do. Sometimes if you’re a flake or fruit-cake when you enter the educational system, you’ll still be a flake or fruit-cake when they spit you out the other end. Why do we have, or even allow, the mentally ill in the clergy? Westboro Baptist Church is only one of many examples
    That’s not God’s fault, and it’s not His message that’s being spread.

  13. Furtz   November 5, 2013 at 1:23 PM

    The thing is, Roger, gods, all gods, exist only in the imaginations of those who feel the need to worship something. A bigoted and nasty person will choose (make up) a bigoted and nasty god. A loving and accepting person will choose (make up) a loving and accepting god. The number and types of gods are only limited by the number and types of people who make them up. I, for example, believe that my version of The Flying Spaghetti Monster is the coolest god ever.

  14. Roger   November 5, 2013 at 6:45 PM

    In all seriousness, psychologists will tell us that healthy human beings all believe in something “greater than oneself”. It’s a basic part of human nature, and mental health, it’s the way the human brain is wired. Most people call that something God, others may refer to it as something else, like life force or creative energy, you name it. Even scientists. There are all kinds of ways to describe God, and NO-ONE has any right to impose their personal view on anyone else. Something that religious fanatics don’t realize is that their own faith teaches them that God gave us free-will, the power to choose. Modern sciences, like quantum physics, have also added a new dimension to the concept. That’s probably why I don’t believe there’s such a thing as “atheism”. I also believe that if I were to choose to go to hell, whatever that is, that’s my business, and mine alone. As a Christian, I have my hands full living my own life, if I’m on the right path, and I sure as hell don’t have time to tell someone else how to live theirs.

  15. Pastor Tom Newton   November 6, 2013 at 7:40 AM

    Roger writes “As a Christian, I have my hands full living my own life, if I’m on the right path, and I sure as hell don’t have time to tell someone else how to live theirs”.

    Roger writes “As a Christian” – I would of never guessed that to be the case. One of those liberal minded, deity denying, Scripture denying, hell denying, God loves everyone including the devil type of Christian? The Lord Jesus says “you shall know them by their fruits”. Boy was He right!

    “if I am on the right path…” “IF” – says a lot about your Christianity. Roger have you never read -Tit 3:5 “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost”. It is trusting in Christ finished work alone that saves, not doing the best I can come up with.

    Your conversation with the spaghetti god lover reminded me of what the Lord Jesus said “Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch”(Matt. 15:14).

  16. Furtz   November 6, 2013 at 9:17 AM

    @ Roger. I’m not sure about people being wired to believe in some sort of god. It might have more to do people making something up to try to explain what they don’t understand. As far as the fire and brimstone fanatics go, it seems to stem from a need to control others (power), or the need for attention (status). And yes, there are lots of happy and content atheists out there. I was raised in the Christian faith, but by the age of about ten, I realized that it was a crock and totally rejected it. Best decision I’ve ever made. I honestly don’t care what anybody wants to believe. What I do object to is people using their religion as an excuse to direct hate and vitriol at others, or using threats like eternal damnation to scare children and weak-minded adults into believing their BS.

  17. jules   November 6, 2013 at 2:21 PM

    We have always had Halloween and people use it as a fun thing and it started in Ireland. What people do not know is that it is part of the occult. It isn’t a Christian thing to do at all and if people ever delved into the occult it can be mighty scarry and I know because of the ouiji board and terrot cards that I used to play with friends as a teenager. One girl lost a friend of hers (died) and she was very worried about her father because of his health and it turned out to be one of her friends that died. I love the fall weather and Halloween has always been a tradition for all of us but it is pagan like the occult – Masonry – and it isn’t something to fool around with at all. None of this is a game to be taken lightly at all.

  18. David Oldham   November 6, 2013 at 5:13 PM

    To All… Pastor Tom Newton made reference to the blind and it reminded me of something I heard a long time ago (though not in a far away place Furtz ). I cannot recall who said it, perhaps someone knows ?

    There is no one as blind as the one who refuses to see.

  19. David Oldham   November 6, 2013 at 5:55 PM

    I am Irish Jules . The Celts festival was more of respect of the dead , pagan yes but branded devil worshipers by the Catholic church in their approach to converting us to Christianity. All Hallows Eve was retained by the Catholics and complimented with All Saints Day to lure us into the fold. So it would I believe it more correct to say that Halloween had it roots in both the Celtic tradition and the Catholic church of some 1500 years ago.

    It is a harmless fun time for all and I hope it never changes. Would you not miss the Feast of St. Patrick ? If your ancestors had been slaves like the Irish at the hands of the British you would understand better why we love a good time.

  20. Roger   November 6, 2013 at 6:03 PM

    Mr Newton, rather than dealing with ANY of the points I (and others) have tried to raise, accuses me of having “nothing to say“ of value, …academically, scholarly….“ All I can say is there`s nothing scholarly about quoting memorized passages from a book and out of context, or quoting out-of-date sources. I`m not here to teach a course. Accusing me of being `… deity denying, scripture denying…“ indicates to me that he hasn`t understood a thing I`ve said, or maybe hasn`t read them in their entirety. I am more than happy with my Christianity, my relationship with God, my knowledge of scriptures and their history current right up to the 21st. century. I`m also more than comfortable with the fact that there is NO need for conflict between Christianity and science. He also ignores the fact that some of my points come directly from Baptist PhDs in divinity and biblical history, something I shared with him a long long time ago. I would suggest to him that a good refresher course maybe at a good Baptist University, might be in order. Good Baptist Christians do not do some of the things he does.

  21. larry knight   November 6, 2013 at 6:27 PM

    Where to begin.
    1. Evangelicals like Tom believe the Bible is the literal, inerrant, unchanging word of God. The smallest mistake in the Bible disproves their beliefs which is why they fight so ferociously to defend it.
    2. Evangelicals will never accept evolution and a 13.7 billion year old universe because evolution disproves Jesus’ divinity. How could Jesus believe Adam and Eve’s son Abel was a real historical figure (Luke 11:51) if he was god?
    3. As an atheist, I have no need of the evangelicals’ “god of the gaps.” Don’t understand creation? Create a god and a mythological creation story to explain it. Don’t understand how humans got here? Create a Garden of Eden mythology with Adam and Eve. Soon, there will be no gaps in our understanding of the universe and no need for their mythological god.

    Roger, I can disprove any of your Christian beliefs. Give me one.

  22. Furtz   November 6, 2013 at 6:27 PM

    @ David. You repeat “There is no one as blind as the one who refuses to see”. See what? A talking snake? An eternal lake of fire? A hateful god who will throw you into that fiery lake? What exactly are we refusing to see?

  23. David Oldham   November 6, 2013 at 8:22 PM

    FURTZ it was just a statement concerning narrow mindedness and not directed at anyone in particular. Truth be known we have likely all been guilty of it at some point in time.

  24. jules   November 6, 2013 at 8:49 PM

    David Oldham I am part Irish myself. I would believe that the Catholic church has some angle up their sleeves on this as well. I was born and raised Catholic but I can tell you that I found out things about the church that would make my mother turn over in her grave if she knew it. We were all lied to in that church. I listen to Protestant sermons instead because I hate the hypocracy in that church. I love the fall and like Halloween for the fun of it but it is the occult and I heard that from Protestants and I go by what they preach.
    I have a bit of the flu and early to bed I go soon.

  25. Roger   November 6, 2013 at 8:56 PM

    I guess in my efforts to keep things short, I end up not expressing myself very well. I’m not interested in debating the existence of God or religion per se. What I am concerned with is the trash that unqualified people try to sell as Christianity, or for that matter Islam. An adequately educated person will tell you, you cannot interpret a story from Genesis literally. You have to understand things like literary styles used in the period, the intricacies of the original language and cultures of the time, especially if they’ve gone extinct, the methods of recording history, etc. etc. The Old Testament was never meant to be used the way it’s being used to-day. Even in Christ’s time He chastised the Jews for the way they used it and other religious records. Add to that the fact that none of the translations of what people call the bible are accurate, for the simple reason some of the translators were not language scholars appropriate for the time period, or, some of the original material was not available to them. It varies from on version or translation to the other. That’s how you end up with idiots, fanatics, radical fundamentalists trying to preach or promote the death penalty for sins like homosexuality, which is totally contrary to the faith they claim to believe in, or criminals in prison quoting from the bible to justify their crimes.Look at two gentlemen from my youth. A farmer who claimed the only people you would find in heaven were white, french speaking, Roman Catholic, liberals which is what nuns taught him in school from the bible, so he said. ? He never got to high school. A Baptist “pastor” who claimed that it was only white English speaking, protestant, conservatives that you would find there. His kind of preaching got 2 teens killed behind a dance hall one night, and his congregation ended up physically escorting him out of town. Sadly, a very true story, all in the name of a man who preached “Love”. We have too many people turning religion into profane TRASH because they don’t know any better, or they are simply evil. When I first entered university to study science (biology and geology) I had a real struggle with evolution and my religion. I had a hell of a time in those years finding someone to help me resolve those issues. Of all people it turned out to be a Baptist Dr. of Divinity who showed me why there was no conflict between the bible and science, in particular evolution. Yet we have preachers out there that will tell you the exact opposite. Some sects, cults, denominations only require grade school and the ability to preach from a book to become a minister. Almost anyone can become a minister, on their own in some cases. It shouldn’t, and it doesn’t have to be that way.

  26. Pastor Tom Newton   November 6, 2013 at 9:48 PM

    Roger – the Baptist Dr. of Divinity lied to you!

  27. Furtz   November 7, 2013 at 3:17 AM

    @ Roger. That’s why I believe that rejecting religion at ten years of age was the best decision I ever made. Trying to make sense of religious teachings in the real world seems pretty futile to me. The only thing the bible taught me was that people were inventing gods and making up stories at the time it was written. Nothing more.

  28. Roger   November 7, 2013 at 6:58 AM

    You are the liar Tom, and all because you won’t inform yourself. Answer the questions posed to you, if you even can, if you are really a “pastor”. I don’t believe you are, or you could not possibly support the death penalty for a “sin”, and ignore Christ’s real message. That’s just one small example. Go back to school and catch up on the last century and a half. Or maybe it’s impossible for you to understand.

  29. David Oldham   November 7, 2013 at 7:00 AM

    Humans do not all speak the same language. Some languages are visual in nature, others are not. Suffice to say that translations are at best an approximation of what was meant but in many cases translation is just not possible because of the confines of different languages. For this reason the bible(s) (there are several versions) are not literal or intended to be but rather linguists best attempts at translation. Therefore it should be obvious to a reasonably minded person that differences amongst groups would obviously exist because of interpretations.

    In the final analysis the only truly important concern for almost all religion (not just Christianity) is that they share the same god even the atheists and agnostics. Would anyone suggest that a belief in something greater than yourself is not good?

    I might add that if we do share a common destination than really is it that significant and worth fighting over how we ultimately get there ? I would suggest not. Peace be with all of you.

  30. Pastor Tom Newton   November 7, 2013 at 8:48 AM

    Roger – I have never advocated the death penalty for sins mentioned in the Old Testament as capital crimes against the nation of Israel – such as adultery, sodomy, bestiality, and witches, etc. In the New Testament such sins are still sins that bring the wrath of God presently, and eternal damnation to come. Thus the warning to turn or burn. Judgment Day is coming.

    God’s moral standard has not changed nor will it ever, but presently how He deals with such sinners has – grace and time to repent here and now in light of God’s love displayed by the death of His Son on the cross. Any of these sins can be with God’s grace and mercy be forsaken, and forgiven. If such repentance is real and saving than new life in Christ will always be manifested. Which equates to obeying all of God’s word in love. Being Christ like, being holy, godly, are all results of obeying God’s word in the power of the Holy Spirit. Like the women caught in adultery in John 8:11 “She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more”. “Go, and sin no more” – is expected, and possible to those born of God’s Spirit.

    The goal of saving grace is to save us from our sins (rebellion, sinful life styles, the worship of self,etc) and not in our sins. 2Co 5:17 “Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new”. That is the type of Christianity the Lord Jesus taught, and in which I follow, and that by His grace.

  31. Furtz   November 7, 2013 at 10:01 AM

    @ David. Some people have the need or desire to believe in a god (higher power). Others don’t. Conflict and BS always gets rolling when one group or individual has the audacity to claim to have all the answers. The trick is to be content with what you believe, or not, and to not be constantly spouting so called “truths”. It seems that the most evangelical (vocal) proponents of their “faith” are the ones who choose the nastiest gods. We have a prime example of that in Mr. Newton who regularly proclaims that all those who don’t embrace and adhere to his particular beliefs will spend eternity burning in hell.

  32. jules   November 7, 2013 at 4:19 PM

    Furtz you have an awful lot to learn. God has always existed and always will. Even our ancient people like our Native Indians always knew that there was a higher power beyond them. If you listen to Bill Cooper ( a very interesting man) he tells all about how ancient man always consulted the religious leader in the tribe before doing anything. Today the Pope is the head of all religions and not everyone is really aware of that or wants to be but it is the truth. Every ruler no matter what their faith is whether Christianity, Islam, Hindu, etc. etc. etc. consults the Pope. The queen of England is below the Pope and she too consults the Pope and she is a Dame of Malta and is in the occult as well as many world leaders. The occult is pagan and there are those who follow that. The Jesuit Pope (aka the Black Pope) is the head of all of the secret societies. (Now this is something that I have learned over the past 3 or 4 years and I am against the Catholic faith because they preached other things and are hypocrites). Pastor Newton would know all about this matter. There are other things as well that have turned me away from the Catholic church. The highest positions in the Vatican are Masons. I am against “modernism” and I am against Vatican II and all it stands for. I am for the old Latin mass and I am very conservative.

  33. Furtz   November 7, 2013 at 5:02 PM

    @ Jules. I’m glad to know that you know “the truth”. I hope you enjoy it. Just be aware that your “truth” is your own, and is not what billions of other people believe. You say I have a lot of learning to do. I agree. We all do, including yourself. As I said, enjoy your truth, but don’t tell me what I should believe.
    Thanks

  34. jules   November 7, 2013 at 5:18 PM

    Furtz it is true that we all have things to learn and believe me I am always learning something new. You don’t have to believe and it is your decision whether you do or not. Sometimes it takes people a long time before they come around and believe me Furtz I too didn’t give a rat’s behind many years ago and I am telling you the truth. I changed a great deal in my life and gone through many things. God has always existed and is not dead. God is the alpha and the omega and will never die. People die, animals die, plants die but God always goes on whether with or without us. This is Satan’s world and when the time of Satan’s reign comes up then God will take over and clean up the earth or make a new one. It is only you who can change and nobody can change you except yourself. I changed myself and ask me how I don’t know. I was as stubborn as yourself. LOL LOL. That is the truth that I am telling you.

  35. Furtz   November 7, 2013 at 6:29 PM

    You are still preaching, Jules. Give it up. Believe whatever the hell you want to believe and enjoy it. You have a lot of nerve telling me that it takes time to “come around” to your “truth”. I would never suggest that you are a self-inflated religious nut-bar, but others might.

  36. David Oldham   November 7, 2013 at 6:38 PM

    Hey FURTZ hell may end up a little overcrowded, I’ll try and save you a good spot. Bring some marshmallows.

  37. Furtz   November 7, 2013 at 7:11 PM

    Sounds good to me David. May the stay there be as pleasant as the way there!
    I’ll bring a good supply of pasta and holy meatball sauce.
    Looking forward to it.

  38. Patrick   November 7, 2013 at 8:01 PM

    It’s almost comical to hear people preach about the only truth is believing in god. Which god? There are thousands of deity’s that different believers worship. What makes anyone think that just because they were born into a family of a certain religion that they were fortunate enough to be following the “one and true god”? What proof do they have that god….any god exists? The answer is there isn’t any. Using quotes from their respective “holy books” isn’t proof either. I hear all the time “prove he doesn’t exist”. Well that’s like me saying “prove the tooth fairy or leprechauns don’t exist”. Sounds ridiculous right? Stories from the old testament of the bible can’t be taken literally, right? Those stories are clearly works of fiction and/or overly exaggerated events. So why would anyone continue to cherry pick what parts are true or not? If you say “i don’t believe in the bible anymore but i still believe in god” then you must say to yourself “why do i still believe in a god that came from the bible?” and “would i still believe that one even exists if not for the bible?” Remember this, we are all born atheists until someone indoctrinates us into whatever religion they happen to follow.

  39. David Oldham   November 7, 2013 at 10:25 PM

    @PATRICK………we, as a the only form of life on this planet with the ability to rationalize each make a decision(s) as to what we believe. It is a matter of personal choice, ultimately.
    By virtue of the fact that language translation is for the most part interpretative no body of work translated from another language can be taken quite literally. The path you appear to be on presently seems a bit narrow, in time it may lead you to an open space but until then I will leave you with this…I cannot pass judgement on the Tooth Fairies actual existance but as to leprechauns…well Patrick I’m Irish what would you expect me say ? The truth, right ?

  40. Roger   November 7, 2013 at 10:30 PM

    Jules, I thought I was going to leave this site, but I have to ask you one question. Where on earth are you getting your information from?

  41. Roger   November 8, 2013 at 7:41 AM

    Has anyone ever tried translating Shakespeare into another language and still keep the same style and the same story? It can’t be done. That doesn’t mean Shakespeare, or his style of English, never existed.

  42. David Oldham   November 8, 2013 at 8:17 AM

    ROGER….please do not permit people being people to jade you to the point that you give up on this site. Frustrating as it may be from time to time the interaction is often informative and has moments of entertainment value.

    Keep contributing, if not for yourself, for others.

  43. larry knight   November 8, 2013 at 8:44 AM

    Furtz, where do you get your information about hell and god’s archenemy Satan since neither one existed in the Old Testament?

  44. Furtz   November 8, 2013 at 9:33 AM

    @ Larry. I get all my info and wisdom from Mr. Newton. 🙂

  45. Roger   November 8, 2013 at 9:59 AM

    Jules, It just occurred to me who Bill Cooper is. Although he’s interesting at times, I hope you realize he’s basically a conspiracy theorist, like the ones who claim man never landed on the moon. That should tell you something about how reliable his information is. Read up on his background and you’ll see what I mean.

  46. Patrick   November 8, 2013 at 10:11 AM

    @David. I find it funny that you tell i’m on a narrow path. I’m not the one who surrenders my fate to an imaginary person. I know that life is what you make of it and it’s not a predetermined fate. Believing that you don’t have a say in your life IS being narrow minded. Trying to blend science with imaginary supernatural beings IS narrow minded. I was raised Catholic so i know all about living in ignorance and fear of God. As i grew and matured in my thinking i could no longer live my life believing in a lie.

  47. larry knight   November 8, 2013 at 10:21 AM

    Furtz, please accept my deepest sympathy. May you and tom enjoy your alternate reality where:
    the earth is flat (Psalm 67:7, 98:3); the sun extends a day by standing still (Joshua 10:13), the moon controls the seasons (Psalm 104:19) but not the tides; stars are mistaken for meteors that can stand still over a Bethlehem manger; and giants (genesis 6:4) wizards (Leviticus 20:6), unicorns and dragons are ubiquitous.

  48. Furtz   November 8, 2013 at 11:56 AM

    @ Larry. I let Mr. Newton do all the bible reading and interpreting, and he passes on The Truth to me. It saves me a lot of effort and frees up my time to engage in drunken debauchery.

  49. Roger   November 9, 2013 at 10:16 AM

    Criticizing religion is popular with just about everyone, including myself, and I include atheism as a religion for lack of a better term. The Roman Catholic religion, which I was born into, has been around for 2000 years and as a human institution has it’s share of dark periods in it’s history, “sins” if you will, and evil. One of the biggest trials in my life has been coming to grips with the dark side of Roman Catholicism, and religion in general. I discovered that most if not all religions, and any other kind of human institution has an equivalent dark side. I mention the dark side but I also recognize that there’s another side of the church, churches or religion in general, that has been a tremendous force for good in human development. The only difference between any of them is the time period. Every human being has a dark or evil side to them, which manifests itself in human institutions. This is a well accepted fact in mental sciences. Keeping that dark side under control, taming it if you will, is what makes and keeps a society civilized. If we abandon everything without trying to change what we dislike, or covering it up, what do we have left?
    Some have criticized Vatican II for a variety of reasons, but it was a step that helped to bring the Catholic Church out of the dark ages into the 20th. century. Some left the church for no other reason than the fact they didn’t like loosing the Latin mass, something that most of them didn’t understand anyway, yet they fail to ask themselves what’s the value in a prayer if you don’t fully understand what you’re saying? Also one example of dark age thinking was the belief by some church officials that it was a sin for a married woman to have an orgasm during intercourse with her husband, of all people! This was a teaching that originated, not from the bible, or anything that Christ said, but from the teachings of St. Augustine, a converted sex addict from the 4th. century. Why anyone would object to getting rid of those idiotic teachings is beyond me? As far as sins of the church are concerned they still don’t constitute reason for abandoning it. Yes, we finally recognized there were pedophiles in the church. However, any child welfare agency will tell you that the incidence of pedophilia is much higher in the secular population, even among married, heterosexual individuals. We have lawyers, judges, cops etc. that have been convicted of child abuse. Does that mean that we abandon our entire legal , justice system? Doctors and dentists have been convicted of such crimes. Do we abandon our entire medical system as a result? As I said, anywhere you find man involved you can find evil. Anywhere. Do we abandon civilization because of the barbarians in the world? Just something to think about for those that can think.
    If you don’t like something in your religion, work to change it. By remaining silent or walking away makes you part of the crime. Promote good, not evil. If your church, or clergy is dirty, clean house, don’t burn it down.

  50. Roger   November 9, 2013 at 10:22 AM

    PS If your cleric can’t or won’t answer your questions, find one that will.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published.