CFN – Is it time to boycott all things Quebec? A boycott is a severe thing; but with Bill 14 looming and the strange occurrences since the last election there that never seem to be resolved could it be best if people give La Belle Province a wide berth for awhile?
Don’t get me wrong; as a former Montrealer there are many things I still love about the once great city.
But I could go a summer without Schwartz’s and steamies if it makes a statement.
Frankly I visit “back home” less and less. It’s not just the crazed roads and constant construction. It’s not just the all too more frequent customer service issues if I dare speak “Anglais”.
It’s this darn Bill 14. It’s the fact that things became so bad in Quebec that the people of Quebec decided to grant Ms Marois a government.
In Canada we still have free choice; and frankly my choice is leaning towards making my little statement. My one little token of boycotting Quebec until after Labour Day. I think I can do it.
Yes, I’ll still visit my family; but I won’t be dining or spending any money there. Do I expect my little boycott to change anything? Not really; but imagine if millions of people did?
Politicians rely on people never doing anything no matter how badly they behave. They’re used to manipulating small groups of people to grab power. When I wrote during the student tuition protests that it simply was PQ agitation I think the election results showed how right myself and many others of the same belief were.
Quebec made its choice. In some ways I think it was a good one because people can focus on the brutally ugly culture of linguistic facism that exists. Francophones in Quebec will have to realize that the only people that can save French in Quebec are Francophones. Anglophones, and Allophones are not to blame and not the issue. It’s time to stop punishing the English language and culture hoping that Quebec will become some Francophone Mecca.
Until Quebec changes its ways the results will essentially be the same.
Now the big question is why the Federal government remains so silent on what’s happening to Canadians living in Quebec that don’t subscribe to the provincially mandated madness, and why they are abdicating those citizens rights…
Jamie Gilcig – Editor – CFN
(Comments and opinions of Editorials, Letters to the Editor, and comments from readers are purely their own and don’t necessarily reflect those of the owners of this site, their staff, or sponsors.)
@ edudyorlik
The fact is that english on signs is allowed everywhere in Québec as long as french is prodominant. as english dominates most sings in the ROC.
That is what we know!
I would like you to prove your allegation as to the government of Québec encouraging several hundred of dozens of idiots to punch, yell and throw eggs and sandwiches, at anglos.
I know that there is an extremist group consisting of a couple dozens, no more, extremists, led by Patrick Bourgeois, who have done this to oppose the reenactment of the battle of the Plains of Abraham but, it was a one time occurence and it was comdemned by the Government of the time, by the opposition, by the francophone media and, by all Québécois.
As to Québécois being encouraged to squeal on anglos for using their language or displaying it on signs is, again, that’s an half-truth.
The fact is that anglos can and do use their language wherever and whenever they wish to except that we expect english bussinesses to serve their francophone costomers, in french.
And, again they can advertize their bussinesses in english on their signs as long as they advertize it in french also.
Most bussinesses agree with that law as it makes good bussiness sense in this very french speaking province.
The OQLF does not investigate illigal or illegal bussiness practices signs unless there are complaints from the public. You may call that encouraging complaints but, it’s not because there are thousands of complaint, every year, and the Office only follows up on a very, very few of them… I believe that you could count them on the the fingers of one hand. You can check that out it’s all documented.
Would you rather have them patroling the streets to find illegal signs… Let me tell you, they would be a lat more busy.
@Peter
How do you expext me or anybody to prove you anything about canadian history when you deny any proof that is on the internet or on wikipedia because you think you know more than the online encyclopidia
Simply put. You are right Pierre. Oh and Richard is right too. And while I am at it. Stella is the Mecca of wisdom in all the universe on this issue as well.
There, problem solved. Debate ended.
There is really no use (and I have no patience and time) to devote to trying to
“deal with”
(I can’t being myself to call it “debating with” the likes of you folks who obviously live in a world that has a different colored sky in it than the reality world I live in.
All I can say is this. I am half French myself and I have no problem with the French people or the French language. What I DO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH is unfairness, inequity and being taken advantage of. Especially the “being taken advantage of part (must be the French blood 🙂 )
Thus, when laws are written and enforced which force one group / culture (the English) in the “province” of Quebec —
(who btw are still living in their OWN DAMN COUNTRY as Quebec is nothing but a glorified “province” YES, just a freakin province that is ACTING LIKE a country unless of course, it is taking the hard earned Canadian tax payers money in which case Quebec suddenly has no problem considering itself “a province” for that sole purpose only)
— that diminishes the English language which btw, — IS — “THE COMMON LANGUAGE” of all of Canada, it leave a bad taste in my mouth. And affects my fellow Canadian brethren who still live in that god forsaken province in un-constitutional and inhumane ways.
Then, when I add to that the French coming to Ontario (and other parts of Canada outside of the perceived French bastion “province” of Quebec) demanding bilingualism (which in and of itself I somewhat acceptable in on “some levels” and in small doses) BUT adding that extra bit of “stick it to ya” kinda thing which the French are famous for and which you can see at the university of Ottawa which is “supposed to be a bilingual institution in Ontario” they start taking over and not only do we see bilingual but — it is French dominant and FRENCH FIRST.
That just irks me. The same applies to the Montfort hospital.
If it were possible and “ALL OF THIS” were happening in reverse (being ½ French I KNOW THIS to be TRUE) the French would be screaming mad at just the suggestion of such a f*&%ed up situation.
In their heaviest Marois accent I can hear them say, “You hhhwo_ant hhh_your province to be hh_ooonly hh_inglis, hh_en den hh_you come hh_over hh_ere and you whhant hh_us to be accepting of disssss hhhinglish ting hhhhh_ere too? If hh_you want bilingual here it MUST BE French first and predominant. (that’s if they would even allow — THAT MUCH—which I doubt being the megalomaniac types you are, oops I mean they are)
Naw, it’s not a case of simply wanting ONLY French in Quebec and bilingualism everywhere else. That’s not good enough for you/them.
They want EVERYTHING TO BE either French first, or better yet, FRENCH ONLY. People like you are just carrying on the way you are in the hopes we don’t notice and carrying on with the idea that if you spew enough of your “doublespeak” we will drink from that fountain for long enough until it is irreversible.
But, you know what?
There are MANY OF US (we still have the majority numbers) who have NOT drank the cool-aid and we are growing in numbers on a daily basis. We are FED UP with paying for YOUR dream and the French dream… We are starting to WAKE UP and realize what is happening so, brace yourself and get ready for the change in attitude… It’s coming to a town, city and province — near YOU —
Oh but in the meantime… Remember, have a nice day eh 🙂
Pierre
March 17, 2013 at 11:24 am
“The fact is that english on signs is allowed everywhere in Québec as long as french is prodominant. as english dominates most sings in the ROC.”
What about outside signs of business?Yes English is dominant in the rest of Canada because 96% are English DUH!
“Most bussinesses agree with that law as it makes good bussiness sense in this very french speaking province.”
I guess Pierre you talk to all those business owners -so why in 2 months has businesses for sale up near 300% then,its not the economy as that would be a slow loss of businesses.
The OQLF does not investigate illigal or illegal bussiness practices signs unless there are complaints from the public.
Yup 1 complaint and the brown-shirts show up!That’s PASTA AND YOU KNOW IT.
“You may call that encouraging complaints but, it’s not because there are thousands of complaint, every year, and the Office only follows up on a very, very few of them… ”
Bull PASTA
“Would you rather have them patroling the streets to find illegal signs… Let me tell you, they would be a lat more busy.”
What more PASTAGATE
Please Pierre credible sources ,and not because you say “I told you so”.
@highlander
Pastagate was a mistake that a zealous bureaucrat did and the head, of the Office lost he job over it. I believe her name was Madame Marchand but you could check that out.
I had told you, a while back, that words other than French, where accepted by the Office
She was a fall”girl”for the regime and was promoted to another position as assistant director of the liquor control board .
If social media and international media had not drawn attention and humiliated Quebec that act would have not been considered over zealous.
It was the social media and the international media in 60 countries that pointed out the fascist ideologies of the Quebec state.
Most were not surprised that the CBC (the state propaganda machine ) was one of the last media to pick up on PASTAGATE after all the social media and 60 countries and their many media outlets.
So That’s BULLPASTA and NOT is ALL Paul ROSEY in Quebec.
Pierre, so glad you brought up “Constitution act Clause 133”. This clearly shows why we need a full discussion on actual needs as opposed to wants of a few. That act refers to use of both languages in Parliament, not the forcing of English speakers to learn French for any job across Canada. And certainly not government employees allowed to work and be managed in the language of THEIR choice.
http://www.slmc.uottawa.ca/?q=constitution_act_1867
Anyone notice that Pierre and Pierre Denault have the same icon?
Pierre, the pasta incident may have been a mistake, but obviously that worker had the “tools” to effect change that must have been granted from a government level.
Anyway, I think Quebec is just “Alfredo” of English, but that is just my 2 “penne” s on the issue…..lol
Uh, Pierre, Quebecois have been asked to squeal…..Diane De Courcy, has urged all Quebecois to act as “sentries” of the language, reporting to the government anytime they spot a linguistic infraction.”
You can find the comment here http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/01/17/graeme-hamilton-even-as-parti-quebecois-tells-anglos-you-are-quebecers-their-actions-say-otherwise/
I have noticed something here…..
Never mind that we have personal stories indicative of being mistreated by Francophone sponsored laws including ones that discriminate based on language towards jobs…….
Butttttt, whenever we give examples of non-Francophones being mistreated in the Province of Quebec, Stella and Pierre are quick to demonize us to the point whereby we become so frustrated that mud slinging ensues…
AND ALL WE’RE DOING IS SHEDDING LIGHT ON WHAT THE MEDIA IS REPORTING!
In other words, we’re putting together two plus two. And yet, we highlight what the Canadian and international media are reporting and increasingly are forced to defend ourselves from Stella and company simply for discussing the issue! The only conclusion one can draw is that they (Stella and company) would much rather tuck all of these examples under the carpet as it makes their ilk look rather bad.
We talk about it and then are labelled as being anti-Francophone!?
This accusatory behaviour from Stella and company is inexcusable.
None of this is made up. Why would I invite sarcasm, hatred towards myself by making up stories of being mistreated at interviews for jobs? Why would I make up the fact that I have been told several times during interviews that, “I’m not French enough!”
Nobody in their right mind would come to public forums and make up what we’re saying. These things have happened to us and continue to do so. We’re open, frank and honest and are labelled as anti-Francophone for telling the truth?!
Not in my Canada!
Peter you wrote:
“Edudyorlik, I am currently in Buffalo on business, and while typing these blogs, I have invited an American, Michael Lawson to view some of the blogs here. He is a business consultant that deals in mergers and acquisitions.
After filling him in briefly, and reading a number of these posts, his reaction is that he is dumbfounded and shocked at first quebec, and second Canada for allowing this to continue. He said in the U.S. the french, acting like they are would be disavowed and cut loose real quick. This simply would NOT BE TOLERATED.
That any institution would hire solely on language, that people are assaulted by transit workers, because of language. That the word PASTA is a threat to the french language, same as “penis ring”. That children’s health are put at risk because a nationalist refused to speak English.That children in St Lambert were threatened and harassed because they spoke English. That a government openly encourage its people to “rat out ” their neighbors for using the world’s “international ” langugae. That a quasi-police force goes around “measuring the letter size” to make sure frnch is dominent.
That fines are issued to honest taxpaying citizens for trying to make a living, by using English , the international language of the world. Think how stupid this is
He read the “fraud squad’s” comments and laughed that actually some one would have the gaul to consistently make fools of themselves, and defend such reprehenseable acts
I refered him to sources in our history for references and he thanked me.”
Peter can you do me a favour? Could you please highlight the Galganov vs. Russel Township case and provide your business partner and people in New York state with all of the available information including links on CFN’s coverage of the entire affair. I would be interested in determining how people outside of Ontario/Quebec feel about this subject of forced bilingualism on signs.
Could someone give me a tissue…..these stories are tearing me apart. When children are dying, being threatened and harassed, when one can’t ask for a “penis ring” where transit workers are fighting with passengers and in eateries, sandwiches are flying all over the place……something is very wrong. **smile**
Just a word of advice when travelling East. GET YOURSELF A BULLET PROOF VEST…..if you value your life. No need to spend money on restaurants, enter a place, don’t order, just speak english and prepare to catch a flying snadwich.
The english do not deserve this……**smile**
stellabystarlight
March 18, 2013 at 11:27 am
Rights are Rights no matter the spin you may put on it ,it remains a violation of their rights.
You may attempt to trivialize it but rights are nothing to be trampled.
How would you feel if French in Ontario were treated as such ,you would no doubt be the first to complain,yet so would I as we are and still remain equal under god.
You prefer to trivialize the loss of rights of others in the interest of your ETHNOCENTRIC values ,but I will speak up when your rights or others are violated.
*****smile*****
Have a good day eh!
Some may even say, since they (many French and certainly those in power on many levels) are so blatantly and publicly anti-English and anti-Canadian — bill 101, refusing to speak English, speaking of English as if it is a disease etc etc)
Even the premier can’t stand to have the Canadian flag in the legislature. WTF?
What would be so bad if we WERE anti French? I don’t mean in in a way that we hate French people. No… i mean in a way that we are against what many French people are doing in the name of so called, “saving their language and culture?”
This one way street cr@p is on my BIG nerve. They can say it straight out and that’s fine but…
And re: Section 133
1) Either the English or the French language may be used by any person in the debates of the houses of the Parliament of Canada and of the houses of the Legislature of Quebec; and both those languages shall be used in the respective records and journals of those houses; and either of those languages may be used by any person or in any pleading or process in or issuing from any court of Canada established under this act, and in or from all or any of the courts of Quebec.
2) The acts of the Parliament of Canada and of the Legislature of Quebec shall be printed and published in both those languages.
————————
IMPORTANT SECTION…
Of course, section 133 DID NOT officially establish bilingualism throughout Canada; rather, it simply made it possible to use English and French in the federal Parliament, the Legislature of Quebec, the courts in the province of Quebec, and the federal courts.
————————–
Moreover, the Constitution Act, 1867 committed neither the federal government nor the public service under its jurisdiction to bilingualism. It was simply the “beginnings of official bilingualism.” Section 133 remains in effect today.
But yet, they use this propaganda and their double speak to give the impression that it did. I am so fed up hearing, “Canada has two official languages.” Get it straight. THAT DOES NOT MEAN Canada is bilingual. Need me to draw ye'(s) a freakin picture?
“Quebec and Canada are not equal when it comes to immigrants who want to send their children to publicly-funded schools in the minority language of a province. Section 23.1.a is in force across Canada, except Quebec.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/tony-kondaks/minister-montreal_b_1959766.html
STELLABYSTARLIGHT
Just an observation of your postings Stella and not a voice of criticism so please do not take the following for something that it is not . Although Pierre and I differ we have been civil with one another in our debates and I hope that you could follow suit.
You come across as extremely insecure Stella. Your continued reference to “English freedom fighters” suggests that your understanding of the reasons for your assertions that “the french language is declining” is rather limited at best.
Your protectionist stance suggests that you subscribe to the notion that in order to stem the downward slide of the French language and culture into the realm of obscurity all that one has to do is pass enough legislation.
The real power to preserve language and culture, I would submit for your consideration, lies in the hands of the interested people.
If, as you seem to suggest, the answer lies in legislation than perhaps you could explain why common sense has not been legislated ?
You come across as fearful that the English language and culture is responsible for the demise of another culture. I believe that Pierre would agree that if the Quebecois do not embrace their heritage on their own that in time it will be only found in history books.
I am Canadian first and foremost Stella but I am seventh generation Irish and no other language or culture can rob me of my heritage or my sons for it is up to me and now my son to
keep tradition and connection to heritage alive.
@Eric
I brought up the 133 constitution clause to make the point that bilingualism is the corner stone of Canada today, because it precedes the Constitution.
Keep on reading and you’ll see that a tradition of bilingualism and language laws precedes the 1867 Constitution.
You are right, in saying that clause refers to… Oh, i’m not going to repeat it again. You can’t see the forest for the trees, anyway.
We have bilingualism today. And, it is, what it is, and, if any changes are brought to this policy or its application, it will be to favor the use and the advancement of the French language, even more because, as I had stated before bilingualism had been neglected, in the ROC, in the first century following the 1867 Constitution.
I can understand that, and most open-minded Canadians and politicians, can too.
The fact that you can’t is also because you believe only anglophone medias who profit of your hate of the Francophone rights and of diversity.
Got to go. It’s SUPPERTIME
Don’t let your hate cut your appetite, eh.
But I’m not finished. Unless Admin deletes me, again, I’ll talk to you later.
Stella is just here to cause trouble.
Look at her latest rant:
“Could someone give me a tissue…..these stories are tearing me apart. When children are dying, being threatened and harassed, when one can’t ask for a “penis ring” where transit workers are fighting with passengers and in eateries, sandwiches are flying all over the place……something is very wrong. **smile**
Just a word of advice when travelling East. GET YOURSELF A BULLET PROOF VEST…..if you value your life. No need to spend money on restaurants, enter a place, don’t order, just speak english and prepare to catch a flying snadwich.
The english do not deserve this……**smile**
Tell me that this latest rant was submitted as a argumentative stance towards an issue? No, it wasn’t. It cannot even be classified as conjecture.
There is a reason why Stella hasn’t provided us with her real name. As for others who haven’t, I cannot explain that. I can only explain that when I post, I provide my real name.
Support other provinces. Quebec is going to the dogs…
They’ll be back begging for the English to bail them out.
Then we will put our British pinkys up, take a sip of tea, look down our noses and say “piss off ya bloody fools!”
We can say it French to ensure there is total understanding!!
Hello David,
You have the right to your opinion. Your comments are not taken as criticism. Constructive criticism is good.
David, if I remember correctly, you were not around when the language debate started 2 years ago. In case you were, I will not get into the nitty gritty of it all, except to say, the french posters were called every name in the book, we’re ridiculed and were attacked personally.
You wrote: You come across as extremely insecure Stella.
Quite the contrary……
You also wrote: The real power to preserve language and culture, I would submit for your consideration, lies in the hands of the interested people.
Absolutely David……but whether you agree or not, some of the interested people are extremist. Why don’t they go through the proper channels instead of disrupting this peaceful nation? They should do what they have to do and accept the consequences either way. you could explain why common sense has not been legislated ?
You said: you could explain why common sense has not been legislated ?
David…..let me say this. Quebec is another province, who are we to tell them what laws they can or cannot legislate? It just doesn’t make sake to most. If it was a federal issue, that would be a different story.
Again you wrote: I believe that Pierre would agree that if the Quebecois do not embrace their heritage on their own that in time it will be only found in history books…….I AGREE!!!
you wrote: I am Canadian first etc etc….no other language or culture can rob me of my heritage
No other culture has the right to rob anyone’s heritage, but know what? Many here if they had their choice french, would be wiped off the face of the earth……that my friend is a fact. They go as far as wanting to seperate this country….French side/ English side.
David I am reading a book right now called “Paris 1919” Lloyd George was starting a career in law. His uncle went through french grammar books to help LG learn french. Did it start a revolution……absolutely not.
So my questions to you are:
What is the big deal, when it has been going on for 100 years?
Why the you tube videos?….they add no value.
Sometimes one gets carried away…..it happens to all of us.
@ cory
Hi Cory,
Mr. Lawson is in Europe right now, he flew to NY city on the weekend and then onto Europe.
I will however, forward him what you requested. I have also sent updaes to many in New York state businesses, particulatly when marois was in NY city trying to drum up business.
People are aware andd becoming very cognisent of what is happening. They are particularly concerned regarding education .
@David Oldham
I would like to ad to Stella’s response to you concerning your opinion, of her, seeming to be insecure.
I find it weird, if i may say so, that you would find Stella insecure, and not the ones who accuse and condemn her, and others, for stating an opinion, that differs from theirs.
David, who is it that fears that all of Canada and its institutions, are being changed into a French only country, because of bilingualism in the federal public service and in a few other places in Canada, where there have been Francophones, since before Confederation.
Is that not extreme insecurity or xenophobia considering the extreme attration of the English language?
It’s true that the preservation of the minority languages rests in the hands of the interested people. But French is not just another one of 200 minority languages. It is the language of one of the two founding people of Canada and the official language of the province/nation of Québec.
To protect the institutions of Québec, you must protect it’s language.
That makes all the difference in the world, and I would hope it makes a difference to you, David.
As to Stella’s calling that clan, freedom fighters is, when all is taken into account, very complimentory.
I believe that this needs more detailing but I don’t want Admin to delete this message to you.
So, read my mind.
Thanks so much Peter for your attention regarding this matter.
I am interested in discovering how others view this matter; those who have no vested interest how language is viewed in Canada. I would like to collect the viewpoints of those around the world as to how they view this matter and all it entails.
A good starting point for what is occuring in Quebec and Ontario are the stories and letters to the editor that have been submitted to CFN. In other words, CFN is a great starting point to see how these language laws have impacted the very people living under their influence.
I’m curious, are there any readers out there who aren’t Canadian or Canadians living abroad and who haven’t been impacted by all of this?
If there are, would you care to give us your take on this language fairness debate – specifically how it applies to jobs?
How do you feel that in Canada language is considered in a job before merit?
cory wrote: How do you feel that in Canada language is considered in a job before merit?
Hmmm……not quite accurate.
If the requirement is to be FLUENT in both official languages and the applicant isn’t, they shouldn’t apply…..they do not qualify. It has nothing to do with merit.
Why would someone apply for a dental assistant position when they never studied dentistry? Not complicated.
Stella said,
“Could someone give me a tissue…..these stories are tearing me apart. When children are dying, being threatened and harassed, when one can’t ask for a “penis ring” where transit workers are fighting with passengers and in eateries, sandwiches are flying all over the place……something is very wrong. **smile**”
You are a heartless person Stella, why do you make fun of people’s pain & oppression. How can you sleep at night????
SHAME ON YOU STELLA!!!!
This young boy was attacked for being ENGLISH!
http://www.cjad.com/CJADLocalNews/entry.aspx?blogEntryID=10442669
You will get yours one day Stella, maybe not in this life, but you will be judged by a higher power & you will not be getting great reviews!!!!
@ Pierre. Not much use “trying to debate” most of the other stuff you wrote as i can’t even begin to wrap my head around the absurdity of most of it but, i will pose this question to you.
–
In your previous post in you wrote, “two founding people of Canada and the official language of the province/nation of Québec.”
In referring to Quebec as “a province / nation.” i ask you
Which is it Pierre? Is Quebec a province or a nation? Which one Pierre?
Also, someone of your obvious superior higher intelligence Pierre MUST be able to, when you say things like, “two founding people of Canada and the official language of the province/nation of Québec” let us all know how it is that if this statement is TRUE then how is it that Quebec has done away with one of those “official languages” Pierre?
Doesn’t “two official languages” in Canada apply to ALL OF CANADA and doesn’t the phrase this country is bilingual mean that ALL of CANADA is bilingual?
Doesn’t appear as if there is too much sanity involved in anything you’re saying Pierre… Oh, i know, It’s the old “double speak” routine isn’t it Pierre?
OK, carry on…
And remember. Have a nice day eh 🙂
@ cory
Thanks , for your reply. I don’t know if this will be posted, however I will do my best.
it seems everything I write lately has not been been posted,
i will carry the message far and wide.
Stella said,
“David, if I remember correctly, you were not around when the language debate started 2 years ago. In case you were, I will not get into the nitty gritty of it all, except to say, the french posters were called every name in the book, we’re ridiculed and were attacked personally.”
One question:
ARE YOU DELUSIONAL OR A HABITUAL LIAR????
David, feel free to browse thru the archives & you will find the truth. Personally, I think Stella belongs to a Francho group & she is being paid with our own tax dollars to harass commenters on this forum.
Just remember the source David….
Stella said,
“If the requirement is to be FLUENT in both official languages and the applicant isn’t, they shouldn’t apply…..they do not qualify. It has nothing to do with merit.”
WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG
Merit is education requirements, language is an asset.
@ cory
Actually, you can go the NY. state bussiness association and request email addresses of various businesses. I looked it up and sent emails to a ton of people. I don’t know the exact name of the site ,but you can google NY state business and go from there.
Hope this helps. Another idea may be appealing as well. write to Vremont. New York and Maine tourism and get the names of various businesse and then email them links that we use here.
I have also done this and continue to do this when incidents occurr that merit me sending these emails.
Poutine gestapos;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8k2hEA7Inc
@HIGHLANDER
I make the presumption that you meant to say “Quebec and the remainder of Canada”. On that basis Highlander you point eludes me. Why would they be equal ? Regional and culture differences set aside leaves perhaps the main reason for lack of universal conformity, education is provincially legislated not federally.
In countries comprised of states, provinces or territories legislation is reflective of the varying needs relating to regional or cultural differences and/or accepted norms/beliefs.
Would you therefore believe and argue that because some of the states in the U.S.A. have the death penalty, that the others should participate in the same behaviour? That because a couple of states have decriminalized marijuana the others should by some right follow suit?
People of all provinces are free to travel and work unrestricted anywhere in Canada. Immigrants coming to this country make choices, just as we all do.
When a significant number of Canadians are restricted from entering the Public Service due to an overzealous and in my opinion wrongful application of the official languages act, to say that I find this disturbing would be a understatement. The bar continues to be set lower and lower and yet lower again for the simple reason that when you eliminate some 80% of the talent pool in favour of the best of the remaining 20% or so, expect the problems to increase significantly over time.
The problems facing this country are not all language or cultural related issues although they definitely factor into our reality. By far the worst factor impeding our future as a cohesive country, in my opinion, is our overwhelming apathy. We choose to allow ourselves to be controlled by various minorities, numerically speaking, rather than a collective majority. So we suffer the consequences primarily because we are so adept at excuse making on election day and our stubborn refusal to hold our public officials accountable.
It is always easier to blame others than face the simple truth that individually each one of us is at fault.
I did not mean to single you out Highlander. All need to end the senseless barrage of internet links and hate and fear mongering and resolve to make this country the envy of the world and not the continuous material for jokes and ridicule. Just me thinking out loud, no offense intended Highlander.
Peter or whomever you are your posts are deleted because you keep making personal attacks of a nature that will not be allowed. And you whine. Don’t waste my very valuable time and your posts go through. Changing your posting name is not a solution. Changing how you post is.
cc2 sorry bud…….if the employer is looking to fill a position, we will say in nursing, and one of the requirements (ALONG WITH NURSING OF COURSE) is being fluent in both official languages, and the applicant is not fluent……they should not apply because they DO NOT MEET THE REQUIREMENTS FOR THE POSITION. They may be qualified…but do not meet the requirements.
When the job posting states both are necessary….it means both are necessary…..not complicated.
Stella pens:
“If the requirement is to be FLUENT in both official languages and the applicant isn’t, they shouldn’t apply…..they do not qualify. It has nothing to do with merit.
“Why would someone apply for a dental assistant position when they never studied dentistry? Not complicated.”
Comparing apples and oranges, Stella.
“If the requirement is to be FLUENT in both official languages and the applicant isn’t, they shouldn’t apply…..they do not qualify. It has nothing to do with merit.
It has everything to do with merit whenever the laws of a country prohibit more than 80% of it’s population from applying to jobs due to not speaking a language and not considering this huge, majority pool of applicants and the OTHER merits they hold.
By default, you create a faulty criteria whereby the successful candidate(s) are chosen from a selected pool of applicants; one of whose only main criteria is a language spoken, read and written.
Your next point:
“Why would someone apply for a dental assistant position when they never studied dentistry? Not complicated.”
Someone who studied dentistry could have done so in any number of languages. My guess is that a student could have studied dentistry in at least 50 languages on Earth. I would much rather have someone identifying a cavity and/or pulling a tooth and able to do so most efficiently than what language they’re going to converse with me in.
So you see Stella. Well, perhaps after 2 years you don’t. I want to emphasize that the tasks performed in a given job are more important than the language in which it is served. However, I can see only 2 instances where this wouldn’t be so.
1) Diplomacy between nations
2) Translation services
These 2 situations require precise translations so you know what the other person is thinking/gauging.
I can sit here and converse with you in either Francais ou Anglais. But alas I don’t even like you to begin with.
Hope this makes things crystal clear for you and you understand what I mean.
Mr. c, Today as HR manager I am interviewing candidates to fill a positon.
The REQUIREMENTS are: Diploma
Must be fluent in English and Mandarin
So on….so on.
Now tell me, why would anyone in their right mind apply if they couldn’t speak fluently Mandarin? Hello!!! Like I said .not complicated. You qualify or you don’t….ca-vas?
cory wrote: By default, you create a faulty criteria whereby the successful candidate(s) are chosen from a selected pool
Faulty criteria……absolutely not. If, as a manager I say I need a bilingual candidate, that is what I need and that is who I will hire. Point finale.
again the c writes: Someone who studied dentistry could have done so in any number of languages. My guess is that a student could have studied dentistry in at least 50 languages on Earth. I would much rather have someone identifying a cavity and/or pulling a tooth and able to do so most efficiently than what language they’re going to converse with me in.
Not even worth responding to……makes no sense.
Trust me the feelings are mutual……
@ admin
When I post to correct pierre, WITHOUT any insults , it is not posted.
see last Saturday evening ( March 16th. ) on my post, I accidently posted as Pater, this was an honest mistake.
Same with last evening, again my post not published to pierre.
My name was changed, because when I posted under my real name, ed, began doing research on me, outside of this site.
You seem not to know the difference between some one who questions your rationale and a whine. Also it takes me a very long TIME to write these posts, my time is as valuable, if not more than yours.
And Jamie, please don’t take this personally, I know you don’t take criticism well, but I do appreciate your response. Now let me correct pierre, please.
No Peter. I just don’t need my time wasted. Far too many of your posts are over the line and with over 30,000 comments on CFN in four years I can’t devote time to people the don’t respond to clear communication. If you post abuse I don’t even read your posts generally. I just delete them. If your posts don’t make it through it’s because you can’t control yourself and we won’t waste valuable time repeatedly communicating this to you. Semantics don’t cut it.
David Oldham
March 18, 2013 at 11:37 pm
“Quebec and Canada are not equal when it comes to immigrants who want to send their children to publicly-funded schools in the minority language of a province. Section 23.1.a is in force across Canada, except Quebec.”
This quote was from the huffington post and it was a novel approach at looking how the treatment of immigrants and minority language services in the prospective regions.
David I take no offence as constructive criticism is a great approach to define each others viewpoint .
Sadly on these comments boards there is a tendency of de-constructive criticism and has been utilized as a tool well when one has no substance in their argument .
Our group is in frequent communication with numerous English language groups across the country .
David the common theme is oppressive language laws,and a class system that is being created because of inequity of treatment of citizens.
I do not advocate fear mongering ,but to educate the people of Canada the reality of what fellow citizens experience within their borders.
I have always advocated that to provide those language services it should be “representation by population”.
I have heard from Stella many,many ,many times state that I am trying to separate the country and get ELIMINATE french.
There is NOTHING in my past posts that have said anything of the sort -so may I suggest that the direction of people to look at fear mongering be directed at her.
I have asked for measurable ,fair and equitable approach to language services “representation by population” and have been labelled -anti-french ,bigot ,and numerous other comments by the “fraud Squad” yet why would they argue against “fairness”.
stellabystarlight
March 18, 2013 at 6:31 pm
“Absolutely David……but whether you agree or not, some of the interested people are extremist. Why don’t they go through the proper channels instead of disrupting this peaceful nation?”
You see David ,I and others are deemed extremist because we do not agree with this person who uses propaganda as her tool.
-So asking for a measurable , fair and equitable approach to providing language services is extremist ?
Stella for you -If applicants are applying for a position and that position is deemed bilingual all applicants CV`s/resume that are not “classified” bilingual are not even looked at -this would negate all education or experience those individuals have attained.
Therefore Language is deemed more important then MERIT.
Yes language is an asset like many other assets but it should not be the exclusionary measure in the decision process .
Skills are attained and maintained and remain unique ,to decide on one factor (language ) is truly discriminatory!!!
Once again I would like to share a little paragraph from the book “Paris 1919” which I find most interesting
Serbian was decreed the language of business.
Shop signs had to be in Cyrillic Alphabet although the latin script might be used as long as it came underneath.
So folks…..nothing has changed nor is it new. Quebec is not the only place where language was put into law. Language laws have been in existance for over a 100 years.
On that note…..enjoy your day, don’t be stressed!! **smile**
stellabystarlight
March 19, 2013 at 9:27 am
“Mr. c, Today as HR manager I am interviewing candidates to fill a positon.”
Does your employer approve of you spending “your employers time “to push your agenda by posting on here or is the government in full approval of this?
So as the HR department was it a private employer or State run ?
And are all those positions deemed bilingual mandarin such as most positions are here in Eastern Ontario with bilingual french?
There is a difference in providing a service and pushing a language!
@ peter,
So , what you saying is that anything I post you delete, as evidenced by my post from the weekend to pierre, which WAS NOT ABUSIVE , but rather educational.
Right ? Just wanted clarity FOR THE FUTURE.
P.S. When I am in Cornwall I would like to have lunch with you, on me. you get a different perspective of who I am.
And BTW, the absolutely best smoked meat in Montreal is at The Main deli, across the street from schwartz’s, try a medium fat with fries and a pickle and slaw. I’ll buy as well.
@ David Oldham
First of all I must ask you to confirm with a simple, yes or no, if you are Stephen??
You seem, to me, to be of a same mind and character.
Why do you people do that? To make it look like your more, than what you really are?
You wrote that we disagree with one another, but stay civil.
That is true and, believe me, when I say that, I would much rather exchange with a civil opponent that what is the majority of posters here.
It begs the question, as to why you do not continue to exchange with me because, believe me, I have the answers to the questions that seem to haunt you.
Are you affraid that you would have to resort to the same dirty tactics used by those others (unsubstantiated denials, answering a question with another question, referances to other opinion blogs, accusations, put-downs, etc. because, you cannot come up with reasonable answers to my arguments, while still refusing to change your mind, or have it changed by reasonable arguments?
Just a thought.
For example, I would have debated your statement as to lowering, & lowering & lowering the bar pertaining to bilingualism in the Federal public service.
If you had debated that opinion, with me, before stating it, I would have said that 80% of the applicants are not eliminated because of the bilingualism policy, in the federal public service… How you know, anyways? did you check all the applications?
No, you just figured that 80% of Anglos are unilingual, so there.
But, most unilingual Canadians are not all from the Ottawa region where most of the FPS is situated and where that hiring pool is.
The National Capital Region is the area, in Canada, that is the most bilingual and is getting more so, day after day.
Anglos are becoming bilingual at a the Road Runner’s pace. It’s true that the number of Francophone as surpassed that of the Anglophone, in the FPS but that number will surely even out, in the very near future, as a multitude of bilingual Anglophone students graduate.
Anyways it’s only since the seventies that the Francophone form the majority in the FPS in Ottawa/Gatineau.
Before that time, the anglophone had always formed the majority, in the FPS.
You can check that out…
And where were you(s) then to defend the right of the bilingual francophone to work for their Federal Government before the seventies?
RE: post by: concerned citizen 2 ON March 18, 2013 at 11:19 pm “ Poutine gestapos”
That was fun…
Stellanotsobright wrote, “The REQUIREMENTS are: Diploma
Must be fluent in English and Mandarin
Now tell me, why would anyone in their right mind apply if they couldn’t speak fluently Mandarin? Hello!!!”
–
Yeah, how about this concept Stella?
How about lets say that Mandarin (at 0.004% of the total Canadian population) and Spanish (at .002% of the total Canadian population) were suddenly the only two language requirements for ALL jobs in Canada Stella.
Where would that leave — YOU — Stella?
Wouldn’t you be a bit peeved at the idea that you didn’t qualify for ANY JOBS — at all — in your own country?
Wouldn’t the prospect of no being able to find employment so you could pay for rent and food and take care of your children in your own country
not irritate the hell out of you?
There is no doubt that YOU WOULD BE quite irritated at that idea.
It would be rather unfair that ALL JOBS were –only– available to such small numbers of the representation of the people of Canada or even your own town or city?
“Not complicated. You qualify or you don’t….ca-vas?”
This is NOT a 50% vs 50% situation Stella. There are only maybe 4% French IN ALL OF Ontario (96% NON French).
Funny how you can use numbers when it come to Quebec to say things like “well, they have 80% French so it makes sense that they have French as the common or only language in Quebec”
BUT, can’t manage to understand the numbers difference anywhere else.
That’s the big difference which you are either too thick to understand or just simply refuse because you are an agitator.
HERE, GET YOUR LANGUAGE POLICE FRIENDS TO
MEASURE THESE LETTERS TO SEE WHICH ARE BIGGER
and remember to have a nice unemployed day eh 🙂
howard, if mandarin was one of the official languages and had a population of 7 million plus…i’d go for it. Bilingual services aren’t a question of money. As I have proven in the past, it adds up to less then 1 percent of the national budget. SO what else could it be then ? That some feel the language is imposed…It isn’t. You have the right to speak whatever language you want. In Québec you can attend schools, you can work and be quite successful if you’re anglo. (example: Former director of la caisse de dépôt) Some say it is a choice not to learn a language or to work in one language instead of another. So where does is it stop after that ?.. Should it be a choice to drive 150 miles per hour ? Should it be a choice to hire men only for jobs that are in construction, in mechanics or in industry field ? And why am I talking about Québec again, I’d be the luckiest francophone alive if I had all the services Québec provides to its anglophone community. I’d say at least…thank you David Peterson…at least we have bill 8.
Richard tremblay
March 19, 2013 at 2:19 pm
Richard I do not see anyone on here by the name of howard.
howard, if mandarin was one of the official languages and had a population of 7 million plus…i’d go for it.
So you would agree to 65% of all Government hires to be mandarin?
Once again Richard its not as much a cost issue but a human rights issue .
Question -Do you believe in measurable fair and equitable language service such as representation by population ?
Please answer this simple question:
“And why am I talking about Québec again, I’d be the luckiest francophone alive if I had all the services Québec provides to its anglophone community. I’d say at least…thank you David Peterson…at least we have bill 8.”
To tell you the truth Francophones with significant less population then that of English in Quebec has many more services provided.
As for bill 8 it was passed at 2am in the morning and 55 of the 125 members where there to vote on it .
The documentation was originally in( French) and a week later was put into English -that’s akin to bill 101 written in originally English .
Society never decided on this and being it effected their day to day life and employment it should have been at least debated ,but it wasn’t.
So Richard once again the Question -Do you believe in measurable fair and equitable language service such as representation by population ?
Pierre
March 19, 2013 at 12:31 pm
23% francophone does not justify 65% bilingual requirements .
That is why representation by population must be implemented as a fair equitable practice and can have a measurable outcome.
FPS goes across Canada and federal parks in the west must be bilingual as well ,of which more service is needed for Japanese then french .
All federal institutions across the country require those positions to be 65% bilingual .B.C which is 1.4 % francophone yet all federal positions there are 65% bilingual.
Newfoundland which is .4% francophone population yet all federal positions there are 65% bilingual.
Now if you had a population of .4% of a linguistic group as a private business would you hire 65% for intention of that linguistic group?
Would you do so even when other linguistic groups have a far greater population?
So Pierre do you believe in a measurable ,fair and equitable approach to linguistic services such as Representation by population?
Please answer thanks.
If the job says bilingual..
Job Posting Cornwall Standard Freeholder
oops.
Stella as you say “If the requirement is to be FLUENT in both official languages and the applicant isn’t, they shouldn’t apply…..they do not qualify. It has nothing to do with merit.”.
Okay Stella tell me if you had all of the qualifications for the following job posting in the Cornwall Standard Freeholder on Saturday March 16th. Cornwall Community Hospital “Accounting Clerk” Temporary Part-time. The Accounting clerk is responsible for the recording and sending of invoices and the receiving of payments. Required qualifications include the completion of a 2-year Community College program in accounting, a minimum of 2 years experience with a computerized accounting system, knowledge of operation of general ledger and sub-ledgers and functional proficiency in both official languages…….(functional means advanced)…why would one who has all of the other qualifications but not bilingual not apply to this part-time temporary position…
I don’t know where you were in the 70’s Pierre, but most of us were probably not born yet.
Yes there was an issue then, it has long since been rectified to satisfy needs. We need an unbiased consultation on language in this country, soon.
Don’t get caught up with the Ottawa/Gatineau numbers from the federal census, that skews results for Ottawa.
2011 census lists 500,000 English only speakers, and you know what Highlander means by 80% and 20%. The numbers are more 70 and 30 in Ottawa, but there are still 500,000 that would be screened out because of language.
We hear so much about the rights of the 500,000 Francophones in Ontario, well, what about the 500,000 English only speakers in Ottawa?
Richard Tremblay that less than 1% you mention, should we take more from health care or the military to increase it?