Dear Editor,
I am a concerned Canadian citizen and believe it is my civic duty to protect the rights of children in our country and our community from segregation. The act of separating English and French children on different buses is promoting segregation and division across both linguistic groups.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/
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Tensions are rising in New Brunswick (Canada’s ONLY bilingual province) over this very issue, in fact a rally is being planned in Fredericton May 8, 2015 to address the many concerns of bilingualism; proportionate representation and promotion, language hiring policies vs merit hiring policies and forced or compulsory French immersion.
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Many people may not realize this, but in Alexandria, Ontario kids have been riding separate buses for over five years now. Is this happening in our community???
I am not sure, but I do intend to find out. I have sent inquires to all four school boards(UCDSC,CDSBEO,CSDCEO,
Do you accept segregation in Canada?
In Equality,
Debbie Cameron
Long Sault, ON
Well written Debbie, I hope that more parents are going to stand together on this issue to prevent segregation from happening in our back yard
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Segregation? Some may see it as that. To me it’s more about making proper use of our resources. Does it make sense to send multiple buses to multiple schools? No, send a few buses to cover a few schools. It’s also about scheduling.
Unfortunately Deb segregation is in the French culture. Segregation is the basis of promoting French first and English second. Ultimately eliminating English. We see this in Quebec written into laws and its ugly head thrives here in Ontario. Ideal example in Cassleman there flies a huge French Ontario flag yet no Canadian one. No one said anything. Your point with busing is just another valid issue which will be quickly spun as racist or hating French. Yet segregating and French only is quietly swept under the rug. We should all get along and allow both languages to grow normally with each other enforcing bilingualism. But that is not the ultimate goal.
Of course there are separate buses for individual schools.
Each school board has their own bus services and each school has several of their own buses that only pick up and drop off students for their respective schools.
So yes french catholic schools, immersion catholic schools english catholic schools, french public, immersion public and english public all have their own bus system specific to the school.
This has been going on since buses were first used.
Your anti french crusade is taking a turn for the crazy.
So to answer your question. Yes there are separate buses for each school in the area.
Jamie could you put this on for Debbie and everyone to see my former superintendent of this building where I live and her children and her husband was taking the pictures. Her husband was an auditor with the federal government and they did superintendent work on the side. How much the children have grown. Little Mireille used to roller skate in front of the building and JJ was just born before we left to another place = a duplex nearby. The name that I will give you is Paulette Gionet and her husband is Paul Gionet. I miss them terribly and remember the good days of Ottawa. Here is the code to get into facebook and look at the pictures folks.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1C
If you have problems getting in just type in Paulette Gionet Moncton.
There is another Paulette Gionet in Gatineau and that is not the one to put in.
I miss our Paulette from Moncton a great deal and remember when Ottawa was a good place to live compared to today.
Oh My! Is that horrible flag still flying near Cassleman? That’s just like, totally perverted!! Makes me want to move to Alberta. If English was good enough for Jesus Christ, it should be good enough for Canada. Enough is enough!
Yes Furtz that flag is flying in Casselman. And you can find it other places too. What really gets me is that Casselman seems to really think they are part of Quebec. The village’s employees get Jan. 2, June 24 and probably other “Quebec” holidays off. And for further proof take a look at the village website. It is setup for a French audience, not an English one.
Mile M there are no laws protecting the Canadian flag only protocol. The Canadian flag does not have to fly above all others in fact it does not have to fly at all. It can be burned, flown upside down or in tatters or used in any fashion one wishes. Other countries do have specific laws for their flags. The franco Ontarian flag is found in several areas in Ottawa and much more visible than the current Canadian flag.
Debbie the good people of New Brunswick voted to establish official provincial bilingualism. Bilingualism at the Federal level exists in all provinces. Crying over spilled milk doesn’t garner much sympathy from me, they got what they asked for. Vote it out, but good luck with that.
With regards to busing it may not be efficient but we have more than one school board so each looks after the need of its students separately. Nothing has changed in that regard. The separate school board is a model of efficiency compared to the public system.
Those flags are to create an illusion of more french than English,somewhat like a dog marking its territory
Debbie,you are correct to criticize segregated busing when it is a deliberate policy to separate the two linguistic groups (French from the non-French) with the underlying principle that French will be assimilated into the stronger English-language community. This speaks to the inherent fact that French is a very weak language that only stays relevant when it is protected, promoted and preserved at tax-payers’ expense. It is on life-support and must be given such support or it dies. This is a pity but it is not our duty to protect a dying language – if the French-speakers want their language & culture to be vibrant, they have to do it themselves and not force everybody in Canada to do it for them. This policy was put into the 1982 Constitution by a French PM who was only interested in looking after his own “tribe” and the result is that billions are spent giving the French a special status that is artificial and divisive. In the meantime, Canada is having to deny health-care services to many Canadians because we are broke (both federally, provincially & in all the municipalities. Western Separatism is growing – trust me on this one!!!
I go by on the 417 going to Cornwall every so many months and I haven’t noticed any Franco/Ontario flag in Casselman or anywhere. Maybe it is because I just don’t look for it at all. Casselman is very French and always was and so are the other little towns like Alexandria, Alfred, and so many others. Here in Ottawa there are plenty of Francophones but I don’t think that I came across that flag. The one that I am familiar with the most is our Canadian flag and yes people sure dessicrate the flag and its meaning. New Brunswick is quite francophone but the vast majority speak English but they want to preserve their identity. Look up the history of the Acadian people and you will learn a great deal and the same with the French of Québec and don’t be narrow minded find out why they are the way they are.
Mary, the village of Cassleman 83% French speaking. Dogs marking their their territory? Now, that’s a classy comment for sure.
Wish there was an edit option.
The village of Cassleman is 83% French speaking.
This discrimination is going way to far, let’s get the rights of the people back to equal for everybody!!!! We are all humans, not historical figurines on a shelf! White, black, english, French, russian, Chinese, Native American. We are all the same and should all be treated equal, not giving special rights to one person and not the others!!!!!!
Good Afternoon Jules, The Franco Ontario Banner can be seen from 417 with size approx. 20 feet by 40 feet at the French school board, University of Ottawa and numerous other government entities(keep in mind the majority pays for the minorities right to dominate the landscape with the banner through taxes).
To those who agree with Segregation in any form, it is not acceptable, but its still practiced in numerous provinces based on language. It was legislated and practiced in the deep south based on color, now here in Canada its based on cultural identity.
How does multiculturalism work when cultural identity is greatly sponsored by government for one culture, yet not the other many cultures who helped build this great nation?
Matt. What special rights?
This message is for David Oldham, I’m originally from New Brunswick, and believe me; the folks of New Brunswick has never voted to have the province officially bilingual. Back in 1969, Premier Robichaud with lots of support from Pierre Trudeau had declared the province to be officially bilingual. In the beginning, it was to provide bilingual services at government offices for their clients and it had snowballed from there; to having some places being “French Only” to be spoken ! – never mind that there’s many English folks living in those same places !! Not sure of the status for today, but the majority of the folks – 70% are English and have requested many times over the years to have a referendum on these language issues and have been denied every time.
Hi Christopher Cameron don’t make yourself scarce I missed your posts. I am going down to Cornwall on May 7 so I am going to look for that French flag since we travel on highway 417. One day when my super was doing some work in our apartment he mentioned about Casselman being French and I knew that they had a high number of francophones but didn’t know about that flag. I will give it a good look. Tell Debbie to come on as well I miss your posts and Debbie’s and your brother in Timmins. About Ottawa University it is very francophone. Our friend Robert who died a few years ago his daughters go there and the eldest girl did as well and their studies are all in French. There are studies in English of course but it is very francophone. I will have to look for that flag when going by the university. Thanks for pointing that out to me.
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Your welcome Jules. The francophone community in Cornwall has on numerous occasions have been pushing council to have a 20×40 foot flag and 80 foot pole but council have not agreed to it YET. It would certainly have many feel alienated.
Furtz :answer JOBS. David McGuinty even admitted so on the Standard Freeholder article of him visiting le Herritage.
Matt -well said we are all equal under God ,but not under Canadian language Legislation.
I’ve been happily living in Canada, including Quebec, for 67 years as an Anglo with very limited French. Never had a problem finding employment, or getting services in English. And I don’t get all apoplectic at the sight of green flags or bilingual signs. Is there something wrong with me? Should I be seeking help? Sorry folks, but I can’t imagine being perpetually pissed off about living in a country that has two official languages. Life is way too short for that BS.
I wonder if that rude woman still works at the Timmins post office. Did Cory ever recover from that horrible ordeal, or did he develop PTSD? She spoke to him in French didn’t she? Should be jail time for that!
Karen Harris I am happy to read that you are from New Brunswick. Just lately I happen to have fallen on an article somewhere on the net where people were voting about having French signs only in New Brunswick especially Moncton. Moncton is a place that I would love to live but I sure would not want to go to a place that wants to separate from the country and that includes Alberta because they too are not happy. All this has to do with not wanting to lose their culture which is unique because there is no other like it. The French are caught in an Anglophone continent except for Mexico which is Spanish. A lot of the world speaks French and the business language is English.
Well said Furtz… I am in full agreement with you.. My goodness French is only a language folks…And no to segregation.
Well Furtz you are an anomaly .I have met and talked with thousands who are negatively effected by bilingual legislation.
Its not about being pissed off about two official languages ,it’s about fair treatment and equity for the majority of people!
If you are to believe their rights are BS perhaps you would be welcomed in a fascist state somewhere else .
I have many friends who range wide in the cultural diversity that is Canada and are immigrants who escaped marginalism only to find it here in Canada.
Many from India who compare our bilingual policies as similar to India’s cast system: If you belong to a particular ethnic group you have rights and privilege’s beyond that of the majority. None are so blind as those who refuse to see the reality to legislated discrimination through language laws. Are we not all equal? Should not all cultures be accorded as equal status? Or should the defense of one come at the cost of the others?
United Nations has castigated Canada on numerous occasions for their unfair language laws ,but clearly defense of ONE culture should come at the cost of others rights.
Life is too short to not make a stand when you see inequity.
Have you EVER stood up against inequity Furtz?
Considering your real name is not posted and you have anonymity I highly doubt that you would put it on the line for your principle’s !But I digress, you are here for entertainment through antaganism and not others rights.
Furtz as I have said “you are here for entertainment through antagonism and not others rights “.Your last posting only confirms this with others.
Was it entertainment for you to antagonize those who wanted equality in the deep south as well?
Perhaps that postal worker should be reprimanded as would happen if she had spoken in English in Quebec -The language Nazis could fine her perhaps, even have the St.Jean Baptist society harrass her. But that’s acceptable in the protection of a language right?
Four school boards operating their own bus systems is not about segregation. It’s about the school boards protecting their territory, nothing more, nothing less. Trying to get two school boards to agree on a solution (funding, scheduling, etc.) to amalgamation of their transportation systems would be a miracle. Getting four school boards to agree would be unheard of.
Christopher, I’ve said this before many times and will once again. I agree that there may be a problem with unfair hiring practices based on language in some institutions. That’s a legitimate concern and it should be addressed. However, when your cause gets sidetracked by asinine whining and chewing about the sight of green flags, bilingual road signs, being spoken to in French, etc, people can only laugh. Can’t you see that? When your bilingual brother went all ape-sh!t a few years ago because he was spoken to in French in the Timmins post office, he looked like an absolute fool, and set the cause for fair hiring practices back by a mile. It’s quite simple really. Stick with legitimate issues if you want to be taken seriously.
I like Furtz. I find he brings a unique perspective to a lot of things. At times I find Chris and Debbie’s perspective warped to get their unrealistic expectations across.
Hugger I think some people might have that perspective about some of your posts, or Jules, or even mine. They do bring them with their own names and frankly I don’t think people should be making statements like that as I think they’re quite personal. While you may have a good reason to post with a pseudonym and are registered and grand-fathered I think that kind of post is a bit abusive.
Sorry but I can’t agree. I find some of the things that Chris and Debbie post about too far from reality. When you begin to accept that sometimes you don’t always get what you want then you can move on to things that are truly changeable. The comment was not personal in nature, even if some choose to see it that way.
Hugger here’s the thing. You don’t “have to post” to every comment or story you don’t like. If you recall the terms of posting anonymously you cannot make personal attacks. Many people didn’t want grand-fathered user id’s on CFN so I’d ask you to respect that. You can challenge the idea or principle, but please no comments that might be considered personal attacks.
Thanks
Would it have been better if I said “some people’s perspective warped?” I think you know by know how I do things, I call them as I see them.
Hugger, Furtz and folks the Camerons are entitled to their opinions and I find it very interesting and educational at the same time. I do agree with them about a lot of jobs are shut out to Anglophones and this is the truth. Even hospital jobs and in doctors and lawyers offices as secretaries, etc. you have to be bilingual. In order to work at Ottawa City Hall the same thing you have to be bilingual. Of course no doubt about it the federal government has been bilingual for as long as I can remember. Hugger you need to calm down and we are rarely ever in agreement and that is where those gold stars come in when you and I agree on something. The Camerons are very good people and I like to see them here and yes we differ like everyone. If we all agreed it would be mighty boring.
Jamie one more thing on the subject of bilingualism and I will tell you what happened to my eldest sisters who are in their 80′ now. Back in the 50’s in Cornwall you had to be bilingual and all they were were Anglophones who took basic French at CCVS. My eldest sister who was an RN and administrative supervisor in Cornwall in the mid and late 60’s used her basic French every so often. It was a must back then so imagine what it is like today. This is not something that I have fabricated. Mom threw me into a French school because of what my much older sisters went through and believe me it wasn’t easy but I got through it and I never had problems getting work in my young days. Today there are way too many people and the competition is that much more in demand and mighty stiff. People come over from other countries and some only have French and you are expected to communicate with them in French. I can go on and on but I will stop here. The Camerons have very good points to offer.
If people think that discrimination just shows its ugly head in language issues they are sorely mistaken. As an average white male I have seen it numerous times, usually when it comes to hiring in the federal PS. On numerous occasions I was told straight out not to apply for competitions as they were aiming for visible minorities / women to get their numbers up. On other occasions the competition poster was worded in such a way to weed out the average white male. To anyone who thinks discrimination or bullying is going to disappear keep on dreaming it isn’t going to happen. The federal government will continue to bend to Quebec and others out of fear of losing votes. It will never end!!
Bilingualism is fine, so is being an Anglophone. I have no issues with anyone being either. When I’m being served or looked after it doesn’t matter to me their linguistic skills or skin. I just want someone who knows their job and does it well.
I sure do know what Hugger is talking about the minorities taking over our jobs in government etc. I once mentioned here (I don’t know if Jamie published it) but we had to sign forms saying what nationality and race that we belonged to and it was a feeling like the deep south of the US and the fight between our Canadians like what divided the US. I was bad enough in the late 60’s and early 70’s with the FLQ and this isn’t going to stop. I am all for bilingualism but when it gets down deeper to culture and race then it becomes a danger. Pierre Trudeau made a huge boondoggle of a mess for Canada and multiculturalism doesn’t work – I know because I see it every day – boy do I see it I have an example here in my own household.
Furtz ;I do not have a issue with French people as I am one ,but my problem is with government legislation creating inequity.
With regards to my Brother Cory the postal worker is to serve customers in language of their choice. Cory was speaking English and 3 times he was attempting on communicating in English, she chose not to address him in English for her own choice not the customers.
Hugger; we are in contact through social media groups across the country. This allows the opportunity to get a grasp on how bilingual policies have negatively effected each region. In New Brunswick the Minister of Education refuses to bus English and French children together in fear of French assimilation to English and states the Charter of rights guarantee’s their protection. Yes the charter of rights is being used to permit segregation.
I can certainly appreciate the issue with hiring based on minority status been through it. When I recently graduated from High school with Honours I was considering the OPP and remember in the newspaper Job posting looking for OPP applicants and on the bottom it said “white males need not apply”.I completely disagree on hiring based on ethnicity ,it should be based on Merit and education .Now what would be said if it had said white males only? I would still disagree ,the government should not be basing hiring on color,sex or ethnicity but then again our Government is the biggest discriminator and practices this daily. There is much more to the discriminatory legislation of bilingualism beyond Cornwall as I can Honestly say I have talked to thousands of people negatively effected by this legislation and it only has created division.
As I said Christopher, you have to focus on the main issue of unfair hiring practices, if that is your main issue. It’s called discipline. Getting all bent out of shape and distracted by rude postal workers, green flags, bilingual signs, etc, will get you and your cause nowhere. I’m surprised that you haven’t figured that out after years of farting in a windstorm.
Christopher….The bilingualism policies across Canada, both governmental and other, are a mess. There is no consistency. I think that is a major part of the problem. Can it be fixed? I seriously doubt it, its too messed up now and any attempts to fix it, I feel, will just make the situation worse.
Chris I understand you fully now and before I thought that it was just language. I do know that you, Debbie and Cory are excellent nurses and the language is holding you back somewhat. This goes beyond the language itself. Take a good look at all the nurses hired from Québec and there are plenty of bilingual nurses here in Ontario. I can tell you that back in the late 80’s I did medical transcription and never took the course before and was thrown into a military hospital here in Ottawa to do that job along with others. There are terminologies in French besides English and yes all is based on Latin and Greek words and there were only two girls in that unit who typed it out in French. Can you imagine the situation for nurses. Chris there are plenty of mighty qualified people who cannot find work. My daughter is bilingual and working as a store clerk (cashier) just now and is mighty depressed. She is thinking about going back to school and has been thinking about it more and more lately in a college level not university.
Karen Harris the liberal premier, Louis Robichaud whom the good people of N.B. voted in and were aware of his stand successfully plead a case for New Brunswick to adopt official bilingualism on a provincial level. In 1969 the house unanimously passed the act of parliament.
An act of parliament can be repealed. It was voted in and therefore be voted out. That is democracy. Democracy in turmoil is not representative of the failure of the government but rather the apathy of its people. The people forget that they are the government, they are ultimately in control and that unity of purpose is the basic concept of democracy.
Furtz: Discriminatory hiring practices is just one symptom of a great many with regards to bilingualism.
As for the Franco /Ontario banner ask yourself this :Is there any other cultures out of the 200+ cultures in Ontario that have this type of Government sponsorship?
Hugger: Yes it is a mess. With a meeting I had with then Official languages Minister James Moore he even stated that it had been a failing policy for a long time. Problem is that its an entrenched Bureaucratic Entity that’s intent on self preservation for the princely sum of 2.4 billion spent yearly.
Jules: Yes many staff who work in our Cornwall Community Hospital are not from the community not even from this province. CCH management had admitted under questioning that they test professionally for French and not for English ,yet the hospital operates in English. Why not test both equally if you want equitable hiring?In Ottawa 40000 cars cross over from Quebec to work in Ontario daily ,due to their ability to speak French …as English requirements are not very high.
Jules: Thanks for the response. People during the 80’s thought of bilingualism as a good thing as service was to be provided in language of choice for customers…..But it morphed into now Staff have the right in dealing with management in their own language which required French speaking supervisors then French speaking management and so on .It was no longer was about providing government services but ensuring hiring of French speakers through the entire bureaucracy.
David: Problem is it’s entrenched and Voter has limited input other then to vote on a political party.A true democracy would allow referendums with voter input rather then a political parties agenda. Our country needs to utilize referendums and promote voter involvement on policies that effect us daily .Perhaps then voter apathy would not be at an all time high.
Referendums on ;Assisted suicide ,Abortion, Marijuana Legalization and Bilingualism just to name a few of many Societal issues .But then again Governments do not like having the voter have the power of choice.
Buses going by kids from one school only to also drive by their school, is a symptom within our government policies. With the official languages act in place for over 40 years, is it not time to review it, and all of the associated regulations and funding?
Sure it is! We need to know if policies are helping or hurting, are we getting value for the money spent. What is the impact and too who?
Because language has become political with special interest groups crying the most, little will change. New Brunswick is now seeing French only institutions and others are bilingual. The 65% plus English there better start making more noise.
Can you not see Ontario going this way too?
Oh and those franco ontario flags, there are about 15 as part of a wide monument project. The land is usually taxpayer owned, much of the funding comes from government, which is you the taxpayers.
Some of the funding is also donated from schools and hospitals. Every year you fill out your taxes and see the extra amount going to health premiums should make you wonder where the money goes. Some of it went to buy a monument, not health care or education.
David Oldham wrote “whom the good people of N.B. voted in and were aware of his stand”
We often have some level of awarness of where a person sits on issue, truly understanding what could mean can be very different.
Bilingualism has taken on a life of it’s own in New Brunswick that is affecting people’s lives and ability to pay.