CFN – Is it time to boycott all things Quebec? A boycott is a severe thing; but with Bill 14 looming and the strange occurrences since the last election there that never seem to be resolved could it be best if people give La Belle Province a wide berth for awhile?
Don’t get me wrong; as a former Montrealer there are many things I still love about the once great city.
But I could go a summer without Schwartz’s and steamies if it makes a statement.
Frankly I visit “back home” less and less. It’s not just the crazed roads and constant construction. It’s not just the all too more frequent customer service issues if I dare speak “Anglais”.
It’s this darn Bill 14. It’s the fact that things became so bad in Quebec that the people of Quebec decided to grant Ms Marois a government.
In Canada we still have free choice; and frankly my choice is leaning towards making my little statement. My one little token of boycotting Quebec until after Labour Day. I think I can do it.
Yes, I’ll still visit my family; but I won’t be dining or spending any money there. Do I expect my little boycott to change anything? Not really; but imagine if millions of people did?
Politicians rely on people never doing anything no matter how badly they behave. They’re used to manipulating small groups of people to grab power. When I wrote during the student tuition protests that it simply was PQ agitation I think the election results showed how right myself and many others of the same belief were.
Quebec made its choice. In some ways I think it was a good one because people can focus on the brutally ugly culture of linguistic facism that exists. Francophones in Quebec will have to realize that the only people that can save French in Quebec are Francophones. Anglophones, and Allophones are not to blame and not the issue. It’s time to stop punishing the English language and culture hoping that Quebec will become some Francophone Mecca.
Until Quebec changes its ways the results will essentially be the same.
Now the big question is why the Federal government remains so silent on what’s happening to Canadians living in Quebec that don’t subscribe to the provincially mandated madness, and why they are abdicating those citizens rights…
Jamie Gilcig – Editor – CFN
(Comments and opinions of Editorials, Letters to the Editor, and comments from readers are purely their own and don’t necessarily reflect those of the owners of this site, their staff, or sponsors.)
Richard tremblay
March 31, 2013 at 3:27 pm
Well the Quebec Government removed these sighns :
http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/canada/archives/2013/03/20130301-111341.html#.UVg5yGHAAyk.facebook
Read bill 101 Richard then bill 14 perhaps then you will be informed ,but accepting the reality I think not.
@ trembly,
You are kidding right? One sign in the Entrance of a casino, and you call this bilingual ?? Give me a break.
Tell me, trembly, how many English external signs are there on the main street in Hull , that displays, promotes, English business. Again, I defy you to name the street and business. YOU CAN’T BECAUSE THEY DO NOT EXIST> If they did you would be the first , along with pierre, to ( RAT OUT FELLOW CITIZENS ) call the L’Office de la screw les Anglais, crying your language is being threatened, your language is being threatened. Boo-HOO poor you, TI Babe la-la.
The guy talks about a sign INSIDE the CASINO at the entrance.
Again, nice try trembly, spin this to some one who is brainless or was born yesterday.
As for exaggerations, I can BACK UP WITH Bill 101 ALL that I have said.
You can’t and NEVER COULD> Please do not use the word friends when referring to me, I am very particular who I call friend.
Again, this is the best you can come up with? Nonsense, as usual.
Rant, rave, rhetoric , supposition , rumor, BUT NEVER,EVER ANY FACT
I notice, you sidestepped my responses to you regarding education in quebec. I noticed you sidestepped my responses regarding the HONORABLE STAPHANE GRENDRON, I noticed , again , you only addressed some, mickey mouse sign inside
a casino door. You select what you want to respond to, typical, no guts.
You should be privy to the people’s comments that read your crap, when I show it to them, you are turning making a fool of yourself into an art form.
@ stella
quebec will separate, you have to be living on another planet, not realize that. quebec, will hold another referendum. That is guaranteed.
The next referendum, will be held, in conjunction with winning conditions. What that entails, is that once bill 14 is passed, again, many more anglophones will leave, and with them, more no votes. So it is only a matter of time.
Be it in the near future, or down the line they will go. With it all of your Canadian security will go with it, along with these cushy jobs you and yours were bribed with.
This is your fear stella, as long as Canada caters to the french all is fine, however, when this ends, and it will, your security will go with it. That is the reason the FRAUD SQUAD PRETENDS to act like they are Canadian, and seemingly supporters of Canada.
None of you know the slightest thing about Canada, or her history, as evidenced by the ignorant comments, inaccuracies and falsehoods posted by the FRAUD SQUAD.
You try to PORTRAY, bilingualism as a reasonable experiment. It is Not. You attempt to place rumor and supposition above fact. it is not. A perfect example is trembly trying to portray quebec as fair to the English business community by referring to an enclosed obscure sign in the foyer of the hull casino and expecting people to actually buy into this garbage.
trembly attacked me, because I am educated, successful, knowledgeable and have an affinity for attention to detail
He criticizes me for being successful and talented.Instead, of learning from this, he goes into a shell of ignorance and stupidity to save face, and let his misguided pride eclipse logic.
I can understand you fears being part of a language that has felt insecure, but there is no reason for this. The french language, will never, disappear, but nor will it be openly accepted , if it is FORCED ON US. Would you like a language, any language, to be FORCED on you ???
peter wrote: Would you like a language, any language, to be FORCED on you ???
YES I would…..it’s the stepping stone to a better and more productive life as far as employment is concerned. It also would add merit to a resume. In BC they are encouraging students to learn Mandarin.
Refusing to make the effort or ignoring the option of learning a language would be detrimental to anyone’s future.
NO ONE IS FORCED TO LEARN ANY LANGUAGE. The choice is yours to make, however, by refusing, you are only harming yourself.
In BC no one is forced to learn Mandarin…..it’s a choice. If one is smart, they will learn it…….PLAIN AND SIMPLE
Stella you are now forced to learn French to a high level of profciency if you wish to work in the Federal government. If you want to rise above a certain rank in our military. If you want a good job or advancement at CCH. There is no “choice.” If you want to be judge, if you want almost any job in the public service.
If you and the others behind the push to force French on Canada at these levels wish it to be then our schools across the board should turn out students with those skills.
It’s not the learning of French or the French language that are the root of this issue. It’s the sneaky and malicious Social Engineering that’s gone on. That’s why Canadians need to have a National discussion about language and what we really want across the board. We need to come to one level that’s equal for all Canadians and put this entire debate to rest.
Whatever a truly informed Canada would decide I’m sure would be satisfactory for 99% of Canadians. What are you so afraid of?
@ stella
If you want to have a language FORCED on you, then you are in a minority. No one, unless, like stella, you want to save face, wants anything FORCED on them. The only only reason you say you want language forced on you, is because, if you don’t say it, it would mean agreeing with me.
We can’t have that stella, can we ?
People will accept choice over forced compliance . Canada, is a nation 0f 28-30 million Anglo speaking people. because, the federal government, feels it has to bow to quebec, doesn’t mean the rest of Canada agrees or adheres to this. I live in an Anglo community that sees no need or benefit to be bilingual. Many people choose to become bilingual, but , they CHOOSE to be, they are not forced. This is the very reason why, a mere 17% of the country is bilingual. When you try to ram something down someone’s throat, they resent it, and go the other way.
That is why this policy is a dismal failure. Mandarin , is not the language of the majority in B.C. The people that converse in Mandarin , ALL KNOW ENGLISH, and are fluent in it.
There is no forced Mandarin, but there is FORCED bilingualism , in that the federal government prevents people from working unless they are bilingual. There is simply no justification for this policy given that the number of francophones is “less” than a third of Canada’s population, and service can be provided by translators, at much more economical costs to the Canadian taxpayer, the majority of whom are English.
@ stella,
I am very smart, I am not bilingual, and I am very, very successful. How again does bilingualism benefit me , and millions in Canada, like me ? Why is it necessary to be bilingual ?
Answer it isn’t. This is failed policy to appease the french, why, I don’t know. Since the inception of bilingualism, in 1969, at a cost of billions of dollars, tension, between the french and the English, and a success rate of only 17 % , it is a policy that should be scrapped. In the private sector, any experiment or project with a flimsy 17% success rate, would be abolished long ago. It is economically unsound and unwanted by the Canadian population. If Canadians, really saw it as a benefit, then a hell of lot more than 17% would be bilingual.
BTW: this 17% figure include quebec. Without quebec, the percentage would be only 4% bilingual.
stellabystarlight
March 31, 2013 at 8:30 pm
“peter wrote: Would you like a language, any language, to be FORCED on you ???
“YES I would…..it’s the stepping stone to a better and more productive life as far as employment is concerned. It also would add merit to a resume. In BC they are encouraging students to learn Mandarin.”
So Stella lets get this right you agree with forcing a language.
The difference in your above statement is that its encouraged not mandated through legislation!!!!!
So you think that as the Chinese population outnumbers the francophone’s that its alright to mandate mandarin and force people to learn it ?****smile****
stellabystarlight
March 31, 2013 at 8:35 pm
“NO ONE IS FORCED TO LEARN ANY LANGUAGE. The choice is yours to make, however, by refusing, you are only harming yourself.”
“In BC no one is forced to learn Mandarin…..it’s a choice. If one is smart, they will learn it…….PLAIN AND SIMPLE”
Yes Stella they are forced to learn french for Government opportunities .
How has providing french services of what was the original intention warped into now an exclusionary measure in the hiring process.
How has the providing the french services lead to all Canadians having to learn the language .If those children are not of french background would that not be cultural assimilation as there is a difference in preference to learn a language as opposed to STATE Legislated language.
Admin well said :If the fraud squad so called states “that 70% of people believe in bilingualism “,It should Once and for all be put to a vote as this directly effects their day to day living.
We as Canadians have never voted on this policy ,a free government does not tell you what you can speak ,next it will be what you can think!
It should be put to a vote by the people once -a referendum and implement the actions from there depending of the results.
There is a difference between providing a service and pushing it across Canada..
Our Country will change ,social media will play a part to inform ALL Canadians of the TRUE impact of this Social Engineering,a choice remains a choice not enforcement through legislation.
The shackles of oppression often originate from legislation.
disagree admin, you are not forced to learn another language. YOu know as well as I do that in the end very jobs are designated bilingual. PLus who says you have to work for the federal government ?17 % figure is wrong, if you count every canadian that can speak the 2 official languages it is closer to 10 million people. That is still alot. PLus who are you going to get to guarantee service to french speaking individuals ? Unilingual anglophones ? What you guys are expecting is that every french speaking individual learns english so you have more employment and that you means in you don’t have to learn french ?
Oh and peter, the sign I talked about at the casino was at the entrance, but it is outside. I wouldn’t give to much credit to any news report from the sun. THe sun and CFRA are too conservative, I don’t like listening to lowell green. All that media does is bash liberals while giving the conservatives a free ride.
peter
April 1, 2013 at 6:19 am
J.Allen estimated the cost of bilingualism at 3.4 trillion from 1969-2008 for a net increase of bilingualism of 0.1%.from 17.2 to 17.3% over 40 years .
Any business that invested in a project like this and had this poor return on investment would surely go bankrupt with continued investment.
Imagine that money could have payed our national debt 6x over and would truly benefited ALL Canadians ,but I digress its Social Engineering at any cost.
@ Admin
Hope you won’t mind if I take this one, for Stella, because I agree that there may be language social engineering, going on, in the FPS and, in a way, everywhere in Canada but, is it being done, in a sneaky and malicious way?
Hum, how could it be sneaky and malicious?
Well, what you should first realize and care about, first, is the fact that, without a high level of bilingual proficiency, no francophone can qualifie for those above mentioned sectors, either…
That may not be called ”choice” but it is, called ”justice”.
So, one’s recognition of that plain truth, does not make one a pusher of French, on Canada but, a pusher of bilingualism and justice on Canada.
As to having schools that turn out totally bilingual students… Rosie had brougth that question up before and, I was surprised to ear how little French was taught, in English schools, in Ontario and in most of the ROC (unlike in the English schools, in Québec).
I did think about it and came to the conclusion that either :
1) Bilingualism is implemented at a slower rate, in English speaking Canada, to get people used to it (you’re right Admin, that could be considered sneaky).
2) Or it is expected that those who wish to qualify for positions deemed bilingual imperative pursue their French language studies, on their own. Methods for learning languages are getting better and better, all the time.
3) Or, The federalists, weaker push for bilingualism, for Anglophones, is, to make sure that the Francophones are completely bilingual first because, when all the Francophone are completely bilingual, French will become obsolete…
Now, that would be totaly sneaky and malicious, don’t you think?
You’re right, Admin…
We may need to talk more about this.
@ Stella
Happy to see that you took my point as to the bad guys not being ”freedom fighters” at all.
Had they been fighting for free speech, they would have criticized the recent Supreme Court’s decission that sanctionned a Canadian’s right to express his homophobic opinions.
they did not!
What they are is something very different and all open-minded readers are starting to see it… That is becomiing, clear as glass.
Sure, no language forcing at all, even to load baggage on airplanes well away from front end customer service positions.
LINGUISTIC REQUIREMENTS
Based on equal qualifications, preference will be given to bilingual candidates. http://ca.jobomas.com/station-attendant-permanent-parttime-ottawa10823_iid_3787920
This is Ottawa, but does the ad for Quebec say the same?
Now I”m just thinking at 8 million french canadians even at 7 million canadians out of 32 million…doesn’t add up to 17 %.
@ Pierre “is it being done, in a sneaky and malicious way?”
In my opinion, yes Pierre.
@Admin
In my opinion, maybe.
I have suggestions three reasons for the implementation of bilingualism, 1,2,3. There could be many more.
Number 2 is not sneaky or malicious.
It would be more helpful Admin, if you did not jump to conclusion, so fast, but really looked at all the possibilities, as to whether or not, our Governments are what you accuse them of being.
It would also show you as being a more open-minded thinker, don’t you think?
I hope I won’t get deleted for asking that question.
@ Eric
”Based on equal qualifications” does not mean that bilingualism is a necessity.
Let me remind you that Air Canada is a Federal institution that has neve, in the past, met it’s bilingualism requirements.
It’s just trying to catch up, I guess.
Pierre
April 1, 2013 at 9:34 am
“As to having schools that turn out totally bilingual students… Rosie had brougth that question up before and, I was surprised to ear how little French was taught, in English schools, in Ontario and in most of the ROC (unlike in the English schools, in Québec).
I did think about it and came to the conclusion that either :”
What of the french schools in Quebec to teach English at the same level ?
You just don’t get it Pierre there is as much English in Quebec as there is french outside Quebec’s border,in true equality English should be taught as much as French.
“Court’s decission that sanctionned a Canadian’s right to express his homophobic opinions.”
Once again YOU DO NOT GET IT! I certainly do not agree with homophobic expressions ,but they are the opinion of that individual .
That being said ,Freedom of expression is just that .People are entitled to their opinions as you are with your warped opinions.
Should the state stop you from speaking your mind there Pierre even as Ra***T as your statements are?
You have a right to free speech as much as I ,or do you believe the state should control that message?
Freedom of expression is enshrined in the charter of rights ,we may not agree with a persons expressions and this includes your warped perception.
But that is the beauty of the charter that ALL can freely speak otherwise to control what people say is Socialism and would be oppression.
“What they are is something very different and all open-minded readers are starting to see it… That is becomiing, clear as glass.”
Absolutely different (not necessary wrong) and all open minded people will see ,we provide ample data unlike the fraud squad for them to make their choices.
This is about informing people of the linguistic reality,there would be no forcing (of which you would like) but letting them make decisions for themselves on the issue.
Or would you prefer an Orwellian Country,where the interest of the state in controlling the population must be upheld …..wait…I know you would prefer that in the interest of french.
Eric, read this phrase¨Based on equal qualifications, preference will be given to bilingual candidates.¨ Doesn’t say bilingualism required but it is an asset.
-Howard, J.Allan is contested sooo many times. And if you google his name, Language fairness and CFN come up, go figure. Add it up yourself howard, 2,4 billion times 43 years does not add up to 3.4 trillion. And that 2.4 billion is for 20 % of the population of canada, AND, on top of everything else, its less then 1 % of the national budget.
Richard tremblay
April 1, 2013 at 8:59 am
“YOu know as well as I do that in the end very jobs are designated bilingual. PLus who says you have to work for the federal government ?17 % figure is wrong, if you count every canadian that can speak the 2 official languages it is closer to 10 million people.”
Richard most government jobs are designated bilingual including Ontario.
So considering 1 in every 5 jobs are in one government service or another why should 83% of people be considered unqualified just on language basis alone.
Stats Canada has indicated that 17% are bilingual and that 10 million are people that know some of the both languages -hell my dog knows some French words as well should he be deemed bilingual to up those numbers ?
In Ontario French is the 14th most spoken language ,so why must all provincial services be bilingual french,how is bilingual enforcement not considered assimilation?
Why not provide language services that are reflective of those populations?
You see Richard unlike you I wish the Ontario government would provide language services with respect of a variety of languages ,but yet you call us bigots?Francophobes ,ect,ect.
Your interest is only for your cultural/language group ,and that is self serving , egocentric .
There remains over 200 languages and cultures in Canada and ALL should have equal respect.
Many languages are not even considered an asset as mandatory French bilingualism is required.
Pierre you need to break down some numbers.
Canada has 33,121,175 people 22,564,665 English only (68.12%)
5,795,575 Eng. & French (17.49%) (68.12+17.49=85.61% who can speak English then)
Quebec lists 3,328,725 as bilingual from a population of 7,815,955 and remove Quebec from Canada’s bilingual number = (2,466,850 of 25.305,220) 9.7%
But Pierre, French only speakers in Canada are 4,165,015. Deduct Quebec (4,047,175) leaves 117,840(0.46%) outside of Quebec. So who are we trying to help, French only, bilingual or politicians?
@ Pierre. WRONG again Pierre. Don’t you EVER get tired of being wrong? Its just got to be a heavy weight on your shoulders.
Pierre wrote, “Let me remind you that Air Canada is a Federal institution that has neve, in the past, met it’s bilingualism requirements.”
Air Canada is NO LONGER a federal institution. It is a private company that agreed (for reasons that are in line with the same stupid forced bilingualism policy in this country) to follow the federal mandate that it remain a bilingual entity even though it is now a private company.
Yet another waste of tax payers money and yet another area that shuts out the majority Anglophone tax payers of this country.
PS: i guess you’re still trying to find the “hate” in my videos, eh Pierre? As i said, the ONLY hate you will find Pierre stems from those on your side of this issue. Did you see it? Lot’s eh? Too bad your people HATE so much. What is it with that anyways? Why do they HATE the English people and the English language so much that they even try to ban it from pasta menu’s and abolish it by law from their little “province” over there which is ONLY a country in their own small minds.
@ admin
What the “fraud squad” and many like them are afraid of, is that , given a choice, the overwhelming majority of Canadians would choose English over french . This would burst their bubble and that of the feds as well.
So, their solution, is to put English Canadians in a POSITION THAT THEY HAVE TO BE BILINGUAL . THEREFORE FORCED
NO BILINGUALISM, NO JOBS. To hell with fairness.
This addresses two issues :
1) the federal government is SEEN as supporting bilingualism ( code for meaning french only )
2) It gives the IMPRESSION THAT CANADA IS TRULY A bilingual country in the eyes of both THE FRENCH HERE AND THE WORLD.
And MOST IMPORTANTLY it gets quebec votes.
They are also afraid of the militancy element that comes out of quebec.
I say , sacrificing basic and inalienable rights to appease the french is WRONG and the giving up of these in not worth social peace .
If there is one thing worth fighting for in this democracy it is the basic RIGHT TO CHOOSE at all levels of communication without government interference or dictated policies to appease a minority segment of the population.
Richard tremblay
April 1, 2013 at 12:32 pm
“Howard, J.Allan is contested sooo many times. And if you google his name, Language fairness and CFN come up, go figure. Add it up yourself howard, 2,4 billion times 43 years does not add up to 3.4 trillion. And that 2.4 billion is for 20 % of the population of canada, AND, on top of everything else, its less then 1 % of the national budget.”
So prove that his numbers are wrong are you a chartered accountant and financial researcher ?
HAVE YOU EVER SEEN THE BREAKDOWN OF HIS ANALYSIS ?
2.4 billion is low balling it by far ,how about the court costs and all those other fee’s that not included in that budget?
Those incurred costs are as well including all businesses and implementation,those costs do not as well include costs to train those employees to be bilingual in the federal government :
In fact I know of at least 5 that got trained for french had extensive time off of work payed !french courses payed and that was not within the bilingual budget but under department budget .
Yet those individuals said that so little of the language was used (1-2 times a year)that they have lost the communication skill -but hey they got the certificate for it..
Many unforeseen costs are not added .
But if you choose to refute the analysis of an expert based on “because You think so” please provide data that proves J.Allen wrong ,but before you do be informed and review his analysis as well.
@ trembly 12:32
What are the qualifications for a managerial position, it is preference or is it BILINGUALISM ( code for french only ) REQUIRED ?
Still waiting for those business names in Hull that have English signage trembly, what are their names and locations again ???
Perhaps you could forward a link with photos of these along with that of the casino sign, this ought to be great entertainment for us all.
Peter, or whatever your name is; addressing posters on CFN as “The Fraud Squad” is disrespectful. It weakens your positions and statement. It does the exact opposite of what you’re hoping to accomplish by slurring someone that way.
I’m not taking a side or defending anyone. You ask why many of your posts don’t make it and that’s one of the reasons. Debate the ideas; not the people.
@peter…It is far more impressive when others discover your talents, without your help……
@Pierre….when advise comes from unbiased, intelligent people, the advise is well taken…..**smile**
Will be back in a bit to respond to some of this BS….
@ edudyorlik
I know that you dumb dumb. Everybody who reads newspapers knows it.
It’s a detail that I omitted to elaborate on because it’s irrelevant in answering Eric’s post… And because, I’m not a hair splitter.
I don’t look at your videos. I know what they are.
Oh, lordy, lordy pants on fire…
The PQ government has already appologized for “pastagate”
Said it was the mistake of an over active bureaucrat. And the boss of the OQLF lost her job, or was transfered to a less important job, over it.
The proof that it was a mistake is that the Charter of the French Langage alllows for the use of other language words. Read it!
Your incapacity or unwillingness to admit that pastagate (and other such occurances) was/were a mistakes proof of your hate for the Francophone and of their language.
If we, on the other hand hated the Anglos or the English language we would refuse to speak it. Stella is more Anglo than Franco but she is an open-minded on.
But, keep it up. You’re making fools of yourselves and you sure are not growing your numbers… As far as I can see, your number may be down to four… If I don’t count Rosie and Eric because, there may be hope for them.
@highlander
LOL! What can we do except laugh at you(s)…!!!Caline de binne!!!
Now you believe that the Courts of Canada sanction a Canadian’s right to express his homophobic opinion. Ah LOL! LOL! LOL!
So,now you think speaking
French is homophobic…
Someone call in the white coats, it’s an emergency…
And it’s of if they’re Francophone… They’re government sanctioned homophobics. sic,sic,sic.
@ Admin
Surly you know that the term fraud squad is a nickname.
Jut as “the nightmare clan ” as pierre calls us ,refers to Cory, highlander, edudyorlik Eric and Rosie.
I take no offense to their referring to me as such. Its a nickname for God’s sakes.
You are confusing disrespect for levity. I don’t feel disrespected when I am referred to as part of the nightmare clan, as stated above.
However, it is your site, and I will have to use another name for the three of them . But it is a pain each and every time I have to mention all of their names when referencing all of them.
BTW: If and when you go back to Montreal, instead of going to Schwartz’s go across the street to “THE MAIN DELI , I guarantee you will never go to Schwartz’s again, The main Smoked Meat is the best in Montreal, bar none, I know, I have tried them all.
@ Eric
I would also ad to Richard Tremblay answer to your post that a bilingual francophone does not lose his right to be serviced, in his first language, any more than an Anglophone who is bilingual loses in right to be served in his firts language.
Your numbers are wrong or maybe outdated there are now about ten million Canadians who speak French.
@ stella
My talents are self evident. Again, it goes to one being credible in what one professes. I also stated, that you do not have to be educated, or experienced, or even half way intelligent, to know that when most people do not know that they are talking about, that they have the presence of mind to remain silent, for fear of making fools of themselves.
This is why researching is so important. One must research a “variety” of sources , see what the consensus states and form an INFORMED opinion, based on FACT.
That is all any of the people I agree with here, are saying.
When we state what we have researched, and present to you, pierre, and trembly, we are accused of being anti-french.
My best friend in life, who has since died, was Francois Montminy, not exactly an Irishman. So, there is no bias, here, only a supporting of the English language and culture, both in and out of quebec, to promote what a democracy ‘s very definition states, that the expressed will of the majority shall prevail.
This is the very nature and core of what a democratic society is.
Peter the Main’s smoked meat is not as good as Schwart’z unless Celine’s team changed how it’s made.
You can also get Schwartz’s style smoked meat at Smoked Meat Pete’s in the West Island, on the way back to Ontario 😉
@ everbody
Sorry about my 2:40 pm post I believed that highlander was saying that the courts of Canada sanctionned ethnophobia and not just reapeting what I had said about homophobia.
@highlander
You are the one who missed the point, again, when I said that you are not freedom fighters.
The point I was making was not that you condonned homophobia. It was that the right to speak up, for or against it, is a matter of freedom of speech.
The fact that you did not speak up for that right, in that specific matter proves, that you are not true freedom fithters.
@ pierre,
You again miss the point regarding PASTAGATE>
NO one , living in Canada, using and promoting one of Canada’s official languages,should be subjected to the discrimination of having to justify the use of that language.
In other words, it is not just pastagate, it is bill 101 .
This is an anti-Englih, anti-democratic and xenaphobic law, as proclaimed by THE UNITED NATIONS , pierre. This is the foremost authority on discriminatory law in the world
It ( bill 101 ) is demeaning, racist and insulting to all that are English in Canada. Imagine , just for a second, if you owned a store in say,in Toronto. Your clients are mostly say, french. So, naturally you advertise in french, that is logical. You may even , and probably would, put up a french and English sign.
Along comes an Ontario government official and , under the threat of being fined, or worse, ORDERS YOU TO TAKE DOWN THE french SIGN, saying the English language is being threatened, therefore french has to go. If this happened to you, “I” would stand up for you, and demand this law to be gone, because, IT INFRINGES ON YOUR BASIC RIGHT TO FREEDOM OF COMMUNICATION IN THE LANGUAGE OF YOUR CHOICE.
AS well, pierre, bill 101 DOES RESTRICT ENGLISH EDUCATION IN quebec. Read it. Do not interrupt it and the other clauses of bill 101 as protecting anything. It hasn’t nor is it,or ever was, a necessary law.
pierre, THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION for this law. If there is, as you say PROVE IT. You quote stats that the french population is going down, so what, many others are going down as well, and how is that the FAULT of the English ?
How is smothering another language going to PROTECT your language ? It simply does NOT MAKE ANY SENSE, and it have THE OPPOSITE EFFECT< it will cause division, resentment and hatred against the french. In fact it already has. many anglos, that never, hated or resented the french , now have good reason to.
Look at the facts. despite what the federal government tries to say, quebec is further away today from the rest of Canada, that at anytime in their history. Yet, quebec. has bill 101, has french only policies, has the federal government catering to the french at all levels. Why do you think this is, pierre ?
it is because, English quebeckers, and English Canadians are fed up being abused and paying for failed policies that are not needed.
They also, are really fed up, listening to quebec whine and moan that everything under the sun is Canada's and by extension the English people's fault.
That is why, there is an increasing movement to get quebec out.
If the french find Canada so bad, and the English people's" real policies" of a non bilingual Canada are not to your liking, then , please separate. You and the rest of the quebec nationalists can have all, of what you want in your very own country.
This I believe, should then make you very, very, happy. But as it stands now The English are very, very unhappy, and regardless of what Ottawa says, we are THE MAJORITY HERE, weather you like it or not.
When Canadians realize that bilingualism MEANS french ONLY ,and it does, then those stats that you quote will go right out the window, and you know it.
So, pierre, look at it from the English people's point of view, put yourself in their shoes, and just may UNDERSTAND how they fell and why. You can still disagree, but try to UNDERSTAND.
I just love being told my numbers are wrong or outdated. The 2011 Census is the most recent. http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2011/dp-pd/hlt-fst/lang/Pages/highlight.cfm?TabID=1&Lang=E&Asc=1&PRCode=01&OrderBy=999&View=1&Age=1&tableID=402&queryID=1
And that is another example of needing a discussion that leads to clear definitions we all can use to compare oranges with oranges.
I don’t have an issue with a Francophone going to no neck anywhere and asking for a federal service. But there should be nothing wrong with getting that service by modern means or technology other than having a bilingual person everywhere waiting for you.
Pierre and Richard tremblay, this “right” to service asked for by perfectly bilingual trouble makers is tearing the country and shaping people’s views more than you may think.
@ admin,
With all due respect, I was born and raised in Montreal, and the Main is second to none, have a medium fat smoked meat, with fries, pickle and a slaw.
I believe Dunn’s also has a store in ottawa. But that is not my favorite.
Snowdon Deli, also great.
In any event, to each his own.
Peter, come on are you serious ? The english language is in no way threatened or in need of a protectionist law. at 78 % majority, you guys don’t need a law 101 for ontario. If you put up a sign in Québec and french is predominant, it will not be taken down. PERIOD. YOu guys just go from word of mouth or from biased media like CFRA or the ottawa sun.
Stella instead of “wondering about my comments” let us look at our options here and see what we can come up with.
Core French – you say what is the purpose? I say I agree. If French language is mandatory in the English Schools across the province for five straight years and yet when one graduates, let’s say as a lab technician, from at the very least five years of French language instruction and cannot say to the patient “I am here to draw some blood”, then I would say that system failed her.
Immersion French – You say that is the answer. I say way too Immersion students are those being denied jobs because they cannot pass the test, again I would say that system failed them. Way too many of them enroll in French Immersion in Kindergarten but opt out in high school and will never receive a bilingual certificate when they graduate; I would say that system failed them. Way too many of them are being taught French by teachers of French who like I mention before, are not qualified to teach French in Ottawa but are qualified to teach French out West.???? This is a failing system.
You say your French friend had to rewrite the test three times in order to teach in the French language Schools. I say this is the only answer for the English to learn French fluently and yet who is entitled to French-language education in Ontario? (“Rights holders”).
It’s pretty black and white to me. We have the options of being educated in Ontario in each our mother tongue and I say let’s be thankful for that and move on. Que sera sera..
@ pierre, stella , trembly
The solution:
It is obvious to everyone who posts here on a regular basis
that there are, for the most part, two groups that are polar opposites apart on issues regarding forced bilingualism and quebec.
For Cory, Edudyorlik , Highlander, Eric, Rosie David and myself, out position , generally is that we are against forced bilingualism, against quebec’s language laws and anti-English policies.
On the other side of the coin, we have pierre, stella, trembly, . They take the position that all is fair and just in quebec, as it applies to bill 101, and the sign and educational laws that currently exist. many on their side believe that bill 101 should be strengthened .They also believe that Canada should have a policy of bilingualism, regardless of cost or need.
So, the “solution”. I do not believe for a milo second that any of us will change out points of view. We are probably reflective of how millions of Canadians view, to a greater or lessor extent these divisive issues. We reflect the demography of Canada.
These issues have been present since before confederation. They have pulled down our country and the English and french as well.
I truly believe, it is in the very best interests of ALL CONCERNED to have quebec go its separate way.
quebec, can then put to rest FOREVER that their language will be threatened by Canada or Canadians . They ( quebec) can then legislate, any law they want. They can create their own economy, and have all of what they feel is rightfully due to them.
They would have a country made up,of 7-8 million people . aspiring to whatever they believe is their destiny.
The remaining nine Canadian provinces, can finally cut the albatross of bilingualism from around its neck. Canada, , being an English country that is rooted in its mother, Great Britain can aspire to a destiny, that does not include laws favoring one language over another. We will be free of these divisive and constant issues that have torn this nation apart.
Have a 10 year moratorium on separation, so borders, taxation, currency, and international trade agreements can be ironed out, as well any other common issues, that may be pertinent.
At the end of this cooling out period,we go our separate ways.
This break will be hopefully, peaceful, without bloodshed and amicable. I feel, ultimately there is NO OTHER SOLUTION,
certainly we have talked this to DEATH and then some.
If we talk anymore, it will only become, as the past has shown, only MORE DIVISIVE and more resentment will be cemented into our cultures, and this path, could very lead to a civil war.
@ trembly,
The same goes for the french language. It is in no way threatened or in need of any protection.
Where, again , I ask , is this so-called threat coming from ?
your language , “before the advent of bill 101, before the advent of the current language policies in quebec, NEVER, EVER DISAPPEARED”. The french language, has never, ever, been in danger, not even , remotely, from being on par with the native languages, and they HAVE NOT DISAPPEARED EITHER.
So, what is hell are you talking about? its pure unmitigated nonsense. Who are trying to sell this to ? Read and look at the FACTS, there is nothing ANYWHERE TO SUPPORT YOUR CLAIMS
This is in reference to your reaction to my post:
Now you know how WE FEEL. How do you like it?
This is the very same reaction that the English have to a law ( bill 101) that is NOT NEEDED.
And you made my point for me, WHY SHOULD ANY SIGN IN ANY LANGUAGE BE EVER TAKEN DOWN OR BE PROMINENT.
IF WE ARE ALL EQUAL THEN PROMINENCE IS MOOT AND EQUALITY SHOULD TRUMP ALL ELSE, OR THERE IS NO EQUALITY.
WHEN FRENCH IS PROMINENT, IT INSULTS PEOPLE OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE . WE ARE MADE TO FEEL THAT WE ARE SECOND CLASS CITIZENS IN OUR OWN COUNTRY
I believe, that this is done on purpose, to demean, and try to make the ENGLISH of quebec feel inferior to the french.
I also believe, it has a negative psychological impact on the English. Again, I believe this is done purposely so power and control is easier to apply and harder for the English to demand what is rightfully theirs, equality ACROSS THE BOARD.
trembly, you, pierre, stella and others of your ilk, have not got a leg to stand on. None of you, have ever, even come remotely close to backing up anything you claim. For each and every issue you raise, you have been shot down. A prime example, please tell me the name of any business on Hull’s main street that displays an external English sign , all I get is a miniscule sign on a casino entrance, and this is your answer .
I was born at night, but not last night
@everyone.
To show just how hypocritical this really is, and also to show how ANYTHING that comes from “over there” should be given ZERO VALUE.
Pierre…
YOUR OWN quite forceful words “reminding” Eric On April 1, 2013 at 12:08. These words were meant to bolster your side of the debate about why Air Canada
— SHOULD HAVE — BILINGUAL staff in the first place …
Pierre wrote, “@ Eric Let me remind you that Air Canada is a Federal institution”
To which I reply on April 1, 2013 at 12:53 pm
with —
@ Pierre.
WRONG again Pierre. Air Canada is NO LONGER a federal institution. It is a private company that agreed (for reasons that are in line with the same stupid forced bilingualism policy in this country) to follow the federal mandate that it remain a bilingual entity even though it is now a private company.
— to which you have the nerve to call ME a “dumb dumb”
(BTW admin, I realize you would have deleted the message with this derogatory comment had you caught this personal attack and transgression but, I am aware that you are busy and must have simply missed this direct and MUCH MORE personal insult than those by peter referring to folks as “the fraud squad)
— while saying, Pierre wrote,
“It’s a detail that I omitted to elaborate on because it’s irrelevant in answering Eric’s post… And because, I’m not a hair splitter.”
First of all Pierre. IT IS NOT an irrelevant detail. It’s the whole crux of why you would even be able to harp at Eric the way you did.
Why, you might ask in that oh so thick self absorbed sense of self you convey?
Well, I will explain Pierre. The reason why, whether Air Canada is a federal institution or a private company, is pivotal to this WHOLE debate is because …
If they are a private company they DO NOT (I repeat DO NOT) have to provide bilingual service OR (wait for it…) ANY SERVICE IN French at all for that matter (not yet anyways). Where as federal institutions (the only institutions for the moment) are forced to provide bilingual service.
Therefore when Air Canada was sold it normally would NO LONGER have to provide bilingual service but since the French are such whiners and since there are powers entrenched within MY Canada government system that are looking out for the well being of the French, we ended up with a private company that made a deal that it would retain the concept that it would allow itself to be forced (like other federal institutions) to provide the whiners with bilingual service.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3WklXXgADw&hd=1
And since Pierre professes that he doesn’t watch my video’s.
It’ll be great as he will not know what we all have seen…
Yes, as for my video’s Pierre. It was YOU on March 29, 2013 at 8:42 pm that directed that awful claim AT ME saying… Pierre wrote, “@ edudyorlik, “So keep on having fun making those hate videos”
It would seem to me that if your intent is to vilify someone and make – false – claims of this nature you would, at the very least have the courtesy to take a moment to actually watch those very video’s. Don’t you think ?
Of course, if you — HAD — WATCHED THEM then it would be VERY CLEAR TO YOU that the ONLY — HATE — in them Pierre is from your side of this issue.
And thus, as usual, you would have no argument at all and hence NOTHING valid to say.
Oh and just as a footnote , I find it funny that you SAY you don’t look at the video’s yet, you know to mention the theme of Pasta gate for one of them. LOL LoL nice try… People see right through you Pierre. Just like a plate glass window.
Pierre also wrote,
“Your incapacity or unwillingness to admit that pastagate (and other such occurrences) was/were a mistake”
Oh, Not so Pierre. I DO readily admit they were mistakes Pierre. Yup, mistakes indeed. Mistakes made by those on your side of this. Mistakes that cost the French quite dearly on the world stage. Proving to the WHOLE WORLD yet again just how intolerant and racist those folks in that province really are.
Yes, A shameful and totally embarrassing black eye for the French, for Quebec and also for ALL OF this great country CANADA. SHAME, SHAME…
Pierre
April 1, 2013 at 2:21 pm
“@ edudyorlik
I know that you dumb dumb. Everybody who reads newspapers knows it.”
-Insults again eh Pierre
“I don’t look at your videos. I know what they are.”
-So now your a psychic there PIERRE ,you dont have to look at the video’s to know what’s in them?
-All this tells me is your a close minded individual ,when the Rights haters such as yourself post your data (which is rarely )we do look at the data and this is important as we can see where you base your argument its called being open minded!
“Your incapacity or unwillingness to admit that pastagate (and other such occurances) was/were a mistakes proof of your hate for the Francophone and of their language.”
-This is not a one time issue with pastagate there are numerous occurrences as you even said yourself ,but its the oppressive legislation that has allowed for this to occur.
“But, keep it up. You’re making fools of yourselves and you sure are not growing your numbers… As far as I can see, your number may be down to four… If I don’t count Rosie and Eric because, there may be hope for them.”
-Yes as as far as you can see Pierre(THAT’S THE KEY HERE) -but at last many do not post but read and as they follow, it becomes clear to them the reality of your belief in rights to oppress other cultures “to protect french language” Oppression is never exceptable no matter the terms.
Pierre
April 1, 2013 at 3:21 pm
The point I was making was not that you condonned homophobia. It was that the right to speak up, for or against it, is a matter of freedom of speech.
The fact that you did not speak up for that right, in that specific matter proves, that you are not true freedom fithters.
WE ARE NOT FREEDOM FIGHTERS BUT RIGHTS FIGHTERS ,EVERYONE HAS A RIGHT TO FREEDOM OF SPEECH EVEN YOU WITH YOUR HATE PROPAGANDA .
WE MAY NOT AGREE WITH SOMEONES VIEWPOINT IN SPEECH BUT IT REMAINS THEIR RIGHT TO FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION.
YOU HAVE LIVED IN QUEBEC TOO LONG YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT RIGHTS ARE ANYMORE!
Richard tremblay
April 1, 2013 at 3:43 pm
“Peter, come on are you serious ? The english language is in no way threatened or in need of a protectionist law. at 78 % majority, you guys don’t need a law 101 for ontario.”
Nor is the French language threatened or need to protect it -are you an endangered species ?
If really it was about protecting threatened language what of those native languages about to go extinct?
Pierre ,Richard and Stella is the French language more important and need protection more then the native languages?
So do not the native languages warrant the same protection and funding as the French language?
The United Nation’s have stated that North America’s indigenous people’s languages are at near critical levels of extinction.
Has the United Nations stated the same for the French language …NO..So tell me why not protect the Native languages and fund them to the same extent as the French language as the united Nations have indicated the near extinction.
So Richard Pierre and Stella is French more important to protect then the native languages even given these facts?
Please be respectful of our natives and answer this question?
peter
April 1, 2013 at 4:52 pm
“They would have a country made up,of 7-8 million people . aspiring to whatever they believe is their destiny.”
I guarantee that at least 2 million will flee Quebec and become refugee’s and many will be the highly educated .
Don’t forget the indigenous peoples they will not stay in Quebec to be assimilated .They will take Rupports land with them after which Quebec will be the area it had been before the constitution a 100 mile by 600 mile stretch on the north St Lawrence,lets see them put the population on that small chunk of land.
“This break will be hopefully, peaceful, without bloodshed and amicable. I feel, ultimately there is NO OTHER SOLUTION,”
Sadly Peter I think the inevitable violence may prevail ,as Quebec wants their cake and eat it too ,but the violence will start way before in fact I only see this as getting worse and yet the Feds do nothing and they will be for fault of this.
peter wrote:
WHEN FRENCH IS PROMINENT, IT INSULTS PEOPLE OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE . WE ARE MADE TO FEEL THAT WE ARE SECOND CLASS CITIZENS IN OUR OWN COUNTRY
-good point may I add that it gives the french a feeling of superiority .
@ highlander,
I’ll bet pierre, stella and trembly, haven’t a clue as to the treaty that you alluded to. This was Ungava, in 1912, when this land was given to quebec, it was conditional, on them staying in Canada.
I do believe you are right on the money regarding refugees and their plight out of an independent quebec. , other than the nationalists ; who in their right minds would want to live there ?
the nationalists will, as you stated will have a hella of a time with natives . They ( native Indians ) have gone on record as saying they want to be in Canada. I wonder if marois , or any of the other separatists have given any “thought ” at all to any of these issues.
As well, if quebec doesn’t force the issue of separation, then , sooner or later, Canada will. perhaps not in our lifetime, but presently, Canadians are at their wits end now,what will they be like 10-20 years down the road ?
Hey Stella, Pierre, Richard:
Why is it so upsetting to you to see us shed light on these racist and ethnocentric behaviours from Quebec.
We give examples of stories that are covered both through the Canadian and international media. From paramedics to penis rings, Quebec is rampant with this anti-French everything and anything; most often the English language.
And yet, when we highlight these things; it is you guys who point us out as being the racists. What about those people perpetrating the acts themselves? It seems to me you guys are attempting to paint us as being the racists; when we’re nothing more than the messengers. And when it happens in our own backyard (such as the issue of forced bilingual signage in Russel Township) once again we are labelled racists just because we believe in the Freedom of Choice and would rather see private business owners advertise in the language of their choice rather than what a government entity tells them to.
You guys think that Russel is doing the right thing? Well, let’s just look at what language laws have done in Quebec? Tell me with a straight face it’s a good thing for all other languages outside of the French language to have these language laws.
It seems to me that your types are much like the Teflon Don – you guys cannot be touched. From government grants and transfer payments to language laws that favour one ethnicity to preference in government hiring and favoured status within what should be clear cut court cases; you guys seem to get the lion’s share in regards to Canadian wealth; and then some. And then, to make matters absolutely worse, we have governments at all levels using taxpayers money to engage and support all of this crap.
All of this almost always ends with us getting frustrated to the point where we engage in personal insults. Yes, most often it is us who throws the first punch out of the frustration that you guys cannot even acknowledge countless cases of ethnocentrism and racism both inside Quebec and within Eastern Ontario. Things (cases) we research and provide direct examples of; often times with more than one cited example.
The only time you guys get brownie points is whenever admin. slaps one of our wrists for engaging in a direct personal insult. Is this not telling in your argumentative approach? That, you feel vindicated when we’re chastised by admin. when we get so angry because you cannot see logic?
It’s akin to the child smiling across from his/her peer whenever the daycare worker punishes the wrong party because they didn’t see who perpetrated the guilty act to begin with.
We see this with Stella’s smiles though, don’t we? There’s one but example of what I’m talking about, here.
By the way, why is it that Edudyorlik’s videos are so so troubling to you guys?
All he is doing is collecting footage compiled by news agencies within Canada for the most part citing examples of Francophone hatred towards non-Francophones both within and without Quebec.
Once again, if you don’t like the videos Edudeyorlik compiles you have one of two options as I see it:
Either;
A) Don’t watch the videos
or
B) Write to the producers of the networks themselves complaining that you don’t agree with their news coverage of the events in Quebec and Eastern Ontario. They may reply though in part that we still live in at least a semi-democratic country and that Freedom of Press still exists for the most part – well, outside of the CBC anyways.
peter
April 2, 2013 at 12:05 am
10-20 years down the road- well Quebec will be a quagmire with them being at financial dire now(same debt load as Greece)and no resolution to this in sight.
Forget the ever increasing loss of population as there becomes a mass exodus due to the increasing tensions and economic depravity.
Quebec’s power and influence has been waning within the country Since the late 90’s.
They have sealed their own fate with low economic output ,high Social Services Costs and low population growth all of this of course mirrors Greece and its financial mess.
High social services are becoming an increasing burden in Quebec society ,yet with the people in the streets protesting as they do in Greece it will create political paralysis . Your provinces leaders are not willing to take those tough choices as fear of being voted out rather then addressing their coming economic storm.
Now wait till Quebec realizes that it cant rely on the welfare it receives called transfer payments ,because that will no doubt get reduced ,for in the present situation Canada cannot afford Ontario being a have not province.
Indigenous languages in Canada are becoming extinct, period.
There are millions in Quebec who speak French along with financial support from all levels of government, period.
The French language is in no way, shape or form in danger of disappearing in Canada.
So why is it that the French language is financially supported to the tune of billions per year whenever most indigenous languages in Canada are near extinct according to the UN?
This is the whole point of all of this. It’s not about protecting the French language but about all things being socially engineered. French first, french only this that and the other thing.
This is no longer about providing French services where numbers warrant. This has morphed into a social engineering project designed to create French assimilation throughout Canada. Why does British Columbia warrant bilingual government (French, English) hirings for an almost non-existent French population there?