CORNWALL Ontario – Council decides whether accept a report from management and decide on September 22, 2014 to foot the bill and add fluoride to our drinking water or not.
With the new treatment plant upgrade costs could be steep while many in the public are demanding an end to the adding of these chemicals to our water.
Currently no Flouride is being added to Cornwall drinking water and it will cost between $250-$300K to upgrade plus about $50K per year in costs to administer.
While it should seem like a no brainer this is the Kilger council we are talking about.
Video below of Anti-Fluoride protest in front of City Hall.
CFN asked all of the declared candidates for a comment for publication.
Candidate Rony Macarone stated:
I would like to see the fluoride out of the public drinking water supply.
This is a substance that has no proof of any health/dental benefit at all via ingestion.
From candidate Gary Samler:
Fluoride is a highly toxic corrosive substance that can cause a range of adverse health effects over long time usage. Adding these chemicals to our water system is unsafe, unnatural and unnecessary
There is no scientific proof that adding fluoride to our public water system is in any way effective. I will work to support any safe water campaign.
Eating healthy and brushing your teeth after meals will benefit our health and environment more than adding dangerous chemicals to our water. Gary W. Samler
Candidate for Mayor Jamie Gilcig added:
What do you think dear CFN viewers? You can post your comments below and please vote in our poll.
Previous Fluoride stories on CFN: LINK
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“Fluoridation of community drinking water is a major factor responsible for the decline in dental caries (tooth decay) during the second half of the 20th century. The history of water fluoridation is a classic example of clinical observation leading to epidemiologic investigation and community-based public health intervention. Although other fluoride-containing products are available, water fluoridation remains the most equitable and cost-effective method of delivering fluoride to all members of most communities, regardless of age, educational attainment, or income level.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAXwv7j_jbY
It seems the HTML Tag didn’t work right for the first link i tried to post, from which that long blurb in quotes is sourced:
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm4841a1.htm
So Nate are you for Fluoride?
fluoride is quickly going the way of the dodo bird, mercury fillings, asbestos, and ddt.
60% of canadians and 98% of europeans are not ingesting this poison.
Water fluoridation should absolutely be continued, as it has been shown to be effective in reducing the rates of dental cavities. All of the people dismissing it because it is a “corrosive substance” or a poison fail to understand that it is only dangerous at levels far above what is added to the water supply. The cornerstone principle of toxicology is that dose matters above everything, and in low doses fluoride is beneficial and not dangerous.
You nailed it Amy. The mass medication of the population, whether they need it or not, will become a thing of the past, I hope. I’m glad to be on my own private well where nobody can dump medications into it.
Pretty much all tooth decay problems can be eliminated with decent nutrition, regular brushing, and the cutting out of high sugar garbage like pop and fruit juice. It ain’t rocket science.
@ Nate. Penicillin was discovered in 1928 and has saved millions of lives. Do you suggest that everyone should get a shot of it annually?
@ Bob. Fluoxetine, also known as Prozac, has been shown to be effective in reducing anxiety and mental distress of various types. Would you be up for getting small doses of Prozac in your drinking water?
@Furtz No I would not, the difference being that dental problems can directly lead to dangerous medical problems like infections, in the average person anxiety and general mental distress are not the kinds of things that can directly lead to a person’s death. Fluoride should be viewed more as a supplement, the same way we have common foods fortified with calcium or Vitamin D to prevent deficiencies.
@Bob – But even you who acknowledges it as beneficial might agree that treating our water (at significant cost) is redundant in the age of 2 for a dollar tubes of toothpaste on sale at Costco? EOHU will have the next decade to observe the results of ending fluoridation of Cornwall’s water supply. Decay rates probably won’t change.
Okay Bob, I’ll try again. As I stated before, pretty much all tooth decay problems can be eliminated with decent nutrition, regular brushing, and the cutting out of high sugar garbage like pop and fruit juice. It ain’t rocket science. And you are saying that everybody should be medicated because some people don’t eat healthily and don’t brush their teeth? Sorry Bob, but this mass medication is in no way acceptable and will soon be history.
You don’t happen to work for Shanghai Polymet Commodities Ltd, do you?
what does the amercian dental association have to say about fluoridated water being used to make baby formula? “breast is best, blah blah blah”. and then they recommend as a second choice that the infant formula be mixed with fluoride free water.
this is because fluoride causes the dental enamel is be deformed, making the teeth chalky and easily stained (cah-ching for dentists providing bleaching treatments). dental fluorosis affects 40% of the youth in the states, and at least 16% of kids here in canada. unfortunately, not everyone has access to fluoride free water for their infant. getting a reverse osmosis system costs hundreds of dollars to purchase, and then hundreds for the annual filters and added water expense (it wastes something like 90% of the water).
also, bc and quebec don’t use fluoride, yet no increase in dental caries (when compared to fluoridated provinces). bc actually has less caries.
Bob, fluoride is not a nutrient or supplement by ANY stretch of the imagination. there is NO such thing as a fluoride deficiency.
I love how it was quoted that 60% of Canadians and 98% of Europeans don’t have fluoride in their water. I’m no scientist so I’m not really arguing for or against but have you seen the average European’s teeth? ewwww…
There is the question of ethics. Forget the semantics of whether or not the industrial ‘by-product’ used in water fluoridation is or is not considered medication or a supplement. We each have the right to informed consent regarding the medications or nutritional supplements we ingest. Water fluoridation strips us of that right. Once fluoride is added to the water supply, it is virtually impossible to escape. While some people can avoid some of the fluoride, some of the time many groups can’t, for example children, low income people, invalids, boarders, hospital patients etc, can’t avoid any. According to the Universal Declaration on Bioethics and Human Rights “In no case should a collective community agreement or the consent of a community leader or other authority substitute for an individual’s informed consent.”
Case histories and peer reviewed research shows that fluoride can cause harm even at low levels. People can experience toxicity symptoms from drinking fluoridated water or using fluoride tablets. Symptoms include neurological problems, headaches, skin irritation, gastrointestinal pain and symptoms (nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea, constipation) urticaria, pruritus, stomatitis, chronic fatigue, joint pains, and polydipsia (Waldbott 1956, 1958, Feltman 1956, Feltman and Kosel 1961, Grimbergen 1974, Petraborg 1977, Spittle 2008, reviewed by NRC 2006). Patients were often unaware that their drinking water contained fluoride. Symptoms improved with avoidance of fluoridated water and returned with consumption of fluoridated water or with experimental challenge with fluoride and confirmed by double blind testing. Doctors aren’t trained to suspect fluoride, so patients may be treated for side effects when all that is needed, is avoidance of fluoridated water.
The Feltman and Kosel study was published in the Journal of Dental Medicine and received funding from the US Public Health Service, Department of Health Education and Welfare, Washington DC.
For those of you who are unsure about fluoride and don’t have much time, do a search for the online video “Professional Perspectives on Water Fluoridation”. It’s 28 min long and really well worth watching. It features a Nobel Laureate in Medicine, scientists from the National Research Council review on fluoride as well as dentists and doctors.
We were warned in a 2006 study by Dr. Elise Bassin, DDS, Harvard University, published in a cancer journal, “Cancer Causes Control.” May 2006. It shows a fivefold increase in bone cancer in young people who have consumed fluoride in their drinking water.
See http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16596294
Another PubMed scientific publication shows that fluoride concentration in drinking water correlates with uterine cancer.
“A significant positive correlation was found between fluoride concentration in drinking water and uterine cancer mortality in 20 municipalities.”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9002384
@Marc
do you know who has really bad teeth in europe?? the irish has the highest level of dental caries. and guess who’s the 2% who are fluoridated? the irish.
also while on the topic of ireland, they have a 1 in 100 (about the same as canada and the states) autism rate. the rest of europe is 1 in 10,000.
I can see why people use the “forced medication” perspective to argue against fluoridation, and I respect that argument. However people arguing against fluoride saying it is a poison or industrial waste simply are ignoring the chemistry and toxicology involved.
@ Amy G I see fluoride as being a supplement rather than a medication simply by definition:
Supplement: something that completes or enhances something when added
Medication: a substance used for medical treatment
Fluoride enhances the tooth enamel, acting as a supplement. As for whether cavity prevention constitutes medical treatment, that is for our lawmakers to consider and debate (as city council will hopefully do).
And in fact Quebec does have 15.8% more cavities in the 12-19 age group, according to Statistics Canada. Whether that is due to no water fluoride, or simply poor dental hygiene is hard to determine.
Bob, the dissociation argument is not valid when it comes to adding fluoride to a city’s water. because our water is not pure. the dissociation only works in pure water. fluoride is reactive (which is why pure fluorine is NEVER found in nature). Medical geologist Heather Gingerich (from Ingersoll) has some info online that explains this problem.
and it doesn’t ‘enhance’ the tooth enamel in children with developing teeth. it causes deformaties in the enamel. there’s a good video featuring dr Hardy Limeback that details this.
the the quebec stats, in a different age group, it was only 3% more cavities.
the only benefactors are the dentists who make more money on fluorosis victims.
This is the most intelligent conversation I’ve read on CFN. We need more discourse like this. Good job CFN readers.
“Admin says:
September 8, 2014 at 12:09 pm
So Nate are you for Fluoride?”
I support low level, such as the standard few ppm of fluoride being added to drinking water.
Fluoride poisoning is real, is dangerous, and has significant long term heath effects, however equating a few ppm in drinking water to serious effects, such as say Cornwall island’s farming community, is like saying that no one should have vitamin b12, no one should ever get a dental xray, no none should ever get a mammogram, since all of these things in excess also have sever negative effects.
Just because something is dangerous in large amounts does not mean the danger linearly scales down. Many things follow logarithmic or exponential curves.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXHwmzCr_0o
There was a bizarre coincidence at Cornwall City Council meeting on Sept 8 . . . . Council being asked to vote in support of a dental initiative that the Ontario government is expected fund . . . and then the fluoride issue pertaining to Cornwall’s water treatment plant is on the same agenda. The coincidence suggests that somebody was quite skilled at manipulating the political system to get a favourable vote from city council . . . . and all connected with the agenda are naturally totally innocent of any kind politically mischievous behaviour. (How dare some one even suggest something like this ??)
The people are so loaded up with fluoride that they don’t know what they are talking about. It is all connected with the dumbing down of society.
Here’s a simple solution to all this BS. Let people like Bob and Nate who want to consume fluoride, or any other medication, do so. And at the same time, respect the rights of the people who don’t want to consume fluoride or any other medication. Problem solved.
I am not surprised there is very little hype in Cornwall over this issue. First @ Bob get your head out from your ass, by the time the fluoride actually gets to your mouth less then 5% is used in human consumption the rest ends up in our sink for dishes, laundry, toilets etc. then down into our river systems. Is it really worth it? you will say yes because you must be Dr. Paul or an associate. There are numerous ways for proper oral health and the health unit will have you believe this is necessary, this is only a political agenda between our corrupt Mayor and Dr. Paul himself. No one gives two cents about the workers and the concerns it raises at the plant, no one. There are a few on this council who will never go against what the Mayor dictates them to do, you just have to look who sat or sits on the EOHU board that in itself spells out the outcome, regardless how much this will cost tax payers. Brush your teeth and eat healthy, there is no excuse. NONE. This is just another bit of proof that the Mayor does not and I mean does not care for it’s citizens, the millions he has deceived us from is corruption is reprehensible. Cornwall, you get what you deserve, you bitch and complain but have no balls to stand up and shout or make change. Upwards of $300.000.00 plus annual operating cost for something not required, wow. @ Harry Valentine, you are correct, that is what is happening. Dr. Paul, {MODERATED} and just like our most corrupt Mayor in history, disgusting to push this on everyone. Spending millions on upgrades is not full proof, one workers life should count for something, ask yourself if your son or daughter was working there and they had theses concerns, would you support him or her or kick them in the teeth just the same?
I agree with Trailblazer and to handle the fluoride that goes in the water is dangerous. Bare Ass is the most corrupt and dangerous mayor in history and that is the truth. I have seen mayors come and go but this one is a huge disgrace. It is in your hands folks and if you vote this jerk back in then you deserve what you get. I do not trust those at the polls because I know what happens at elections whether by hand or machine. If Bare Ass gets in and I said it many times before even now I am not optimistic for Cornwall after what I read yesterday – you can kiss Cornwall goodbye. Everything lies in your hands. The best thing also is to get rid of the Barney Fife PD and put in an OPP for all small communities like what Furtz said earlier. I am off topic a bit but I have to stress that this is of most important. Cornwall is all in your hands and believe me I don’t trust Bare Ass anymore than I can pick him up and throw him. Don’t tempt me.
@ Trailblazer. Not sure if I’d take the argument that far, but I agree that it has taken on an almost fanatical (religious) tone. A few people claim to know “the truth” and want to foist that “truth” (fluoride) on everyone. Nate should have some insight on my observation.
So Furtz, the solution is to run two seperate systems, one with flouride and one without?
No Hugger. The solution is to supply safe clean drinking water to the population, and let those who want to consume fluoride, or any other medication, get their medications from another source. Pretty simple, really.
Sorry, no. It isn’t as you say simple. If it was that simple would municipalities around the world be having this debate?
I suppose it isn’t so simple as long as a few fanatics insist that everybody should be forced to take the medication. In the meantime, municipalities around the world are slowly coming to their senses and stopping the nonsense. As I said above, this argument has reached an almost religious fanatical level. You claim to know “the truth”, therefore everyone should drink the medicine whether they agree with you or not. Sound familiar?
Furtz I would be willing to bet your well water has more chemicals in it than Cornwall water. Just look at the truck loads of animal waste farmers are allowed to spray on fields Huge vehicles with long arms filled with chemicals spray all the fields around my rural home..the Raisin river is dank and dirty…This issue has you sounding like the rev trying to ram religion on us
take it easy man…go ride your bike
Only in Cornwall you say. Calgary dropped out of the fluoridation of the drinking water and people are living. Fluoride is what destroys the teeth and the dentists make gold on people’s decayed teeth. The entire system deteriorates because of fluoride. Cornwall is not like other cities and towns it is way behind any other. What goes on in Cornwall you do not see it elsewhere.
Not so with my wells Melman. They are nowhere near any cultivated fields and well away from my barns and cattle. They have tested fine every year for over thirty years. And my position on mass medication is quite the opposite of ramming anything on anyone. Let those who want to medicate go ahead, but don’t force it an everyone.
Just got back from a lovely rip on the Ninja. Life is good.
Some communities have already removed fluoride from the water. No one should be forced to drink this in their water.
It should be removed. And for the concern about the well water, well water can be tested any time at the EOHU, or it used to be.
Having been on a well the water was tested to make certain is was quality and drinkable.
Regardless, industry always has a way of tweaking statistics to their advantage re: fluoride, of course they will tell you it is safe! Why not, they will gain you may become ill. Do you think they care, really, not!
Much like the tobacco industry who pumped trillions into advertising campaigns enticing people to smoke up a storm, even to the point of using Doctors in their adds and presenting to the public a lifestyle that was society approved. It took time but people, Doctors and others finally woke up, but millions died horrid deaths and premature deaths due to the deadly cancer causing compounds in tobacco/cigarette smoke.
Did industry go the bedside of the ill, suffering and those dying of cancer and lung disease. No, of course not and will industry be there when people become ill from fluoride in their water. No.
Remove it. Save lives.
Not only animal waste. I remember when we lived in Cornwall and Domtar was still in operation, truck loads of human waste from Domtar were brought to farmers fields to be sprayed and you talk about us being sick driving at the back of that truck. That was to be sprayed in the farmers fields and if people had some disease God help everyone. If any of that got into well water then that would surely be contaminated. I have seen many of those trucks going by to be brought to farms around Cornwall. Wells have to be inspected by the health board.
Municipalities have had this debate and that is why some people understood the issue and voted to remove it from their community drinking water.
This should be a no brainer! I am with Furtz on this one.
We have enough toxic chemicals in our life, we don’t need fluoride.
While we are at it, let’s remove the fluoride and some of the people who think it is so great for us to ingest.
Why should we be forced to drink fluoride?
Time for fluoride and a few others to make an exit!
Maybe they should try drinking some good quality well water instead. It is quite refreshing and wonderful.
Melman….agree 100%
Furtz, I am not a fan or fanatic of flouride. If it’s in the water I’ll continue to drink the water. If it isn’t in the water I’ll continue to drink the water. And when did I claim to know “the truth?”
I guess we’ll know what is what on September 22. That’s when council is to vote on this. Hopefully this issue can be decided on once and for all. Unless, of course, the new city council decides to open this can of worms again.
The Council of Canadians
Acting for Social Justice
http://www.canadians.org/fr/node/5953
So Jules…..Cornwall is unique you say? Corruption and other problems don’t happen in other cities? Tell the residents of Montreal and surrounding cities that. Sorry, but what happens in Cornwall (& I’m not talking about Project Truth) happens in all cities. It is just magnified in Cornwall due to its size.
Hugger we were talking about all the corruption going on in Cornwall and what Parkinson did just lately along with Bare Ass and like my husband said in other towns and cities they would not accept any of this going on at all. If there was a real people in Cornwall they would have them hanging from the lamp posts and beat them. This is unreal and has made me very sick and that is no joke. What you have running Cornwall I would like to say the words here but when I said it before Jamie didn’t post it but I can tell you that this is criminal. I am getting to the point now that I am saying the hell with everything and that I hope that Canada burns. I am sick of all the corruption and everything else.
@ Hugger. You have been strongly in favour of fluoride in public drinking water for quite some time now. Who the hell are you to insist that everyone should be forced to take the medication just because you think it’s good? To me, that’s a pretty fanatical outlook, quite similar to religious fanaticism. Obviously, your opinion is firmly set, and will not be changed.
Jules, you might be interested in reading all of the following.
September 2011:
National Collaborating Centre for Environmental Health,
Air Quality and Community Health Impact of Animal Manure Management.
One Who Cares thank you I just wrote it down and now I will look it up and read it.
One Who Cares thank you. I just read this and very interesting indeed. When my husband was a child he used to keep pidgeons with his older brother on the roof of their apartment building in Beirut and their mom told them that they had to get rid of the pidgeons because of their manure that was dangerous for health. I knew about pigs being a health hazard but I didn’t know so much about cows and horses, etc. I knew about different fertilizers like liquid and solid but I can say that this really opened my eyes on a lot of things. Thank you so much for sending me the article. I even bookmarked it. Again thanks.
Furtz…just because I am in favour of fluoride in the water does not mean that I believe people should be forced to take medication. I guess it could be a difference of opinion of “forced medication” as you call it. I guess we agree to disagree because we are both firm in what we believe in. And I am about done discussing this topic.
Jules…as I said before there is corruption in every city. Cornwall is not unique in that. For you to imply Cornwall is the only city with corruption and Cornwall’s situation is unique is quite laughabale.