We’ve all wanted to go postal (all pun intended) at some time or another. The type of day where you regret even leaving your front door to face the day. The sort of day where you know that whatever you do, you just cannot make any headway nor win your cause in the least bit. We’ve all had those kinds of days whereby, ’ The Shirelles’ invented the song, “Mama Said” to describe them.
And so it was a normal, cool, crisp and sunny Northern Ontario morning last April whenever I left the house to mail a letter at the Post Office. I had not much to do that day; and figured I would take complete advantage of the time I had to run a few errands. My first step was the Post Office.
There was no lineup when I arrived and felt blessed that my luck was so far, so good. I was wrong though. As I approached the mid-age woman working behind the desk I greeted her and wished her a good morning and requested to purchase a stamp in the language of my choice, which happens to be English. She obliged by producing the stamp and not returning the greeting in English nor French. The remainder of our exchange during the few minutes had me requesting my service in English whereby her portion of the exchange was conducted in French.
Now, normally this situation wouldn’t be a problem for me as everyone knows I’m bilingual. But on this particular day, I couldn’t get over the fact that I showed absolutely no inclination at all as to being bilingual. Why wasn’t I served in English when clearly I greeted the worker in English upon the beginning of our exchange? Further, why didn’t the Postal Worker switch to English whenever I was communicating in said language? I could have switched to French but I decided not to. My idea in this decision had to do with the fact that I felt that the worker was obligated to provide me with the service in English simply because I was the customer. This would have been different if at any time she had informed me that she couldn’t speak English and would try to accommodate me by other means. One such solution she could have sought out would be to perhaps seek out the services of another Postal Worker to serve me if she didn’t speak English herself.
In any case, I didn’t complain. That is, I didn’t file a complaint at the Post Office. As an aside, I have come across instances like this a few dozen times during the course of business transactions with civil service workers throughout the years and even some in the private industry. And, after all was said and done, I never complained. I had simply grown accustomed to situations like the one above and there is an argument to be made that I had become somewhat conditioned by these scenarios over the years.
Until now…
Perhaps it’s my newfound sense of fairness and pride that has awakened within me during these past two years. Perhaps now that I’m a little longer in the tooth, I have decided that I no longer will take things lying down as it were.
I’m tired…
It’s one thing to learn a minority language and to enjoy the privileges of being able to read, write and speak in French. But for what purpose and intent? And to who’s benefit is it that I am bilingual? Myself or to those whom I communicate with who have French as a first language? I can honestly state that being bilingual hasn’t furthered my career options nor has it had the desired effect of garnishing career advancement opportunities for me in the job that I do have. Moreover, I get the feeling that being bilingual for many of us Anglophones simply equates to making it easier for the Francophones to not have to learn English in order to communicate with us – such as in daily merchant transactions.
Enough…
It was with all of these thoughts swirling within my consciousness that April day that I made the conscientious decision to file a complaint with Canada’s, ‘Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages’. Before doing so, however, I ensured that I had a valid complaint to begin with and checked out the ‘Filing a Complaint’ section, sub-section, ‘In what situations can I file a complaint’. After reviewing the information, I determined that I did in fact have a valid complaint and filed an online complaint the day of my Post Office visit and an initial response was forthcoming from a representative within a week of filing the complaint.
The representative advised me that in order to solve the dilemma of what had occurred an investigation would take place as to the incident itself. Having said that, keep in mind that my complaint was well documented and filed only after a few hours of the incident taking place. Everything that happened was written succinctly on the initial report!
So, after e-mail and playing telephone tag to which more than a half dozen e-mails and a half dozen telephone calls were sent between myself and the representative detailing what had occurred; I emphasized and re-emphasized that I wanted only one question answered – and that was the following:
Why, was I spoken to in French whenever I clearly communicated in English?
All of this to say that as month 3 was coming around the corner subsequent to the initial incident; I was informed that the investigation was completed and that the results would soon be forthcoming. I have a few questions as to this entire affair after having gone through this experience. One being why haven’t I been provided with a response yet after 3 months? Certainly this is a cut and paste situation?
Why?
Exactly what justifies the creation of an, “Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages” to begin with. As of 2011, there were 518 complaints that the office dealt with having to do with language issues. On October 16, 2012 a Globe and Mail article reported that,
“Almost half of the 518 complaints came from the area around Ottawa and adjacent Gatineau, Que., …” (http://www.theglobeandmail.
Are Canadian taxpayers being led to believe that 518 language-related complaints warrant a full-time staff being paid civil service wages to investigate this? I cannot help but comment that more work is done during an 8 hour shift by a half dozen or less call centre employees who themselves individually handle on average a little more than 100 calls a day. It seems as though by comparing stats, we’re not exactly getting a great bang for our buck. So, I would argue that what we have here is but another example of government incompetence; a type and kind of federal government language police make-work project that our taxes are paying for.
And I’ll say this much. We already have a set of language police in this country. We don’t require the services of another; let alone the foundational Office quebecois de la langue francaise.
Ask yourselves this much: Will it take over 3 months to solve your next computer or cell phone issue by someone making minimum wage? Probably not. So why would something so trivial take so long to conclude by someone being paid so much?
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Highlander and others Canada is not just for French and English and I can tell you first hand that many foreigners who live here in Canada are also Canadians and have rights and many own businesses and employ Canadians, etc. Did you know that the mall of Billings Bridge is owned by Mexicans? Yes it is owned by Mexicans. It was the foreigners who made Ottawa what it is today and wherever you go in this city as well as Toronto, Montréal and beyond a lot of businesses are foreign owned and operated and most of them love Canada and don’t take sides.
Only in Cornwall you say? Believe me when I say that Cornwall went down hill something awful. Cornwall used to be bustling with activity back in the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s and it died because the people themselves did not want to get ahead and held many prejudices. Get your heads out of the sand and stop this racism. This is exactly what is killing Cornwall. Montréal is a cosmopolitan city and is bustling with activity and businesses. Get yourselves away from Cornwall and go elsewhere and see how other people live.
Jamie you were born and raised in a very beautiful province and you should be proud of that. The only downfall about Montréal is the Mafia and it is a foreign Mafia and not a Canadian one. Be proud of your heritage of all sides and don’t run down the French. The French come in all classes and you cannot judge on a few people alone. Europe is not like Canada and you have certain neighborhoods “quartiers” where you cannot live because of your social and monetary class and they go way back with whom you belong to whereas in Canada you are the same.
Jules, do you really believe this? “Not many people are just uniligual English anymore and I have seen many who are not only bilingual but even trilingual.”
Ontario English mother tongue – 8,677,045 people
Ontario Eng / Fr mother tongue -46,605
Ontario Able to speak Eng & Fr -1,395,805
Ontario Workers use of English – 97%
Jamie you have Jewish heritage and you should have some sympathy for the French people for what they have been through. In past years a French person could never have a good job and were always put down. Today the French are getting ahead in life.
Jamie I had Jewish friends in Cornwall and they were some of the best people going and I mean that and miss them very much. Many have gone to Toronto and Montréal to live. Nyman’s was a store that I went for my shoes since I was a baby and I miss Debbie, Brenda and the parents. I knew Carla Fisher whose father worked at CJSS on the radio and the son who is a journalist in Toronto. My home ec teacher at St. Lawrence was Jewish Mrs. Goldhammer who was a Miller before she got married. My husband who is a Lebanese Christian Maronite purchased shoes from the Nymans and met them personally and my mother in law purchased things from Jews in Beirut and never problems. Be proud of your Jewish heritage but never put down the French – they are some of the best people. Think about what the Jewish people went through during WWII and you will find compassion for others Jamie. I like you Jamie and never said otherwise but putting down other cultures is wrong.
Jules this has nothing to do with religion or language even. This is all about how governments are hammering the public. There’s a huge difference between making sure that if someone wants French service to the point where you can’t get a job or promotion unless you speak French at high levels.
Sadly certain politicians and groups use language as a divisive tool to push their mandate. And even more sadly the hardliners on both sides scare away a lot of good people.
We should have a National dialog about what we want to do as a country about language and how to accommodate. It really doesn’t make sense to support any group where numbers don’t validate the costs.
We are as you point out entering hard times again and every tax dollar should be used as wisely as possible.
Jules as weird is this may sound I faintly can feel what my European relatives must’ve felt about the cities they lived in but left to to extreme positions of many there that made it difficult for them to lead full lives.
I can tell you that politics and governments pandering to Separatists have made it difficult for many people including Francophones in Quebec and in particular Montreal.
Not impossible, but difficult enough that whole generations left. Industries left. And that’s very very sad.
I remember my elementary school days in a French school in Cornwall and we celebrated St. Jean Baptiste Day and we wore the red, white and blue sash on out waists and sang songs “nous fêtons la semaine française main dans la main” and I was not of “pure laine” and I loved it. We didn’t learn any English until Grade 3. I walked my parents floors to all hours of the night and early morning learning the French language and today it paid off. I have never in my entire life had a bad bone about French people. My children who are adults now have friends of all nationalities and races and they all get along well. My son loves Lebanese food and besides eating it at home he buys it as well. My daughter is the same way and had many supervisors of different races and languages and a Chinese lady in the end who could hardly speak English and was mighty intelligent and stunk up the kitchen at work with her Chinese food (the real cuisine) LOL LOL.
People have to learn how to get along with one another and Québec is not a welfare state and in fact they pay mighty high taxes and get very little back in return. Québec pays one of the highest gas taxes in the country.
We are very fortunate to live in Canada and you go elsewhere and you would literally kiss the ground to be back home and that includes Québec. Canada has always been a mighty respected country throughout the entire world and if you only saw the video that I have of my husband’s nephew proudly displaying Ontario’s drivers licence in the video to show how the world loves and respects Canada. People in the background said the same thing. You all should get on your knees and thank the Good Lord that you live here and many people are knocking down the doors trying to get in while Canadians do not appreciate what they have.
Yes Eric I sure do believe that indeed. Come to Ottawa and you will hear many languages spoken and many races of people. There is a lady that works in a store across from us and she is of Italian and Polish descent and married to a Christian Lebanese. That lady speaks fluent Italian and Polish and speaks Lebanese as well. My daughter worked with her. There are others who speak Italian, Croatian and languages of India and others besides English and French. I have heard some young men at that store speak Russian as well.
At the Bank of Nova Scotia where we go there are at least ten languages spoken besides English and French along with other banks. I do not tell you any strange tales Eric and others – this is all true.
I believe that I said that Canada is not the very same country that I grew up in and that is true. Many many nationalities are here in Canada nowadays and it is a melting pot of cultures and languages that you would hardly even recognize it. My area of town used to comprise of Canadians and Jews with a certain amount of Lebanese mostly Christian. Now the area looks more like a combination of the Middle East and Africa. The Jews are in hiding and we used to see them around but it is like they are afraid to come out because they are surrounded. The Jews are always so polite and clean and it is the complete opposite with some of the others. We have Jewish neighbors down the hall and on the 3rd floor and this morning like usual we always greet one another with hello and sometimes talk. Not one bad bone in any of our bodies. The building is full of Arabs as well as Canadians and others. Everyone gets along and that is the way to live.
@ Eric. Nope. I only post as Furtz on the Freeholder. I don’t load up the comments. I have no idea who’s behind all the variants of Stella or Newton etc.
I arrived on the shores of Montreal as a 6 year old. My mother and I endured rough seas in the fall of 1955.
My father had arrived in the spring of that year and upheld his obligation to contribute to this country.
To live up to our obligations to Canada in the fifties we were told that these 3 things would ensure a prosperous and happy life:
1. Obey the laws of the land.
2. Work hard.
3. Learn English.
We are the people that Jules was talking about in a previous post.
We ran businesses and employed people for decades.
We felt honoured to contribute to a country that allowed us endless opportunity to be successful.
We assimilated into this country and now those that refuse to do so are happy that my fathers grandchildren work at the other end of our nation in large part due to language apartheid.
Go ahead now Stella and tell me how grateful I should be for being here.
Jules, I work in an industry that is a united nations of sort with many world languages, higher education and common goals are daily occurences. The language of business and our commonality is English, people are promoted for merit and a positive company attitude. We do not see bilingual impertive etc. because private industry thrives on getting the job done by the best who can perform the roles. Yes some are Francophone, and yes some are a host of many different languages.
We all just need the government to get out of the language business for politics and votes. After 40 plus years, the experiment has not worked.
Jurgen when moving to this great country, they omitted telling you that this country has two official languages, French and English and that it would be wise to learn both.
Jurgen, compared to many other places, we should be content and count ourselves very fortunate to be living here. A democratic country that accepts all cultures and most importantly a peace loving one.
I am sure you have no regrets.
admin
July 8, 2013 at 3:58 pm
“Jules this has nothing to do with religion or language even. This is all about how governments are hammering the public. There’s a huge difference between making sure that if someone wants French service to the point where you can’t get a job or promotion unless you speak French at high levels.”
Very well said Jamie !
The division is created by the politics of language .
Politicians and interest groups have pushed for certain conditions and has resulted in 65% of the government being bilingual(French) to serve 17% of the population.
Because hiring within government is near 400% above the actual needs to provide that service it discriminates against the majority.
But as governments are the biggest abuser of language discrimination,this could very well explain why language in our country cannot be used as a discriminatory measure via the Charter.
To resolve this issue :
Language laws are oppressive ,But if a government must implement them then let it be Fair ,Equitable and measurable :
Representation by population with regards to official languages would be fair to both parties and measurable through stats Canada.
The government and language laws should not be responsible and make all Canadians accountable because a culture is unable maintain its population and pass down their language to their future generations.
Gaelic at one time used to be one of the more used languages(it was spoken as much in parliament as English) -should the English be blamed for assimilation as French extremists accuse them?
Absolutely not ,it is up to the family to pass down cultures and language and not the state to enforce through assimilation on ALL other cultures.
Yes,yes representation by population is a truly fair approach to this language Quagmire ,but is the Government and interest groups really concerned on what’s fair?
@Cory Cameron July 7, 2013 at 9:37 pm
Hungry for the Truth:
What strikes me as puzzling, is your ability to stand on the principle of Democracy to elaborate your mistreatment and the deprivation of your Rights. At the same time never showing an incline of desire to respectfully grant to although a minority of approximately 13,000,000 French-speaking Canadians the same Constitutional Right that you afford yourself as a victim of discrimination.
“But what Constitutional Right would you be referring to that I never show an incline to respect?”
First allow me to clarify your question. I did not say that you are inclined to not respect a Constitutional Right.
My statement adrdesses what I believe to be an oxymoron. In order for you to cry foul you have to invoke your Constitutional Right. Your claim of discrimination and what you perceive to be an invrigement on your Right, to be served in English is
equated to the protection from a law or a rule.?
If you are claiming infrigement and discrimination you’ll agree that it resides in The Languages Act. To further make myself clear please allow to include an exerpt of this Constitutional Law.
Official Bilingualisim
Language policy of the Federal government
Which establishes that:The principles of bilingualism in Canada are protected in sections16 to 23 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms of 1982
-French and English are equal to each other as federal official languages;
-Debate in Parliament may take place in either official language;
-Federal laws shall be printed in both official languages, with equal authority;
-Anyone may deal with any court established by Parliament, in either official language;
-Everyone has the right to receive services from the federal government in his or her choice of official language.
And I take it that you are specifically invoking,
“Everyone has the right to receive services from federal government, in his or her choice of official language.”?
When I stated, “At the same time never showing an incline of desire to respectfully grant to although a minority of approximately 13,000,000 French-speaking Canadians the same Constitutional Right that you afford yourself as a victim of discrimination.” As a Canadian Citizen, clearly you seek the protection that this Law affords you?And it’s a law that is equal to French-speaking and English-speaking Canadians .But when a French-speaking Canadian invoks it’s protection you call it,
July 7, 2013 at 9:18 pm
Edudyorlik:
“Only to be slapped in the face with Anti English laws and French domination wherever they gain a foothold.”
“Newsflash ethnocentrism out there. Don’t get upset when we call out bad government policies. You have to stop shooting the messengers here.”
But yet, The Languages Act is the Law for all Canadians. If there is any shooting going on here, it’s a well orchestrated and valiant attempt by the Grand Standing English Majority at shooting down EQUAL RIGHTS.
In the absence of Equal Fairness in a majority of comments posted here, I’m all the more convinced to question the motives of a few disdained individuals. I believe they’ve convinced themselves that the French should be faulted for their inabilities to get what they believe is rightfully theirs.
The efforts of laying blame in my opinion is seldom seen as a constructive exercise.
Hungry for the Truth…. July 9, 2013 at 11:14 am
” At the same time never showing an incline of desire to respectfully grant to although a minority of approximately 13,000,000 French-speaking Canadians the same Constitutional Right that you afford yourself as a victim of discrimination. ”
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-_FYWN22JNrk/UXw5jflPBrI/AAAAAAAAAfg/o7xTbuvA5x8/w702-h365-no/Population+-+Language+stats+2011.png
Not so HUNGRY FOR THE TRUTH how about posting the proof?
12.3% of Canadians are French speaking not so hungry ,please do not insult the commenters here by posting blatantly false numbers.
” I believe they’ve convinced themselves that the French should be faulted for their inabilities to get what they believe is rightfully theirs.”
Yes like 65% of all gobs in the government,be it federally or provincialy a near 400% above the numbers they are in the community.
If this were the reverse situation they would be in the streets with riots demanding fairness but its their rights to be hired 400% more then the average citizen.
Fairness=representation by population ,that’s all we ask for ,fairness to the language situation.
@Cory Cameron
July 8, 2013 at 11:57 am
“ see what I mean, Jamie?
Assumptions?
Accusations?
It goes on and on to the point whereby one cannot even whisper a word of truth
before being drowned out by a tidal wave of lies and deceptions! “
Opinions are not lies nor are they deceptive in themselves.
It’s not lie just because it does not fit into a reader’s perception.
It may be informative and shared by other readers point of view.
If the intent and objective of posting is to Win rather that to inform and share, I can well understand why you see them as lies and deceptions. Its not because they do not fit into your views that people should be called LIERS. They are what they are “OPINIONS” That’s all.
And by the way Cory have you received official sponsorship for being, “THE ULTIMATE TRUTH”? Why are your words the TRUTH ? And do you, yourself not lay accusations against the French, and assumptions as you have in your posted opinions.? Some that I’ve read are pretty defamatory to the French-speaking Canadians in my view.!!!
Hungry for the Truth….
July 9, 2013 at 11:58 am
“Opinions are not lies nor are they deceptive in themselves.
It’s not lie just because it does not fit into a reader’s perception.
It may be informative and shared by other readers point of view.”
” At the same time never showing an incline of desire to respectfully grant to although a minority of approximately 13,000,000 French-speaking Canadians the same Constitutional Right that you afford yourself as a victim of discrimination. ”
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-_FYWN22JNrk/UXw5jflPBrI/AAAAAAAAAfg/o7xTbuvA5x8/w702-h365-no/Population+-+Language+stats+2011.png
So was your 13 million was an opinion ,not fact as evidenced by the chart indicated above.
“Its not because they do not fit into your views that people should be called LIERS. They are what they are “OPINIONS” That’s all.”
No because logic and reasoning is not utilized when the facts are provided as such in the graph above.
Distortion of the truth does not yearn for hungry for the truth,but it lye’s in fact of ones agenda.
Facts remain that ,and when proof is provided most often when unable to have a rebuttal to “The Facts” propaganda is utilized to promote an agenda .
Language Fairness = representation by population ;as most just democratic societies would encourage.
@highlander July 9, 2013 at 11:57 am
If it’s all the same to you dear sir or madam, I will not make this a
NUMBERS game. It’s real Humans not numbers.
I may have miscalculated when posting the Numbers, it was not as Ill intent to deceive. But, whether it’s 100 or 10.000.000,are they not entitled to the Services in the language of their choice? The same equal Right as yours?
French has been in this country for 146 years and have had to fight all their way into EQUALITY because of the Numbers game.
And if it’s OK with you I’ll relly on my HOME GROWN Stats from STATS CAN.And I know that their are more recent stats 2011. Many are debating it’s accuracy.
What I’ve failled to understand so far is the premise that
the french-speaking are taking jobs away from the English-speaking?
If I’ve understood your claim, are the JOBS that the English-
speaking are being deprived of are the ones to service the
French-speaking population?
That is the JOB? To serve the French-Speaking population?
The issue is no different than a Doctor that is specialized in noses and ears. Although he or she may very well be qualified in their respective field, an opening becomes available in the Gynecology Dept., does that make the Doctor a candidate?
Yes, but does it make him qualified. NO!
If the job is to serve the minimal amount of French-speaking clients as you would have me believe, well it would make sence to me that the majority of jobs are given to English-speaking candidates. SO where is the unfairness?
You either have the qualifacations for a Job or you don’t. It’s not about language it’s about qualifications and job requirements to render a service.
As you have made clear, not all Canadians speak Fench and I say not all Doctors are Gynecologist. But, all Doctors have the ability to increase his or her knowledge and study to meet the required QUALIFICATIONS for the Job.
Or they can lay blame and scream UNFAIRNESS.
Is the same not available all CANADIANS to further their education in order to advance.?
Need I remind you, that it’s not because they are French-speaking
that they are not an Equal member of this GREAT COUNTRY.
And can not be disposed of as we dispose of our garbage.
They should not be faulted for any one’s personal Qualifications,
or lack there of.
@ Hungry for the Truth…. Cory and his crew of Anglo freedom-fighters get bent out of shape at the sight of a French sign by the highway, or a fleur de lys seen on a church web site! They are determined to be in a state of angst and anger 24/7. It’s kind of sad, but if they choose to spend their lives with their shorts in knots, nothing you or I can say will change that.
In the meantime, summer has finally arrived! Let’s enjoy it.
Hungary for truth, yes whether 100 or 10,000,000, they should have service. The quickness may not be the same as English because there are not enough bilingual to staff all the jobs.
Touching on the 13 million number, Highlander has the right graphic for percentages, here are the actual numbers and it about 9 million who self assess can speak French.
French only speakers – 4,165,015 of which 4,047,175 are in Quebec.
Englsih & French bilingual – 5,795,575 of which 3,328,725 are in Quebec.
English only speakers 22,564,665 ( Canada total in 2011 33,121,175)
So, do the real number of English only speakers matter in this expensive experiment of providing “respect” for a language? I prefer to respect a person than a language.
Hungry for the Truth
Well said, you nailed it good. Second standing ovation!!!!!!
BTW highlander is a male, the fearless leader of the pack, the savior of the “freedom movement” the one who organized the BIG RALLY in Montreal and has BBQs to raise funds for his cause.
According to the pamphlets he is dishing out, he wants to wipe the French language off the face of the earth……just so you know what and who you are dealing with.
CCH hires 100% bilingual. This is not representative of the communities needs. There is quite a discrepancy whereby many English nurses lose out to nurses from Quebec; some of these folks have decades of experience and are losing out to new graduates because of language. This isn’t a fair picture whatsoever. There should be no language laws to begin with. By the way, am I blaming anyone for not having learned Gaelic or Mohawk? No, it’s my own fault for not having done so. There is a difference between providing services in the largest minority language and socially engineering the laws of a country to the point whereby English parents are blackmailed into sending their kids to receive an immersion or all French education with the hopes that they’re children will one day have a good job.
Hungry for the Truth….
July 9, 2013 at 1:49 pm
“If it’s all the same to you dear sir or madam, I will not make this a
NUMBERS game. It’s real Humans not numbers.”
Well not so hungry for the truth -just not excepting of it.
How would YOU propose that a government policy is implemented with a measurable outcome?
If your thinking in human terms 83% of the country remains not bilingual and are refused positions not on merit but language!
“If the job is to serve the minimal amount of French-speaking clients as you would have me believe, well it would make sence to me that the majority of jobs are given to English-speaking candidates. SO where is the unfairness?”
65% of all government Prov and Federal bilingual hires so that is considered “fair” to 8o% of the population that does not speak the second language?
“You either have the qualifications for a Job or you don’t. It’s not about language it’s about qualifications and job requirements to render a service.”
The majority of jobs are deemed bilingual was and that eliminated persons with merit and qualification so yes its elimination through language policies.
My apologies for the last posting….it was done so with haste on my I-Phone.
What I meant to say was that CCH hires only Bilingual nurses for all full-time nursing positions. This is a type of social engineering in and of itself; isn’t it? What does this say to new nursing grads? That in order to garner a full-time nursing job – you’d better be able to speak French! That those English nurses are encouraged to take the table scraps that are offered to them; once the full-timers have had their fill?
How long will it be before unilingual English or French nurses cannot work at all in their own communities.
Thanks ‘Hungry for the Truth’ for not resorting to personal attacks with us; with those of us who truly feel that language laws – any language laws; are uncontitutional and immoral to begin with and should never have been instituted in Canada’s laws.
You wrote:
“And by the way Cory have you received official sponsorship for being, “THE ULTIMATE TRUTH”? Why are your words the TRUTH ? And do you, yourself not lay accusations against the French, and assumptions as you have in your posted opinions.? Some that I’ve read are pretty defamatory to the French-speaking Canadians in my view.!!!
No of course I haven’t received official sponsorship for being, “THE ULTIMATE TRUTH”? as you have penned “Hungry for the Truth.’ My accusations are laid upon the altar of French enthocentrists, separatists and the whole bilingualism program as it were in this country. The numbers do not lie – we do not need a fully bilingual workforce that represents a mere 17% of French speakers in this country. We call it social engineering. Whole hordes of qualified and sometimes bilingual and trilingual people whose languages might not include French as a second or third language are loosing out due to unfair language laws. This is simply absurd.
My points I make to you are not to convince you to agree with me; nor to have you empathize nor sympathize for what I believe. I am attempting to show you why we feel the way we do, backed up by stats, personal stories and also journalistic integrity through the many horror stories coming out of Quebec.
Let me also point out ‘Hungry for the Truth’; is not Quebec’s stance rather unfair with its approach to Canada’s bilingual policies? Not only this, but the seemingly attack of the English language and practicioners of said language not only through laws but by personal business decisions such as the manager of the IGA and her approach to the use of the English ‘ghetto’ language?
Seems to me like corey is still trying to justify his limitations. if 25 % of the population of cornwall is french speaking, doesn’t that justify in itself bilingual staff. And for that matter, CCH is not bilingual, more the once I have been into the CCH and addressed an individual in french and I heard the reply, english ? Granted, I waited and got service in french because it is my right.
Should we go by representation by population, wouldn’t work. I say hire the best person possible for the job. And if one person can tend to 75 % of the population and the other 100%, who do you think should be hired?
Hungry for the Truth, you wrote:
“The issue is no different than a Doctor that is specialized in noses and ears. Although he or she may very well be qualified in their respective field, an opening becomes available in the Gynecology Dept., does that make the Doctor a candidate?
Yes, but does it make him qualified. NO!
No, this isn’t the crux of the argument, as you stated and described above. Because language notwithstanding, you’re comparing different jobs here. That of an Otolaryngologist (Ear, nose and throat specialist) with that of a doctor of Gynecology. In regards to the bilingualism requirements of nursing jobs, you’re performing the same function (not different job); sometimes just describing what you’re doing to a patient in a different language. So why do all CCH full-time nurses need to be bilingual to serve a minority Francophone population?
The answer is they don’t. This is simply ensuring that Francophones get the best jobs.
Hungry for the Truth, I recommend you read my research on this in an earlier LTE on this very matter. You’ll find that the Americans handle this issue with ‘translation services’ in their hospitals; a system I believe to be much cheaper and more efficient. Please see the following link: http://cornwallfreenews.com/2012/10/letter-to-the-editor-cory-cameron-asks-if-bilingual-nurses-are-necessary-southern-us-numbers/
@Cory Cameron
July 09, 2013 at 4:02 pm
“CCH hires 100% bilingual.”
At this point Cory I have no way of knowing that the CCH has a
policy the requires nursing staff to be 100% bilingual. I presume
so because you say so. Does this suggest that the nurses hired
from the province of Quebec speak English?
“This is not representative of the communities needs.
“This isn’t a fair picture whatsoever.”
When Administration have planning exercises I’m certain
the definition of Communities is in a broader term.
Medical services must include planning for all eventual foreseeable
catastrophic emergencies and prepare accordingly.
Let me give you an example of foreseeable, catastrophic events that must be part of the response strategies. Lac Megantic train derailment was not expected, but was foreseeable.
Cornwall is on the main Windsor-Montreal corridor. Should fire, police and medical response not foresee for such events? It’s just not all about Cornwall’s every day needs they must include fair, responsive, adequate delivery of services to all Ontarian’s and Canadians. And be respective of the requirements of the law.
“There should be no language laws to begin with”
That’s right we should put our own needs first and forget that
French-speaking Canadians are Equal. IT”S THE LAW.
“By the way, am I blaming anyone for not having learned Gaelic or Mohawk? No, it’s my own fault for not having done so.”
In all due respect nor should you blame, the French-speaking Canadians.
“There is a difference between providing services in the largest minority language and socially engineering the laws of a country to the point whereby English parents are blackmailed into sending their kids to receive an immersion or all French education with the hopes that they’re children will one day have a
good job.”
Parents blackmailed into sending kids….What??? what a twisted perception of a program, that can only be beneficial and prepare Children for the future and realities. French education can change the future for children and they can possibly be spared this antagonistic situation that you apparently have to stand at the Podium and defend.
French-speaking Canadians are here have been here for 146 years and without a doubt will be here and growing for a good number years to come !!!
It’s so apropos that *s* would be singing the praises of another poster (HFTT) who doesn’t have the numbers straight. She once tried to say Quebec had this highest tuition fees.
But that, as they say, is all water under the bridge.
If i were you HFTT i would give up on “relying on” numbers and stats (especially the ones from 2006) which in your post on July 9, 2013 at 1:49 pm you called
” my HOME GROWN Stats from STATS CAN.And I know that their are more recent stats 2011. Many are debating it’s accuracy.”
If any stats had inaccuracies it would have been the 2006 set. And at the hands of the French, no less. Imparatiff was it?
This story originally appeared in many newspapers including the Ottawa Citizen.
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/ontario-ca-ontario/T42ODF1FM6S6QENM6
An oldie but a goodie 🙂
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5H8WCbueNs
Oh and, have a nice day eh 🙂
Highlander July 9, 2013 at 4:32 pm
Hungry for the Truth….
July 9, 2013 at 1:49 pm
If it’s all the same to you dear sir or madam, I will not make this a
NUMBERS game. It’s real Humans not numbers.
“Well not so hungry for the truth -just not excepting of it.
How would YOU propose that a government policy is implemented with a measurable a outcome? ”
I believe that the the Ontario government have already established a measurable OUTCOME. When they signed into Law the Ontario Services Act. They did the NUMBERS. And I’m OK
with that. I agree, they are a reflective interpretation.
The funny thing with Numbers everyone has their versions and interpretations .If you don’t mind , I’ll really on The Government’s assessments, after all I’m not statistician.
If the job is to serve the minimal amount of French-speaking clients as you would have me believe, well it would make sence to me that the majority of jobs are given to English-speaking candidates. SO where is the unfairness?
“65% of all government Prov and Federal bilingual hires so that is considered “fair” to 8o% of the population that does not speak the second language?”
I most certainly do agree that services and their delivery should be done as close as possible to the LAW. The Languages Act. So when hiring, sure I think it’s fair. After all the work is being commissioned by Canadians and for Canadians. That’s both official languages. And again Highlander it’s all #### but your take on them is unfairness.If you remove the fact that their is a law a play on NUMBERS is all that’s left. It shifts the debate onto the accuracy of the numbers rather than the law.
Like I’ve stated before, it’s not about language it’s a job requirement. It is no different than a Warehouse posting a job and requires the candidates to be able to lift 75 lbs. So should all those that do not meet the requirement claim unfairness or should they get a membership at the Gym? If they really
want the job ?
It’s about QUALIFICATIONS AND REQUIEREMENTS. Not
about language. It just so happens that in this case one of the many requirement but not limited to is an ability to speak both official languages of Canada, (lift 75 lbs) in other words. In my view.
HftT wrote, “Is the same not available all CANADIANS to further their education in order to advance.?”
So, what you are saying is the majority 80 % plus Anglophones SHOULD ALL learn French. While at the very same time the French minority are basically forbidding their children from learning English.
NICE !!!
If we were to extrapolate that over many years, we end up with “the master plan.”
No need for the French to learn English to “get along” in Canada, a land that was ceded to the British by France after the British defeated the French btw) because the 30 million Anglos (or thereabouts) have are to learn French to “accommodate” the 8 million French (or thereabouts)
— of which 7 million or more can already speak and understand English
NICE!! Just brilliant. And the Anglo`s are expected to go along with this JUST LIKE THAT?
There are only two small tiny little slight problems with this scenario.
1) In a country / world where English is dominant (ie: air traffic controllers as just one small example) wouldn’t it just be much easier and less of a hassle if the tiny minority of French just kept their French language and heritage but learned English “just to get along in the “English” world in general.”
AND
2) The minority Francophones are basically (through strong arm government tactics) forcing the majority English to learn a language that is completely not necessary “in the big picture” and costs a ton more in cash (TAX MONEY) and plenty of resentment to boot because like i said, French is a nice language to know — IF YOU WISH TO KNOW IT, OR ìf you have been were privy to know it while growing up or whatever — but, it SHOULD NOT be something forced upon the majority English people)
Hungry for the Truth…..your comment “If the job is to serve the minimal amount of French-speaking clients as you would have me believe, well it would make sence to me that the majority of jobs are given to English-speaking candidates. SO where is the unfairness?”
If that was the case Hungry…then no one would be complaining. The unfairness is the majority of jobs are given to bilingual candidates to serve the minimal amount of French-speaking clients and this makes no sense at all.
I am so very upset. I went to MacDonald’s today and ordered a MacCAFE in French.
I said, un Maccafe s’il-vous-plait and the employee said “Is that al”
WELL!!!! Needless to say I was very upset. I didn’t say anything to the employee, but I will be sending a letter to the UN, the federal government and the head office…..my rights were violated.
Richard Tremblay: You say you cannot reason with someone like Beth because she says she can speak French but she choses not to.. That’ kind of a bizarre comment coming from you when you admit to visiting CCH but demand to speak with someone who speaks French, obviously you know how to speak English but you chose not too. Même chose, NON?
STELLABYSTARLIGHT your rights were not violated at MacDonalds , they are not a federal service and Ontario is not a bilingual province, New Brunswick is. Perhaps you knew that and were only continuing to be your usual mindlessly bullying self. NO THUMBS UP. Ridiculous comment, grow up and contribute something with purpose.
@Rosie
July 9, 2013 at 8:57 pm
“ If that was the case Hungry…then no one would be complaining. The unfairness is the majority of jobs are given to bilingual candidates to serve the minimal amount of French-speaking clients and this makes no sense at all.”
True Rosie if look at it that way. But from the sick individuals that grew up in this area and worked here paid their Taxes and have arrived at the age that they need medical services. And their mother tongue is French. Do you think, to them, it makes more sense?
So what do you mean when you say makes no sense at all. To who? The patient that need care? The staff?
I’m sure that from the perspective of the patients they will
be very appreciative that someone can understand them.
I’m sure that from their perspective I’ll bet it will make allot
of sense.
Maybe Rosie you may have an answer to question that’s been on
my mind. Who is making all these job requirements?
And it’s based on what?
I hope it’s not because their out to get the uni-lingual staff.
NO, I’m sure it must be based on something more than
that. Hope you can help ?
Again I’ve said, whether it’s 01 or 10,000.000 they have
RIGHTS.
I believe we must remain vigilant at protecting the Rights
of the patients. As a matter of Fact I believe there is a copy
of patients Rights that hangs outside of CCU.
@RICHARD were you not aware that health care is a provincial service? OHIP….in New Brunswick it would be your right. Or in the Nation of Quebec. Why do you whine so much when in reality here in Ontario you receive such courtesy from your English countryman? Indeed very baffling, from this perspective it is becoming to look like a trait of the french and rather embarrassingly childish.
@Rosie
July 9, 2013 at 9:09 pm
“Richard Tremblay: You say you cannot reason with someone like Beth because she says she can speak French but she choses not to.. That’ kind of a bizarre comment coming from you when you admit to visiting CCH but demand to speak with someone who speaks French, obviously you know how to speak English but you chose not too. Même chose, NON?”
Very good example of what I’ve attempted to convey.
What I’m hearing and you can correct me if I’m wrong.
The translation goes something like this.
“ Richard why don’t you just give up your right to speak French.
You could better accomadate us and we will have succeeded at
assimilating you to English. After all your just a spoiled brat for
wanting this because you speak English.”
That, I think pretty much sums up the level of respect
that is given to one’s French-speaking Rights.
It’s the LAW. Start there.
PS… And Rosie I think he said he asked to speak to someone in French.
He did not say that he demanded.
@Rosie RE POST on July 9, 2013 at 9:09 pm
Not quite. It’s NEVER the same to “that type.” Just like Thibideau (the OC Transpo / Air Canada ) dude.
There is a sense of entitlement & “I AM BETTER” which makes them believe that even in minority numbers they SHOULD be equal to EVERYONE ELSE. Even in a country where they make up a tiny minority.
However, you will notice how this doesn’t apply in Quebec though. As as soon as they are the majority it is
— MAJORITY FRENCH RULES —
Just that piece of information should be ENOUGH to open peoples eyes as to what we should expect once they get a majority numbers anywhere else. (which –IS– happening and also, the plan)
Just watch Pauline Marois and her minions speak and you can sense the pure arrogance and sense of self importance.
Actually, watching them speak is akin to the feeling you probably get when reading posts here from *s*.
My understanding is that even the French “snow birds” in Florida try this same cr@p over there in the U.S. and people have had it up to here with that bull$hit there too.
My dear mother (a 100% pure French women) who was obviously VERY familiar with the French mentality always told me to keep two things in mind about the French.
1) If you give em an inch they will TAKE a mile.
AND
2) It’s not unusual for them to cry uncle in a fight and then punch you in the “back” as you’re walking away after HAVING BEEN NICE enough to heed their pleas of surrender and let them up.
They want French ONLY in Quebec and they push for it. Plus, they are now demanding French dominant or French only outside of Quebec as well, and they are getting it.
The reality of this situation is there. No one has to make up lies or fantasy about what is going on.. It is ALL RIGHT THERE.
What is being done to the English in the province of Quebec is downright (add you own adjective here) despicable.
These things are REALLY happening as we can all see in front of our eyes.
We MUST accept the reality of what is being done to our fellow Canadian brethren and confront it, just as they would and do.
Matter of fact, it is our duty and obligation as a culture and as a people to do so.
This is why it is important for the English to STAND UP for their side in these issues. And btw, standing up for the English side in this DOES NOT mean you are anti French as “THEY” will try to say.
And you know what Rosie? Based on the actions of the French themselves over the years, i can clearly see that my mother was right, and a VERY wise woman to indeed 🙂
NOTE: It SHOULD NOT have to be said but, I will say it anyways. This DOES NOT apply to — ALL — French people.
But, like most generalizations there are enough elements (percentage wise) pulling down one side of the scale that generalizing is within the realm of legitimacy.
I like to call it…
The 70% rule.
(Remember: You heard it here first 🙂 )
Stay well everyone.
@David Oldham RE: POST on July 9, 2013 at 10:09 pm
David wrote, “STELLABYSTARLIGHT your rights were not violated at MacDonalds , they are not a federal service and Ontario is not a bilingual province, New Brunswick is. Perhaps you knew that and were only continuing to be your usual mindlessly bullying self. NO THUMBS UP. Ridiculous comment, grow up and contribute something with purpose.”
Bravo David. SO darn well articulated it deserved to be re-posted.
Stella do you have a problem with reading???
You have been told countless times Highlander is NOT Howard Galganov.
Give your freakin head a shake!!!!
HftT wrote, “Who is making all these job requirements?
And it’s based on what?”
I realize this was addressed to you Rosie. I hope you don’t mind if i add my own two cents here Rosie.
Just wanted to note: In these times of economic penny pinching the hospitals (as just one example) are offered wads of ca$h from the government if they voluntarily designate themselves as bilingual. THEN, as a result of designating themselves as such (and receiving the desperately needed ca$h (which BTW is a double irony because it comes from mostly majority Anglophone tax payers, just based on sheer numbers) they then MUST hire bilingual staff which often is over and above a decent ratio in relation to the amount of French Vs English for whatever small town this is occurring in.
http://youtu.be/Gxag3tVJg3A
Like this man in the Cornwall area.
@edudyorlik
July 9, 2013 at 7:59 pm
As much as I would want to engage with you it would be like a crazy man bashing his head against a wall. And because I’m not a crazy man I’d rather not bleed . It’s obvious that your are a real Authority with a far Superior Intelligence than I could ever achieve. You’re in a league all your own. Continue Bashing away and French slapping if it can bring you what is apparent, some much needed comfort. HFTT….
“RADICALISM has no boundaries nor does it subscribe to Logic.”
“My understanding is that even the French “snow birds” in Florida try this same cr@p over there in the U.S. and people have had it up to here with that bull$hit there too.”
This is ironic as I have heard that around Hollywood, Florida there exists a problem like this. And lo and behold, I found an article detailing this this morning. Here’s a few interesting quotes; sure to embarrass a few of us Canadians. Quotes taken from: http://www.sptimes.com/News/020901/State/Quebeckers_feel_chill.shtml
“Some French Canadians claim the city is actively trying to drive them away, by such means as raising parking meter rates near the beach to $1 an hour.”
What? Wouldn’t everyone pay that rate for parking and not just the Quebecois? Do Quebecers think they’re excempt from inflation? This seems odd. Does this attitude stem from a sense of entitlement and/or self-centeredness?
Here’s another quote as well from the same article:
“Quebeckers are “safe, culturally and linguistically,” says Remy Tremblay, a University of Ottawa geography instructor who recently did his doctoral thesis on Floribec. “It’s like being in Quebec with tropical weather.”
How can Professor Tremblay argue the above? Isn’t the whole idea and point of a vacation to permit people to leave their familiar stomping grounds and to escape from where their from? Isn’t one of the mainstays of getting away from your home to experience a different culture? Judging by the article, it seems that Professor Tremblay is arguing that this portion of Florida is like a little Quebec outside of Quebec.
Here is another telling quote from Tremblay:
“Tremblay, who has visited Hollywood Beach since childhood, says the French-Canadian population is also threatened by the encroachment of high-rise condos and four- and five-star star hotels.”
The French Canadian population is threatened? What? This is a vacation destination?! Outside of Quebec; even Canada no less! What a skewed impression. I feel after reading this that it’s as if Tremblay embodies’ the idea of a Quebecois sense of entitlement.
Does anyone else feel this way?
I feel that few people outside of Quebec have much of a problem with providing some level of bilingual service. Not as a sign of respect for a language, not because it is thrust upon us, but because of a genuine desire to help other Canadians.
It is very unreasonable and expensive to even attempt to have completely bilingual staff in every nick and cranny of such a large expanse of land Canada is.
A kind of ratio as observed in other posts, is worthy of consideration, an increasing difficulty with that though, is no one is performing any kind of needs assessment. It is just how do we make things more French. And this view is much more realistic than radical, just as saying it is law and I want my rights is radical in a democratic country.
I agree HFTT. Had I been anglo in Quebec requesting services in english, I would have been called a crusader or as my friend stella says, a freedom fighter. But because I can get by in english, and because corey didn’t get the job he thinks he deserves, I should forgo my right to be served in french. I’ll just repeat what I briefly read in a previous post, use it or lose it.
¨This is simply ensuring that Francophones get the best jobs¨Ridicule! Je travaille pour un magasin de pièce d’autos. J’aimerais bien avoir un travail à 100 000 dollars par année mais je ne l’ai pas. Am I blaming everything under the sun because I think I deserve more, nope. I realized that even at 27 years old, life is too short. I’m content with what I have and I’m not going to ask (or blame) everyone else and ask government institutions to lower their criteria of employment so I can get a higher paying job. Encore une fois mon ami corey parait comme un bébé gâté qui retient son souffle parce qu’il n’a pas eu ce qu’il a voulu.
@HUNGRY for the TRUTH
While everyone has to interpret for themselves, our personal bias is indeed reflected in the result. I read and interpret that Rosie was merely suggesting the lunacy of Richard’s logic.
For the better educated, expedient health care is the primary concern, not language. There are many minorities other than French in Canada who manage quite well and are perfectly happy simply to embrace being Canadian.
While we all enjoy the concept of having certain undeniable rights when certain individuals mistake wants for rights they communicate a sense of entitlement. This results in stereotyping an entire group as arrogant and ignorant of the needs of others.
It would serve us all better to be part of the solution rather than merely propagating the problem. It can begin will the realization that there are more important issues facing this nation that we should be focusing on rather than indulging in self serving justifications for feelings of inferiority or entitlement. This by the way, so that it is not interpreted incorrectly, applies to all sides of the language issue.
yep……reeled in…..hook, line and sinker.
The intention was to show the ridiculousness and absurdity of asking for a stamp in English and complaining that the woman had the audacity to speak French. That was after the actual sale. A set up if you will.
Interesting article on the “snow birds” Cory.
And, we can’t forget this little gem…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5EYxb9K6oM&hd=1
Double standards in action. Imagine the ridiculousness and absurdity of asking for a stamp in french and complaining that the woman had the audacity to speak English. Entitlement, what a divisive force for arrogant members of our society. Fortunately this mind set affects a small minority of the insecure and does not portray the better class within the same group.
Hungry for the Truth….
July 9, 2013 at 6:15 pm
“Parents blackmailed into sending kids….What??? what a twisted perception of a program, that can only be beneficial and prepare Children for the future and realities. ”
Now not so hungry for the truth- of all the many parents I know most would not send their children to french immersion if it were not the artificial demand by the government for those jobs DEEMED BILINGUAL.
Hungry for the Truth….
July 9, 2013 at 7:44 pm
“I believe that the the Ontario government have already established a measurable OUTCOME. When they signed into Law the Ontario Services Act. They did the NUMBERS. And I’m OK
with that. I agree, they are a reflective interpretation.”
Well,well glad you brought that up -french services language act was passed by the Ontario government in Nov 1986 in the middle of the night and with 55 legislators out of 125 in french first ……interesting .
The criteria for providing french language services are 10% of the population and/or 5000 people regionally therefore it encompasses over 90% of the province -French remains only 4% of the population of Ontario and 90% of them in Eastern Ontario .
Now all courts across Ontario must be bilingual even in say Windsor were they represent far less then 1%.
Imagine the costs of implementing this !
say for an example Kingston with a pop of 165000 and there is regionally 5000 now all government services must be bilingual !
Toronto 4.5 million sure to have 5000 Francophones well all government services are deemed bilingual even though they represent far less then 1% -Now where do you think they will get those thousands of bilingual workers to fill those jobs?
From the same population that demands those services and represent such a small population!
stellabystarlight
July 10, 2013 at 8:06 am
“The intention was to show the ridiculousness and absurdity of asking for a stamp in English and complaining that the woman had the audacity to speak French. That was after the actual sale. A set up if you will.”
The intention had only made you look the fool that you are !!!!!
David Oldham
July 9, 2013 at 10:09 pm
STELLABYSTARLIGHT your rights were not violated at MacDonalds , they are not a federal service and Ontario is not a bilingual province, New Brunswick is. Perhaps you knew that and were only continuing to be your usual mindlessly bullying self. NO THUMBS UP. Ridiculous comment, grow up and contribute something with purpose.
Checkmate for David ,
No debate ,no research ,nothing of substance but propaganda from her……standard practice and all informed commentators and viewers are aware of this.
It goes to say….because one has some form of education doesn’t they are smart!