UCDSB & Cornwall Schools Fall in Fraser 2012/13 Report – Why Does Cornwall Score Worse than Brockville?

201112 elementary schoolsCORNWALL Ontario – So which schools in Cornwall improved or receded in 2012 according to the Fraser Institute Canadian study?

Let’s take a peek!

2012 Cornwall Elementary Schools FRASIER

Cornwall’s best school in 2011/12, St. Anne’s slipped substantially going from 142/2714 to 551/3030 in 2012/13.

In 2011/12 Viscount Alexander ranked 567/2714.   This year they ranked 1218/3030 and slipped to 4th on the chart.

Rose des Ventes was 1173 in 2011 and in 3rd place.  In 2012/13 they rose 1039/3030.  Kudos to RDV!

Notre Dame scored 1173 in 2011.  They fell to 1616 and a few notches this year.

Eamer’s Corners plunged to   2664/3030 after being 1305 the year before.

East Front jumped to 794 this year after scoring 1518.  Kudos to the kids at East Front!

Marie Tanguay was 2188 and moved to 2073/3030.

St.Columban’s was also at 2188 fell to 2957/3030

Immaculate Conception was 2278 in 2011/12.  It jumped to 1530/3030.  Kudos to them for jumping so mightily in one year!

St. Peter’s 2228 to dead last in Cornwall with a ranking of 3005/3030 in all of Canada!

Sacred Heart 2378 fell to 2822.

Bishop Macdonell 2405 also fell to 2855/3030

Gladstone 2645/2714 rose to 2429/3030.    Kudos to the kids!

Central was also 2645 in 2011/12.   In 2012/13 they scored 2664/3030

Ahkwesahsne Mohawk was 2667/2714 in 2011/12 and in 2012/13 they moved up a few notches to 2939/3030

So what is causing our Cornwall area schools to rank so poorly?  Is it the Fluoride in the water?  Poor teachers?  Economic suffering as the per capita incomes are lower in Cornwall?   Healthcare?  Not enough local stimulation and activities?

Is it simply that our best and brightest move away and that what’s left score lower?   Are the bars dropped too low instead of being raised high?   The Fraser report has been criticized locally; but would that criticism be there if the scores were higher?

So let’s look at nearby Brockville Ontario which has a population of about half of Cornwall, but whose economy is nearly triple.

Brockville 2013

Over half of Brockville’s schools score in the top half of the rankings with St. Francis Xavier ranking a very impressive 76/3030.

So how is it that Brockville seems to do such a better job of educating their kids than Cornwall does?    Is the system skewed toward our friends 90 KM to the West somehow?

And why do the Catholic schools score so much higher than the schools under the UCDSB?

Is it the culture?   Is it the impact of parenting on educating their children in this day of limited budgets for schools to work with because some school boards are busy spending money on high priced Toronto legal firms?

The good news for Cornwall Ontario is that there’s a whole lot of room for improvement.   The question is if the will to do so is within the community?

Fraser Report Card FAQ

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41 Responses to "UCDSB & Cornwall Schools Fall in Fraser 2012/13 Report – Why Does Cornwall Score Worse than Brockville?"

  1. David Oldham   February 4, 2014 at 9:57 AM

    Children, regardless of social-economic background and still enveloped in the innocent world of vivid imagination soak everything in the world that surrounds them. As with all living creatures they require food and nurturing. You can only blame poverty and station in life for so much, unfortunately it has become a crutch and overall excuse to rationalize our flaws. Being poor does not make you lazy or dirty a drunk or drug addict or unlucky.

    I would not expect Cornwall to be the same as Brockville, the stimulus is quite different, evidently.

    I would wager to say that in Cornwall we do not have a poorer quality of child but rather a poorer attitude and ability to properly nurture our children. The situation is the result of the lack/type of stimulus provided by the adults (teachers, parents and community). We need to accept this simple truth and rise to the challenge, not for own bruised egos but rather for the welfare of our children.

  2. David Oldham   February 4, 2014 at 10:09 AM

    Just to add to my comment regarding attitude and preparation, these are two of the key differences that separate winners from losers. The question becomes which do you wish your children to be ?

  3. Hailey Brown   February 4, 2014 at 10:21 AM

    You seem to be missing a bit of information from this Fraser institute. If you review he PDF version you will notice a section shown as “Special Needs” on the top right hand corner of every school report.
    Schools in Cornwall seem to have the highest percentage of special needs kids ranking in some cases as much a 49 %( Seaway) 35% ( St Lawrence), 70% (Bishop), 53% (Central), 48% (Notre Dame)

    Having friends in the teaching profession a lot of the problems also boils down to family and home life, we all know in some cases in a low income area is not always the best. This is not to say education is not responsible, but there is an imbalance in accountability by parents. Yes the teacher must teach but the student must learn and want to learn, and the family must provide them with a safe and healthy environment as well.

    You can attribute the declining scores to municipal government and the likes of Mr Boileau and Mr Peters as well. They are trying to remove the mill town image and leaving social devastation in its wake. Their goals are taking away the quality of life and an individual’s sense of pride, belonging and something to believe in.

  4. Hailey Brown   February 4, 2014 at 10:30 AM

    I disagree with your comment David, “The question becomes which do you wish your children to be ?.
    It is the child’s dream not the parents; it is listening to the kid recognizing their talents and educating them to attain the goals. This is a fallacy with education, they are driven by secondary education to fit a mold that nobody has truly even cast

    But what no parent likes to hear is their child is not as they seem…or that the parents goal will not be reached which n turn could be the child has no interest in being a nurse but would rather be a machine operator

  5. David Oldham   February 4, 2014 at 10:54 AM

    None of it makes sense. We have dedicated bike lanes, countdown flashing numbers at intersections and the Benson Centre. The collective intelligence and direction of ten councilors and one full time mayor a transit system that almost runs on a daily basis and a French only clinic. A public hospital that hires with language as a principal prerequisite a bloated police service and lots of one way streets. A forward thinking planning department ( what tanks?) property standards second to who ? and only slightly used baseball diamonds on the waterfront. Accountability and transparency and Team Cornwall.

    So what is the problem ?

  6. Hailey Brown   February 4, 2014 at 12:10 PM

    Sorry David I don’t follow your point in the last post

  7. David Oldham   February 4, 2014 at 12:28 PM

    Sorry Hailey Brown for the confusion my question caused. What I really should have posed was …do we really not simply want the best for our sons and daughters ? That is what I trying to allude to so that is what I should have said (hindsight being what it is).

  8. Furtz   February 4, 2014 at 1:01 PM

    Not sure how anyone can take the Fraser Institute seriously. It’s a big-business funded hard-right registered charity that regularly produces reports promoting big-business views. It’s always pushing training rather than education. Always predictable and always biased.

  9. jules   February 4, 2014 at 2:21 PM

    Mr. Oldham both you and Hayley are right on what you both said is true. I will say something here and that there is a big difference between Brockville and Cornwall and Cornwall has always been known as a lower socio type of society even back in my day but today it is worse than ever before. Brockville has always been known as an upper socio society compared to Cornwall. Parents who are of good standing encourage their kids in education and make sure that they attain their goals. Not every child is cut out for university and who said that also was 420 and he was right in what he said that we need people who are mechanics, plumbers, electricians, etc. and they make good money as well and nothing wrong with working with ones hands at all. In order to succeed you have to be able to learn and encouragement is needed and not to be sitting in front of the “bube idiot tube” known as the TV which destroys brain cells nor playing games on computers, etc. I put the full blame on parents for not encouraging and helping their children. Many parents in Cornwall have no education themselves so what do you expect in the children – children learn from their parents and their peers.

  10. jules   February 4, 2014 at 2:29 PM

    Mr. Oldham one more thing that you mentioned about a public hospital that demands a language as a prerequisite well the same thing is true right here in Ottawa. If you do not have advanced French here in Ottawa forget about working in hospitals, clinics, etc. The government demands French as well and it is vitally important. Even working in the stores I hear many languages spoken here in Ottawa and even some of the cashiers are Italian, some from India, Lebanon, etc. and some communicate in those languages. Where my daughter works there are at least three or four women who speak fluent Italian. The more languages that you know the better you are. Never think that French and other languages are not important but quite to the contrary. It is way past the time that people put their racist ways away and learn languages because soon people will have to know the Chinese dialects and then you would have something to complain about.

  11. 420   February 4, 2014 at 3:22 PM

    Thanks for the Gladstone shout out Admin. My kids alone skewed them upward last year. Quite a few foreigners and retards bringing scores down in Cornwall. All you have to do is look at the parents full of tattoos and crack. You don’t want to dive into the gene pool in Cornwall cause there’s no deep end. IYKWIMAITTYD.

  12. Eric   February 4, 2014 at 3:26 PM

    It kind of looks like kids do better in schools that promote one language over the other, meaning all English or French are higher in rankings.

    Jules, we can agree that knowledge of language(s) can be helpful. Vitally important though? No!
    If Western Quebec had their own quality big hospital, and if Ontario reduced from payments the Quebec funding amount to our hospitals, we would not have to cater so much.Our waiting lines are longer because of it, our costs to increase hospital space is higher, and Quebecers are not paying the health tax we do.
    I want all Canadians to have decent, fair health care, I just don’t want to pay more and be more inconvenienced for another province to enjoy it.

    For every job made bilingual, a unilingual is discriminated against.

  13. David Oldham   February 4, 2014 at 6:06 PM

    When did training cease to become a form of education ? Anyone ?

  14. Furtz   February 4, 2014 at 7:54 PM

    @ David. Do you buy into the Fraser Institute’s claim that poverty doesn’t exist in Canada? And if it does, it’s a privilege because it builds character?

  15. Furtz   February 4, 2014 at 8:17 PM

    Holy jumpin Eric. Do you never tire of obsessing about people speaking English and French?
    Might be time for you to take up a hobby or get a life. We have two official languages in Canada. Your endless squawking and whining about that fact won’t change anything.

  16. jules   February 4, 2014 at 8:27 PM

    Eric back in my day I was living in the district of CCVS and I didn’t want to attend that school at all and had to until I managed to get into St. Michael’s Academy and from there to go to St. Lawrence High School where I wanted to go. I went to both the English and French sections of the school which is now Ecole La Citadelle. My French was very high in advance French and I wasted some time in the basic which was the only French that was taught at CCVS. I was practically falling asleep in the classroom because it was so easy and trying to hold back my laughter. My English was weak and I got through it ok but not at all what it should have been. Usually one is stronger in one language than another. I have always spent many hours studying but some subjects are always weak. I even have a good chuckle at my English and spelling when I blog. Some schools are better than others and this is true in the US as well. Even here in Ottawa some schools are known to be better than others. Some of those good schools are not in good areas of the town but in some of the worst neighborhoods but the quality of education is one of the better. A lot depends on the student how gifted they are, on the parents as well, etc. Some students are slow learners and some of those slow learners are very good at other things but cannot retain things in their heads like regular kids and they have to be in a special class or they will drag down the other students. Some kids are very hyperactive but very intelligent and there was a school here in Ottawa for such students. That system may still exist since that was a long time ago that I knew about this system.

  17. jules   February 4, 2014 at 8:32 PM

    Eric we have a lot of people from Western Québec who use our hospitals here in Ottawa because they get much better service than they do in Gatineau and those other cities across the river. Back in 2007 my daughter had viral pneumonia and we waited 10 hours before we could see a doctor. Some people left because they knew that it was taking way too long to get treated.

    Québec pays a huge tax more than what we do here in Ontario but the problem is that the province abuses the money and it doesn’t go to the people who deserve it. The people of Québec put the blame on we Ontarions and the rest of Canada but they are kept in the dark of where their money goes.

  18. jules   February 4, 2014 at 8:43 PM

    420 I sure do agree and so does my daughter and we see it when we are at the stores and on the streets, etc. You often wonder how a lot were ever let in to the country and where they came from – maybe some sewer hole somewhere. You sure see all kinds. In past years we didn’t see what we see today and yes it brings down the scores in the schools for sure and most likely the government knows about it. Some foreign kids really do succeed and one little fellow whose uncle sponsored him from Iraq settled in very well here in Ottawa and speaks English fluently and so much so that the kids in school could hardly believe that he was coming from Iraq. A lot depends on the parents of these kids just like you said and the influence of the parents and what kind they are is how a child grows up. What I see around me and what my children see is utterly something else to behold. These kinds of people bring down the society as well. My husband’s nieces told me the same problem exists in Australia because of the unwanted kinds that Australia struggles with every day.

  19. Claudette MacIntosh   February 4, 2014 at 9:21 PM

    So glad Furtz pointed out the “truth” about the crackpot Fraser mind trust
    All media seem to report their nonsense as if it was from a trusted neutral think tank
    Speaking of media SF brian dryden email now bounces back..did they loose yet another body over there?

  20. Eric   February 5, 2014 at 8:09 AM

    Furtz, it is very therapeutic reminding people that we have a class society. Bilingual / Francophone / minority / unilingual. Increasingly jobs are going to bilingual thus removing a fair opportunity because of language. Outside of Quebec the numbers of bilingual people has gone down, not talking about it will further reduce any fairness affecting future generations even more.

    Jules, it is up to the residents of Western Quebec to demand better of their politicians, just the same as we need to. Ontario has better service because our residents are putting more money in, Quebec pays less per service to us by the way, and extra demand is creating longer wait times. Duality, as they are seeing in New Brunswick (French medical care & bilingual are the new normal) will bankrupt us.

  21. David Oldham   February 5, 2014 at 9:54 AM

    @Furtz and Claudette … I certainly get that both of you believe that you know the “truth” about Canada’s number one think tank the Fraser Institute. Which is also one of the top twenty five such bodies in the world.

    On what grounds precisely do you refute their school rating data ? Actually, more enlightening would be the source(s) that both of you use to maintain such a scathing opinion(s). Or is it just another conspiracy theorist ranting on and on via the internet ? Your silence will speak loudly of your credibility, your reply might drown out the silences inferences.

  22. Hailey Brown   February 5, 2014 at 10:14 AM

    The Fraser institute is a fabricated entity to assist government to decide who and how much money to provide for boards. It is also controlled by schools in manipulating the way tests are taken. The intention is to be fair but schools with lower special needs children have ben known to ask kids to stay home for test day. A school with 15% special needs would not be scrutinized with low attendance rates of the special needs kids as would a school with 48%.

    The language issue in Canada is a huge black mark on every aspect of our way of life. In many other countries people easily speak a minimum of two languages but many do speak more. That is in hugs art demographics and interest in education knowing they may need to communicate in other countries. I have never seen a Slavic school board and a French school board and an English school board in Poland. You typically have one education system and “You will adapt”.

    Here we have a French and English and catholic French catholic English and for what need?

    Take religion out of schools make language mandatory but offer more than French. Numbers are all the same across the nation, special needs can be unique to an individual but one system would have better resources to assist each other.

    Only Quebec needs it. The Quebec market in light of the politics and social media are in dire straits and French language only policies will add to their demise

  23. Furtz   February 5, 2014 at 11:38 AM

    David Oldham, Do your own research. It’s not difficult to find out who funds the Fraser Institute.

  24. David Oldham   February 5, 2014 at 1:35 PM

    I anticipated from previous posts that your response would allude to some kind of unsupported mindless conspiracy type answer rather than a simple intelligent reply containing some hard proof to back up your allegations.

    All charities are corrupt with hidden agendas or just this charity? No answer requested or expected other than your usual sarcasm. At least Claudette MacIntosh seems smart enough not to embroil his/herself any further into the embarrassment of smear speculation. Seems, there is always room for error since ignorance knows no bounds.

  25. David Oldham   February 5, 2014 at 1:40 PM

    Just for the record, Furtz I always do my own research. Nothing personal here either but I (with rare exceptions) start my brain before I put my mouth in gear.

  26. jules   February 5, 2014 at 1:46 PM

    Eric one thing is true that you said that bilingual services does cost more. When I worked in the federal government I was paid extra for bilingualism. I used French every day back then. Even when I left my permanent job and went as term I was using it all the time. The hospitals here in Ottawa have to be bilingual and people cannot get work if they do not have advanced French just like what is happening in Cornwall. You would be very surprised to see how much the French language is in demand here in Ottawa. Québec pays a great deal of taxes and that is the truth but I think that the people are not seeing the money geared towards their services like hospitals for instance along with other things. The rents in Québec are much cheaper than Ontario. A lot of people from the past to the present have purchased homes on the Québec side because the cost is cheaper but the taxes are more which makes things almost the same. If you go on the Québec side it shows to look poor in comparison to Ontario. I haven’t crossed over the bridge since 1989 when I did my last contract with an agency and was happy not to go back.

  27. Furtz   February 5, 2014 at 1:49 PM

    Brilliant as always, David. Just do a quick net search for Fraser Institute donors. It’s really easy, and you might learn something.
    Carry on.

  28. jules   February 5, 2014 at 2:02 PM

    In past years CCVS turned out Ontario scholars and was the top high school in Cornwall. As time went on the school deteriorated. The teachers who were at CCVS were some of the tops and that is the truth. Today the teachers are no longer what they used to be and the same with the administration. If the administration is poor and the teachers are not that good at teaching and parents come over from God knows where and don’t care about their childrens education nor their behavior in the schools then what. The Fraser Institute whatever that think tank is gets their information from the schools and are not making things up out of their heads. Figures have to come from somewhere. The best education comes from the private schools and homeschooling and very few can afford that unless you are at the top income levels. These are the ones that succeed and I don’t think that they are counted in these figures. Parents do have to take an active role in their childrens education and if they don’t then the child goes downhill. It doesn’t mean that if your child is made to be a carpenter then he should be pushed on to be a doctor – no because that child can be a very good carpenter. Each person has their own area that they can excel in.

  29. jules   February 5, 2014 at 2:17 PM

    I just fell on something for all of you to listen to when you get a chance to do so. I found it on youtube about education and this should be something for all parents and students to listen to. These two men talk about the high cost of education in the US and that no everyone can afford to go to university even if they have the high intellect and where the jobs are in demand. People who go to university come out with humoungous debts that they cannot pay back and it costs more to go to universities in the US than in Canada because our government helps subsidize universities and colleges to a certain extent. Anyway before I continue I will give you the site so as I can continue listening to this which is interesting:

    Dirty Jobs’ Mike Rowe on the High Cost of College (Full Interview)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzKzu86AggO

    The trades is where it is at. Just this morning I saw a van going by that was for a plumber and I see more and more people going into the trades these days and plenty of construction here in Ottawa. The people of Québec are working in these trades here and are in great demand.

  30. claudette MacIntosh   February 5, 2014 at 3:17 PM

    David Old HAM
    When you become administrator or God almighty- I might reply..in the meantime listen listen listen

    Silence is Golden
    As for your disgraceful comment about my sexuality ..i add more silence

  31. Furtz   February 5, 2014 at 3:49 PM

    David. Not sure why, but I will respond to your asinine question re registered charities. Of course, there are many legitimate charities that do good work and indeed make an effort to feed the hungry, house the homeless, raise money for medical research etc. And there are scam charities, like certain churches that promote hate, and charities that only exist to shill for big business and the wealthy. Registered charities are all over the map. They can exist to help the poor, or the wealthy.

  32. Melman   February 5, 2014 at 4:17 PM

    I think this is the source of David’s belief everybody should listen to him!!!
    David Oldham
    @RevDavidOldham

    Ordained C of E Priest, Health Advisor to Missionaries, and joint carer of three dependent yet delightful dachshunds.

  33. Eric   February 5, 2014 at 4:30 PM

    claudette, my impression of the “to embroil his/herself any ” comment by David made me think he does not know if your CFN name is made up or real or if male or female. My name may actually be a ruse, it may be Jean-Guy from Shawinigan Que……..

    Leaving the messenger (Fraser Institute) out of it, the numbers presented must be from the Ministry of Education, aren’t they?
    But if the messenger (Fraser Institute) was sponsored for this, are the numbers incorrect?
    ———————————————–

    The Ontario elementary school report card was introduced in 2003. The secondary school report card was introduced in 2007.

    Elementary
    This report card uses Grade 3 and Grade 6 EQAO test results to calculate each school’s Overall rating out of 10. Our interactive web site allows you to easily search for schools, find detailed results for individual schools, and compare results among schools ranked in the Ontario elementary school report card.

    Secondary School
    This report card uses Grade 9 and Grade 10 EQAO test results to calculate each school’s Overall rating out of 10. Our interactive web site allows you to easily search for schools, find detailed results for individual schools, and compare results among schools ranked in the Ontario secondary school report card.

  34. Eric   February 5, 2014 at 4:38 PM

    Jules, you see trades from Quebec because the City of Ottawa has a point system to give out work that includes language. They should have a point system that includes living and paying taxes within the municipality. Check with Ron Barr of the Greater Ottawa Trucking Association for an earful.

  35. Furtz   February 5, 2014 at 4:41 PM

    @ Claudette. Don’t worry about David’s nastiness. He’s just a little out of sorts because Hudak and Harper are in trouble these days. And his buddy Rob Ford is about to be arrested and charged. These are stressful times. Rabid Reformatories are under a lot of pressure these days, and we should cut them some slack.

  36. jules   February 5, 2014 at 5:02 PM

    Cornwall has a lot to offer in the recreation department and people cannot go and complain about that. My Lord don’t complain or Bare Ass will stick another hockey rink on a vacant lot again – one that nobody needs and the taxes are higher to deal with than what a lot of people can manage. Good Lord another 1% hike and to whom does that money go towards – Elaine Kennedy’s charities? The Salvation Army is priority on my list of charities. A few months ago I brought in my husband’s good shoes that he hardly wore (very expensive ones) that he had for years hidden in the back of his closet. I did not throw that away nor anything – I would need my head examined if I did that. All good clothes go to that good charity and old clothes that are not good to wear anymore I have other uses. Just now I am making quilts out of some old clothes and no need to yell out the word poverty and learn to live below ones means. Speaking about clubs I have my son’s Lion’s Club magazine so I better give that to him when he comes back and he is also with the Legion since one of his friend’s is an ex military man. Getting people in the community to get out there and help is what is needed and you get to know what is important instead of having people come in blindly and not knowing what is going on and what the community needs and how to help. Knowing how to budget and knowing one’s needs. The problem with poverty is that people are uneducated and don’t know about budgeting and don’t know that there are jobs out there screaming for help and not one that is university educated and too many people in that area and no work. There is no need to holler out poverty and not go out and do things for oneself. Skills are needed the most these days. Why go to university if you are not made for it and no work in that field when you get out and come out with tons of debts. The trades can earn as much as many university grads and without the humoungous debts that go with it.

  37. Furtz   February 5, 2014 at 6:36 PM

    Jules. If you keep your comments to three lines or less, people will read them.

  38. admin   February 5, 2014 at 6:51 PM

    That’s true Jules….

  39. jules   February 5, 2014 at 8:47 PM

    Thanks Eric I will look into that name that you gave me.

    I do get carried away when I write and can’t help it. I do have something for all of you on education and this is in the US but it depicts our Canadian system as well. I will be giving you the titles and the sites and not much chatting. Here they are so as you can all do your studies.

    Why Schools Don’t Educate by John Taylor Gatto

    http://www.naturalchild.org/guest/john_gatto.html

    The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America by Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt (this is a free e-book for you to download and read at your convenience) she was the head of education in the Ronald Reagan years.

    http://deliberatedumbingdown.com/MomsPDFs/l)

    This particular article that I am going to give you concerns our Canadian politicians sending their kids to private schools.

    Should we be critical of politicians who send their children to private schools?

    http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/canada-politics/ci

    I hope that these will be of some help in understanding about education and I used to listen to John Taylor Gatto some years ago and he was a teacher in NYC in past years. Lots of very good reading.

  40. jules   February 5, 2014 at 9:27 PM

    Eric I just read a lot of articles on this man Ron Barr of the Greater Ottawa Trucking Association and he is right on. I see those trucks go by every day from my window. Even those who work in construction are mostly from Québec. There was one person who blogged saying that the same problem exists between Alberta and B.C.

  41. David Oldham   February 6, 2014 at 5:29 AM

    @Claudette MacIntosh…there was no disgraceful comment regarding your sexuality, I have no knowledge of what your sexuality is. No need to resort to childish foot stomping, I do apologize if I offended you, there was no intent to do so.

    @Melman… ???

    @Furtz…Thank you for your response.

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