Language Fairness for All Stands in Solidarity for Anglophone Quebec Canadians against Bill 14’s Double-standard
We as Canadians consider ourselves a fair and just society and often through diplomatic and military measures encourage and or enforce fair treatment of oppressed people abroad.
With our fair and just society promoting people’s rights abroad, why has our country permitted Quebec’s Bill 14 and its human rights violations?
Bill 14 is basically Bill 101 on steroids and its’extensive 33 pages of amendments of the French Language Charter and and Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms, is a slap in the face to people who believe in fairness.
I had the great opportunity to go to Montreal on Sunday Feb 17 and attend the protest rally against Bill 14 and meet many patriotic Quebec Canadians.
The rally drew approximately 400 people, many with signs denouncing Bill 14 and its potential impact on society. To me this was a proud moment when people stood up for their rights.
These people love their province but not the politics of the present government and their policies of division through language policies. Discrimination was a word frequently heard at the rally.
To those who, like me until recently, do not know the impact of Bill 14, I will address a small portion of these three areas: Human Rights, Education, Employers.
HUMAN RIGHTS:
UNDER THE CHARTER OF THE FRENCH LANGUAGE -PREAMBLE
“Whereas the National Assembly intends to pursue this objective in a spirit of fairness and open-mindedness, respectful of the institutions of the English-speaking community of Québec, and respectful of the ethnic minorities, whose valuable contribution to the development of Québec it readily acknowledges”
Bill 14 changes “ETHNIC MINORITIES ” to Cultural communities -The changes may not seem like much but they are big changes.
Ethnicity and Minorities are defined under the Canadian charter of rights and under so their rights are covered .
#56-Whereas the rights and freedoms of the human person are inseparable from the rights and freedoms of others and from the common well-being-“AND FROM THE COMMON WELL- BEING “BILL 14 removes.
Under the QUEBEC CHARTER OF HUMAN RIGHTS
#10 Every person has a right to full and equal recognition and exercise of his human rights and freedoms, without distinction, exclusion or preference based on race, colour, sex, pregnancy, sexual orientation, civil status, age except as provided by law, religion, political convictions, language, ethnic or national origin, social condition, a handicap or the use of any means to palliate a handicap.
Please take special note with regards to equal recognition of ethnicity and language and without distinction,clearly having recognized one language and the oppression of the English language in Quebec violates more then one of the charter of human rights.
EDUCATION:
#58-Every person has a right, to the extent and according to the standards provided for by law, to free public education. Bill 14 amends at the end of this statement “every person has a right to receive such education in French”
-One must consider what is omitted here – So people do not have a right to receive an education in English?
#30 No Secondary Education or Diploma of College may be issued to a student who does not have a specified knowledge of spoken and written French as required by the minister of education.
#35 The professional orders shall not issue permits except to persons whose knowledge of the official language is appropriate to the practice of their profession with the completion of prescribed French courses.
Children’s enrollment in primary and secondary school must be in French unless proof is provided that one parent received their education in English only in the province of Quebec.
EMPLOYERS :
#47-An employer is PROHIBITED from requiring that a person have knowledge of a language other than French unless the nature of the person’s duties with the employer requires such knowledge.
#125.3-The employer must publicize the name of the person responsible for Francization within the enterprise as well and submit the linguistic situation analysis and reports and submit through ministers office forms.
#175-As part of inspection the person may examine any products goods labeling displays and take measurements to verify compliance.
Inspectors may require the production of any book, account, record, file or other documents for examination or for the purpose of making copies or extracts.
The inspector may seize anything which he or she believes on reasonable grounds may prove the commission of an offence under this act or the regulations.
#177-If the Office is of the opinion that this Act or a Regulation under this Act has been contravened, it shall refer the matter to the Director of CRIMINAL and Penal Prosecutions so that appropriate penal proceedings may be instituted where required.
This is but a few of the large number of stricter regulations put forward in bill 14.
I found this one comment to be very interesting and saw it a number of times -ref#32 ” The language policy shall specify the conditions and circumstances in which a language other than French may be used in accordance with the act, while emphasizing the importance of setting an example and of PREVENTING WIDESPREAD INSTITUTIONAL BILINGUALISM.”
In closing, after the Rally I had the opportunity to video record three presenters who spoke at the rally and had the opportunity for a one on one.
The speakers in were:
Hugo Shebbeare of the Quebec Office Of The English Language:
Norbert Bedouch -media contact of unity group and V.P of Equality Party
Mark Bergeron -leader of the Equality Party
All three gave their perspective on the Bill 14 Rally and how since the Morois Separatist Government has been elected, many not-so-nice changes have occurred.
Some have given personal perspectives on their treatment. The videos will certainly provide better insight into how these proud Quebec Canadians feel and why they stand up against oppression. It was an honour for me to stand with them .
Take care my fellow Canadians
Christopher Cameron
(Comments and opinions of Editorials, Letters to the Editor, and comments from readers are purely their own and don’t necessarily reflect those of the owners of this site, their staff, or sponsors.)
peter wrote: But no one seems interested in doing anything concrete and practical to bring attention to our plight.
Question: Other then trying to get people to boycott, what have you done?
Just a reminder Peter……there is a big rally coming up in Ottawa. That should bring about big changes **smile**
What I have done, is not renew my golf membership at casselview GG in cassleman
I also was instrumental in having 4 of my friends do the same.
Each of these memberships are valued at $1700.00 + food and drink over a golf season. this amounts to about $3000.00 times four, or $12000
I have also contacted business associates to move golf tournments from cassleview to an English facility, falcon ridge or cedar hill.
This will further set back cassleview to the tune of $3000- $4000.00 more, per tournment.
I always support English only or non bilingual businesses and never, ever, volunteer, as I used to in hospitals, elderly institutions or any other community association that supports bilingualism .
In Ontario, we can, each one of us have our own bill 101’s in our own individual ways.
I am an avid supporter of FREE CHOICE here, meaning I do not wish to be told in what language I can put up a sign in, or be judged in employment soley on language, where experiece, education and interpersonal skills are not even considered.
i believe this is a very dangerous criteria, especially in the medical profession.
I’d like to know that my doctors are MEDICALLY qualified, as opposed to them knowing how to speak french, when they treat me, or anyone else.
having bilingualism as the primary criteria in medicine, leaves a lot of room for error, and I don’t want to put my life on the line having a so-called professional, being bilingual, but knowing nothing else.
Would you ?
I also would never, ever, shop at a jean cotu, after the way they disrespected the English in Alexandria.
I can go on, stella, or tony or whoever you are ,but I believe even you gets the picture
As the song says, “we have only just begun “
Peter, we need some kind of information campaign in many different communities that includes a speaking tour by a well known personality. Getting the word out will help people to be informed about purchases, much like I did with products that have French first labels. Hopes Beau’s Lug Tread never changes, I would miss that.
Of course, if there was some funding from Trillium, Heritage Canada and hundreds of other sources that currently provide hundreds of millions of dollars to Francophone groups, who knows. Something with the funding that really bites, is when you see a hospital or education agency providing funding to a Francophone event. We, the majority English taxpayers are obviously giving them more than they need!
Maybe people don’t do anything concrete against bilingualism (where need be) is because they understand that there are two official languages in Canada.
Eric,
The funding should Be allocated to numerous cultural groups including English.
Not for only one interest group as the taxpayers foot the bill it should be a universal funding formula as opposed to one cultural group.
In most societies that would be deemed discrimination ,but I digress discrimination is entrenched in our government and one particular province’s government.
It has been long thought that speaking up against forced bilingualism meant bigotry .
Many are realizing now that Quebec and its increasing violation of rights of cultures other then French shows where the bigotry truly exists.
For the protection of a language should not come at the cost of others rights,yet in Canada its excepted and enforced.
UNDER GOD WE ARE ALL EQUAL, UNDER CANADIAN LANGUAGE LAWS WE ARE NOT!
Pierre, until a person actually feels the discrimination, they just observe. 2 official languages does not mean most to all jobs need to be staffed bilingual. Please review some of the comments from other letters to get a feel for this subject from both sides.
Of course pierre, you are aware that quebec is still in Canada, however, there is no bilingulism there, right ?
Yet the majority of Canadians, some 28million pay for and keep quebec afloat.
If quebec chooses not to respect the English community , the majority in the country of Canada, why should any Canadian anywhere respect the concept of bilingualism, when quebec has outlawed the language of the majority ?
it simply makes no sense, regardless of how hard it is pushed by politicians
In my boycott of bilingual businesses and institutions, I have just given over $12000 of business to an English golf club, because they allow choice and have the utmost respect for both languages.
Bilingual facilities pushing french on an Ontario that wants choice is a non starter, especially when it comes to hiring.
Many of these facilities, hire based on language as the primary criteria, not education, experience and inter personal skills, so no, I and many others refuse to support them, and will not in the future.
@ Eric
Some people feel discrimination for no good reason as most anglophones earn a very good living in Canada and even in Québec, while most of them are unilingual.
Most jobs do not require bilingualism… Not even in the federal public service.
@ Peter
Wrong! There is lots of bilingualism in Québec.
There is more bilingualism in Québec than in any other province.
I can’t argue with the fact that Québec recieves equalisation payments except to say that equalisation has nothing to do with language and that 8 provinces (maybe 9) recieve equalisation. All of them, except Ontario, recieve more than Québec on a per capita basis.
It’s beyond my comprehension how anyone can say that refusing bilingualism is to show the utmost respect for both languages.
Not many Ontario facilities (guess you mean businesses) require bilingualism in their hiring practices… If they did, unemployment would be much higher.
Think about it.
Eric,
If there is a conserted effort by most anglophones in eastern Ontario, not to support, fund, donate or volunteer to any establishment, institution or business that supports bilingualism, this will hurt where it counts, in the pocketbook.
it has been my experience, that french value money, almost as much as language. Therefore this, will not only hurt financially, but could in effect lead to policy changes.
But if nothing else it is a start. I read here over and over again how English tax dolloars are being spent on francophone projects. That they ( francophones ) get grants and funding etc. while we ( anglophones ) , who are paying for the majotiry of these things have no say in how our money is being spent tax wise, and get no funding.
Well, we CAN control each of our inndividual spending regarding day to day purchases. We can also CHOOSE where we volunteer and who we support. This can be done . If enough of us do this and support and finances drop, questions will be asked, I am sure.
Take away all English volunteers in CCH and see what happens.
Boycott enough bilingual businesses and see the reaction , this hurts.
Hire Ontario contractors instead of quebec ones en masse, even if it is a little more expensive and see the results.
Casseleview will call me and my friends about not renewing our memberships.
My response will be, how come the majority of your employees are french in a province that is 92% English ?
How come servers always speak to us in french first and THEN go to English?
I am sure the falcon ridge GG and Cedar Hill will be gllad to get an additional $12000 + in business, and we can be treated as we should, with the respect a majority commands.
These are little things that can add up in a hurry.
As for Anglophones being uncomfortable about not volunteering or boycotting, remember the french didn’t hesitate for a second, when the shoe was on the other foot, and right across the board.
Let them or anyone else be critical of theses measures, we are fighting for the majoerity’s rights and the rights of all anglophones, to put an end to a forced bilingual society that no one wants , except governments that no longer care what the majority wants.
There is simply no justification for bilingualism and starting at the grass roots through boycotting and not supporting institutions or businesses that are in favor of this will certainly reap benefits.
Pierre,
Here are examples of quebec bilingualism. A paramedic refuses to speaak English in a medical emergency,for an English 2 year old, he can do this because the official language of the “province ” is french only. To hell with kid’s health, she is English right.
Under .0002% of quecbec government employees are English. in a province that has 1.1 million anglophones
From 1970 through to the present day, the Englsih school population of Montreal has dropped a staggering 70 %
This is courtesy of bill 101 , the most repressive anti- democratic law ever to be passed in any western jusisdiction.
it is illegal in quebec to post any outside signs in English, thereby depriving good honest taxpayers of promoting their business in the language of their choice. This is NOT bilingualism, this is a dictatorship
The bilingualism in quebec, is FORCED, and in business it is against the law, as the official language in business in quebec is french only, what was that you said about bilingualism in quebec ?
Businesses that have under 50 employees can have english on the inside of their establishments, but the lettering MUST be 50% smaller than the English lettering.
Talk about about a slap in the face. Are we to interrupt this as to mean the English in quebec are half as good as the french or half as stupid? You think about that sir ?
As for the rest of canada THERE IS NO RESTRICTION IN WHAT LANGUAGE A SIGN CAN BE DISPLAYED IN.
You want ot have a french sign in B.C. you can. A french sign in N.S. you can A french sign in Ontatio ,you can. There are no LANGUAGE POLICE RUNNING AROUND MAKING YOU DISPLAY AN ENGLISH SIGN ONLY OR ELSE???
As for the federal public service, ,i don’t know where you have been living these last 30 years, but you CANNOT GET ANY POSITION, of worth or management in the federal government unless you are BILINGUAL. This in a country that has only 27% of the population that is french and 23% of that number comes from quebec.
So in reality, outside of quebec there is only 4% of the population that is french ,yet a full 65% of the federal civil service positions are occupied by francophones, sir.
As for refusing bilingualism, you miss the point. Any one anywhere, except quebec of course, can speak, communicate, post in any language they wish.
What is at the heart of this is, FORCED BILINGUALISM , PARTICUALRLY WHEN IT COMES TO HIRING
There is not one iota of justification for bilingual hiring at the Cornwall Hospital. Yet to be hired in any managerial capacity or position of responsibility, one must be bilingual, to serve a french population of under 10%, if that.
Therefore forced bilingualism is unecessary and anti- choice, it takes away the FREEDOM TO CHOOSE
I am from quebec, and lived there for 40 years, through the 1950’s and 1960’s, I have seen it all, and It is NOT BILINGUAL sir, not even close.
I can go to historical issues and the like , so if at anytime you wish to debate me or go head to head regarding the facts of this bilinugalism issue i will only be too GLAD TO DEBATE YOU PIERRE, on this or any other issue.
I’ll leave you with this, how would you like it, if every province in Canada adopted a bill 101 that did to the french, what quebec has done to the English with quebec’s bill 101 ?
peter
February 27, 2013 at 3:28 pm
Is this the same Pierre the separatist from Gatineau?
Pierre we know you can speak french but are you capable of doing math?
# (1) 1 in 5 people in Canada work for one form of government.
Federally 65% (stats can 2011) are bilingual employees to serve 17%.
#2 only 12% of the population are federal government proficient bilingual.
#3 Outside of Quebec as they DO NOT WANT BILINGUALISM Francophones account for 4%.Therefore the cost of instituting bilingualism across the country yearly -is estimated to be near 10 billion for get this 4%.
#4-why institute pan Canadian bilingualism for the 96% that are not of french culture.
The original intention of the Official Languages Act was to provide a service -not make everyone bilingual -as that would be cultural engineering.
“I can’t argue with the fact that Québec recieves equalisation payments except to say that equalisation has nothing to do with language and that 8 provinces (maybe 9) recieve equalisation. All of them, except Ontario, recieve more than Québec on a per capita basis.”
Pierre that fact is since the 60’s Quebec has not been off this form of welfare ,do you think that when separation happens Canada will fork over the welfare check of which Quebec is the largest recipient 8 billion out of the 14 billion?
“Not many Ontario facilities (guess you mean businesses) require bilingualism in their hiring practices… If they did, unemployment would be much higher.
Think about it.”
Only all Government jobs :
Locally :
hospital 50%+
Courts 70-80 %
Health unit 100%
CCAC 80%
local french only health units -100%
Service Canada 100%
and the lists goes on -all to serve a small percentage of people .
So you call this to provide services where warranted ?
I call this discrimination !!!!!!
Fair and equitable hiring = representation by population -to do otherwise is SOCIAL ENGINEERING.
peter
February 27, 2013 at 4:21 pm
“I’ll leave you with this, how would you like it, if every province in Canada adopted a bill 101 that did to the french, what quebec has done to the English with quebec’s bill 101 ?”
But Peter that would not be excepted to do that to the French ,but its alright to do it to violate the English’s rights in the interest of protecting a French Language right Pierre the separatist?
So its alright to violate ones rights to protect the French language?
Only in Canada eh!
Where the rights of one particular Language trump the rights of ALL OTHERS.
I am starting to feel disgusted being a Canadian and allowing segregation.
@ Peter and Highlander…
It’s no use. People like Pierre, Stella, and the rest of em are brainwashed. THEY MUST BE. C’mon, seriously… Anyone who can (with a straight face) say “There is lots of bilingualism in Québec.” AND “There is more bilingualism in Québec than in any other province.” HAS GOT TO either be brainwashed on on some powerful Koolaid.
These people also believe things like, — the Quebec pumps more money into the federal government than the feds send to Quebec AND, Quebec would do just fine financially without the ROC.
They don’t see any problems demanding that all of Canada be bilingual while Quebec is COMPLETELY French ONLY. They are hot headed zealots who live in their own fantasy dream world where French is “La langue du monde” instead of English and you know what else? Many of them would even kill their grandmother in the pursuit of that goal also.
They teach their children that the English language is bad (look at the examples of the young kids beating English people up in Montreal or yelling at English people– that is PURE AND SIMPLE institutionalized HATE training from their own government.
They also teach them that the English people are the colonizers and the English culture is less worthy than the French culture. If you don’t believe me search the net. There are plenty of interviews with young people (young people who are TOO YOUNG to be saying such things from direct experience) thus, it MUST MEAN they are indoctrinated by their parents and other elders around them.
They will stop at nothing to reverse the loss on the Plains of Abraham and turn this country into a French first French dominant country. Just look at areas outside of Quebec where the French gain a foothold. These places are not bilingual. They end up French first and French dominant with English as a secondary concept. IE: the FRENCH ONLY health care clinics in Ontario. WTF ? And look at many of the small French overrun areas on the Ontario side that are dominated by the French. You don’t see much bilingualism there either. It’s mostly French first (if English is present it’;s smaller) or French only.
peter
February 27, 2013 at 3:28 pm
Is this the same Pierre the separatist from Gatineau?
OR is he the same Pierre as:
Pierre Denault February 26, 2013 at 2:42 pm
There is no debate concerning Québec or bilingualism… Just hateful «put downs».
Peter I love Glengarry Golf and Country Club. Feel quite a home there.
@ Pierre: Some people feel discrimination for no good reason.
Are you kidding me? How can you say this…
You made me sick when you posted comments before you were blocked and you still make me sick. If ever you walked in the shoes of one who has been discriminated against you would feel it then Pierre and you would know there is good reason. You obviously don’t have a clue as to what is going on when it comes to numbers and bilingual positions and just who is hired.
If one works part-time in a position that eventually becomes a full-time position; YOU CAN”T HAVE it because you are not bilingual, is this good reason Pierre?
If one volunteers to gain experience but when it becomes a paid position, YOU CAN’T APPLY because you are not bilingual, what do you call that Pierre?
When you apply to a job ad where it isn’t asking for bilingualism, and you are considred for an interview, and you score the highest, BUT ARE TOLD OH SORRY we have decided that it must be bilingual, is this good reason Pierre?
If it’s between you and one other person and you have a good chance but are told the other better suits the office environment because the office environment is French, JUST WHAT IS THIS PIERRE?
If you cannot apply to a position because you are not bilingual but you are asked to relieve these people in these positions while they are on breaks and lunch hours, is there something wrong with this Pierre?
If a student is looking for summer work and you know full-well summer jobs are created by our tax dollars as an incentive to hire students but the english student can’t apply because the jobs are deemed bilingual, would there be reason here Pierre?
If two positions are created in the government to help other students find work, in an area where 100 % of the student population speaks English, is it necessary to have both positions bilingual. What about this Pierre? AND I HAVE ONLY JUST BEGUN…
Time for quebec to go, and go fast.
We are all really fed up with this bilingual nonsense and as a canadian I am embarrassed that quebec is part of the federation, and more embarrassed that Canada, in general and canadian politicans in particular look the other way and bury thier heads in the sand, rather than confront this issue head on.
What are they afraid of? God’s knows the vast majority of Canaadians don’t want any part of bilingualism.
If their fears lie in a militant reaction from quebec, so be it.
I am tired of compromising my principles for social peace. What did the boys die for in WW11 ? Certainly not to have a country with different sets of rules for different people based on language.
Enough already, I believe quebec should go and go now, they are Canadian in name only anyway, and they suck every ounce of good will and fairness out of all of Canada, not to mention their raping of the federal treasury with grants and equalization payments
@ Peter
The profession of paramedics is not deemed necessary bilingual, in Québec, any more that it is, in any other province.
It’s a fact that not many anglos work in the government in Québec for mainly two reasons. 1, many of them, those with some education, have other very good jobs or positions and 2, the others don’t have the education or the language skills to qualify.
How can law 101 be anti-democratic and be one of the most popular laws in Québec… That would be an oxy-moron. The same goes for your views of the sign law and, by the way, english and any other language is allowed on any sign in Q. but french should be predominent but, it is not always, and nothing is done about it.
Again it’s true that french must be predominant on signs but it’s not because anglos are worth less, but because, the province is 80%+ francophone, that’s all… Just like most signs are mostly englisn in the ROC because anglos dominate there.
If Québec is not bilingual why is it asways I, the Québécois, who has to do the bilingualising when exchanging with anglos in and out of Québec.
I could go on an rebute all your arguments and those of your friends because they have no foundation. They never will have any foundations because, on the one hand, law 101 has been tried and tested in the courts of Canada and even in the court of the UN and, on the other hand, so have the signs laws of 4 Ontario municipalities. Bilingualism in the federal government and in it’s institutions has also been tried and tested and found to be the fair way to treat all canadians.
Wow Rosie ,
I Feel your pain.I don’t like being treated as a second class citizen with less rights then others for one factor language ,nor do millions of others.
What’s happening in Canada is akin to segregation ,and yet its the government that promotes this.
Has our government abandoned the principles of democracy to appease the minority,hell yes.
It sickens me to think our Country encourages segregation I am a proud Canadian ,but not proud of what has happened to OUR country.
@peter RE: POST on February 27, 2013 at 8:11 pm
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DD DD II TT TT OO OO
DDDDD IIII TT TT OOOOOOOO
🙂
@ pierre.
From gatineau, the writing styles are the same.
You don’t have a clue, we have been down this road before.
I await your answer to my questions:
How would you like every canadaian province, with its English majority to pass a bill 101 that does to the french what bill 101 in quebec does to the English?
The very fact that paramedics , like everything else there is not bilingual, is a travesty, like the rest of the “province”
quebec is a homophobic, ethnocentric isolated society, that sees only language, and NOTHING else.
They fail to recognize human rights, the economy, trade etc, these are a distant second to language.
please quebec, get out of my country , and stay out. as a jurisdiction, you are an embarrassment to Canada and the free world
Every day news media from elsewhere in Canada are reporting issues related to 101 or the upcoming 14 bill and these back up comments by Peter.
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/02/28/colin-standish-quebec-language-law-takes-a-slap-at-families-of-canadian-military/
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/02/28/don-macpherson-modern-day-francophones-want-to-starve-quebecs-english-language-universities/
@Peter
Sure I’ll answer your question even if I know that you’ll close your mind to what I write.
I don’t know how I would react if provinces with an anglo majority
would pass a law simiilar to Québec’s law 101. I would probably think they have a lot time to waste because english is certainly not at risk anywhere in Canada (including in Québec). So, for this reason, I guess, I would say that those english provinces are very mean and disrespectful of the true nature on this country.
You’re absolutely wrong because there is more bilingualism in Québec than is commaded by the Canadian Charter or Rights and Freedoms. The Charter says that minorities of official languages have a right to healthcare and to the courts in their languages and
Québec is the province where these rights are the most readily available.
You accuse Québec society of failing to recognize humain rights but that’s just your warped opinion. Again, I or anybody with a
minimum of information and an open mind, on the subject, could rebut that and most of your other allegations.
That’s why all governments, all canadian political parties all the courts and all the open minded Canadians and Québécois agree wih me… Or maybe, I should say that I agree with all the above mentioned.
One point we do agree on. The right of Québec to separate from Canada and the righ of the ROC to separate from Québec.
So all you have to do is to convince a majority of Canadians or Québécois to vote for it… But let me tell you that, because of the love, that a majority of Canadians seem to have for a united country, You, and your friends will have to come up with arguments that can hold water.
@ pierre
Why can’t English canadians protect their language and culture by passing bill 101″s of their own ?
Lets see, here is quebec:
1) English education is severly restricted . a full 70% of English schools have been closed since 1970, because of restrictive educational policies bill 101
2) honest English tax payers, CANNOT BY LAW PUT UP ENGLISH SIGNS, THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE IS OUTLAWED. bill 101
3) the officcial lanaguage of business is french only, despite a million + anglophones that live in quebec. Their rights are simply taken away, and ignored, and their language, the international language of the world given NO RESPECT bill 101
4) quebec gives the francophones the right to abuse and not serve a segment of its population, at their discreation eg. paramedics REFUSING TO ASSIST A 2 YEAR OLD CHILD BECAUSE SHE WAS ENGLISH . Both you and your quebec governemnt sanction this type of behaviour. BILL 101
5) English Owners of businesses are FORCED TO PUT ENGLISH IN A POSTION THAT REFLECTS A SECOND CLASS CITIZEN STATUS. bill 101
6) the overall climate, enviroment and ambiance of quebec, reeks of anti- English sentiment and negativity towards all that is English bill 101
7) Montreal transportation personal, refuse to speak, acknowledge or serve anyone who is not french, I have first hand knowledge of this . This happens daily on buses and metros in Montreal . bill 101
8) Anglophone workers have been admonished for speaking or using English among themselves in the workplace, many of these are federal positions bill 101
9) the intimidation of french militant groups such as st. jean. baptist. and the like, that attack English at every and all levels
in oder to establish their militant and at times violent presence, to be sure both francophones of reason, and Anglophones tow the line. bill 101
10) The constant threat that the FLQ and RIN will again rise and begin there murderous and rampent killings to make their point.
bill 101
11) quebec’s international embarrassment over the word PASTA, deemed by the office de la langue francais as being a THREAT to quebec language and culture , talk about stupidity, and you support this nonsesnse ? bill 101
These are but a short few examples of quebec and its society. The current governemnt wants to further amend bill 101 to put more restrictions on the English in quebec.
If ever i had the power to do to the french in the rest of Canada , what quebec has done to the English in quebec, I would do it in a heartbeat.
I would love to have a bill 101 similar to quebec’s in every province in Canda, to protect the English, language and culture. To make sure , that never again would the Englsih in Canada be subjected to bilingualism of any kind.
That never again out language, the intenational of the world would be subjected to hte abuse, scorn and maligancy that the french in quecbec have applied to the Anglophones in quebec.
Its a disgrace to any person who respects the human rights of all people everywhere.
Allowing a 2 year old child to possibly die or have serious medical reprecussions as a result of bias paramedic who, BY LAW , doesn’e have to speak English , says it all about quebec and their society.
No one of decency and conscience can condone this, other than nazi like and minded people.
I will fight to the grave to ensure, promote, suggest, sponsor or in any other way shape or form to get quebec out of Canada at any and all costs. They are a cancer canada cannot afford to live with.
This cancerous tumor must be removed, in order to preserve free choice and a Canada that can re-claim its dignity within the free nations of the world
The Charter of Rights and Freedoms does not “command” any bilingualism Pierre, and I would like to see some numbers from each province backing up your claim for healthcare & courts. Also, where in the Charter does it mention receiving healthcare and courts in any language?
Quebec alone can not decide on and then separate, a fixed number of provinces amounting to 50% of the Canadian population can let go or keep. Of course, picking and choosing which Charter rights and laws one wants to follow or interpret is always fun.
Pierre pens:
“You accuse Québec society of failing to recognize humain rights but that’s just your warped opinion. Again, I or anybody with a
minimum of information and an open mind, on the subject, could rebut that and most of your other allegations.”
Why then all of the negative media publicity in re: to language policies of that province?
We’re not just talking negative publicity now Pierre from the rest of Canada. International journalism has now taken note of Quebec’s fascist policies on language and exposed it for what it really is, right? I suppose though you’re of the opinion that Quebec is right and the rest of the world (never mind now the rest of Canada) is wrong?
Have you heard of the latest pasta fiasco in Quebec?
Pierre, never mind your accusations of the warped opinions of others. Time to look at yourself in the ‘miroir’ and ask yourself of your own asinine opinions.
To your comment Peter at February 28, 2013 at 3:58 pm:
Amen Brother,
Cory
@ pierre,
the English provinces that you characterize as mean and disrespectable is how the English characterize todays quebec ,
so now you know how we feel.
You stated that: “the charter says that minoritiories have a right to health care and the courts in their own language” ( Feb 28th. at 2:19 p. m. Correct ?
Yet you also stated on Feb 27th. at 9:33 p.m. and I quote
” the profession of paramedics is NOT DEEMED bilingual in quebec or any more than in any other province ”
So what you are saying is that the charter allows bilingualism in quebec, but it does not apply to para medics, even though they are directly associated with health and safety of all citizens
And you want to argue with people based on what?
Supposition and unsubstanicated rethoric ?
I live in an English community of Ontario , that has very little french presence. If a francophne was ill and needed assistance, if there was no french person available, then a translator would be made available IMMEDIATELY, WE HAVE DOCUMENTED CASES THAT THESE ISSUES HAVE OCCURRED AND HAVE BEEN DEALT WITH SUCCESSFULLY.
We would NEVER, EVER, leave a 2 year old child (English, french or other ) and their parents to fend for themselves, because we are English.
That french child would be treated as any other patient, with dignity respect and care. quebec choose to treat this little girl with contempt and indifference, just because she was English
This is what you support and defend sir, in the name of language, and it is why there is NO RESPECT for HUMAN RIGHTS IN quebec.
It is undignified and at the low end of the spectrum among jurisdictions in the westrn hemisphere.
So please don’t give me any of your contradictory rethoric trying to defend a quebec that is INDEFENSEABLE
Oh please… How can ANYONE take this Pierre fella seriously. From what i can see from what he writes he is either blinded by complete indoctrination — in which case there is no use, he’s a lost cause — or well, just downright trying to “pretend” not to see.
@ Peter & Eric Cory Cameron
There are none so blind as those who will not see!
Eric, it’s a very well known fact that the Charter commands all provinces to provide healthcare and court services to official language minorities.That’s about all I can say except, check it out. Check out the Bain case and the run around he forced on the courts because he could find some french in the report from his psychiatrist.
Peter, I did not characterize any english provinces as mean and disrespectable because they will never enact a language law they do not need… Not to say that, you guys, would not like them to, eh?
You write anything that comes into your head, don’t you. Paramedics is not a profession that is deemed to require bilingualism. That is substantiated. Check it out!
Sorry, I can’t cut and paste but your next paragraph starting with: You say you live in a community that has a very small french presence… That opinion is what is unsubstantiated.
The child and his parents were not left to fend for themselves. The paramedics were to busy caring for the child to stop and talk to the parents, at that crucial time.
One of the paramedics could speak english and did speak to the parents after the child was saved.
It’s the parents who played politics afterwards by complaining to the press. They should have simply said, thank you very, very much for saving our child.
It is the english press and you guys who are undefendable… Trying to change opinion into fact.
Cory Caneron, the reason for the negative opinions from corrupt english media is that hate sells.
Pierre
February 28, 2013 at 2:19 pm
“So, for this reason, I guess, I would say that those english provinces are very mean and disrespectful of the true nature on this country.”
-So its not alright to behave in such a way to the french but its excepted to do it to the English ?WoW ETHNOCENTRIC
You’re absolutely wrong because there is more bilingualism in Québec than is commaded by the Canadian Charter or Rights and Freedoms.
-The Charter of rights (most always prominent and within feet of me now) does not state that bilingualism is commanded of the population .
Besides look at the article you are writing on -it states and informs us that Quebec Gov and bill 14 does not want bilingualism its all on the documentation for bill 14.
“The Charter says that minorities of official languages have a right to healthcare and to the courts in their languages and
Québec is the province where these rights are the most readily available.”
-So MINORITIES of OFFICIAL LANGUAGES have a right to healthcare -so if that is so what happened to Mark Bergeron’s daughter (the 2 year old) who was having a seizure and the ambulance attendant refused to speak English when he was capable-
Hey Pierre take a look at the video above-that’s right it doesn’t follow your indoctrination!
“One point we do agree on. The right of Québec to separate from Canada and the righ of the ROC to separate from Québec.”
-So now we have it you agree with separation,the difference is others (not myself) want Quebec separated because of the gangrenous effect Quebec has on the rest of Canada.you do it in the falacy that “YOU” the Quebecois are entitled and Quebec would be better off.
Sometimes you have to cut the gangrenous toe to save your foot no less your life , cutting the gangrenous appendage (the welfare state) that is Quebec would save the rest of Canada from this poisonous effect from le welfare state.
Pierre, once upon a time it was a well know fact that the earth was flat. I read the Charter before responding to you last time, and now I see you are changing your wording. However, the Charter does not specifically advise on those 2 services being administered in all provinces in any language. I doubt any hospital outside of Quebec would refuse a Canadian because of language, although the Montfort in Ottawa is really working to be the exception.
We are talking about the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms right?
Bain’s case is tragic, what is the connection here?
@pierre,
according to you quebec is very bilingual. And also according to you the charter provides health care in both official languages .
Is responding to an emergency not health care ?
Is requesting to be spoken to, in a language that would better provide for his daughter’s health care and give a clearer picture of her medical synptoms in order to expidite her treatment not logical and correct ?
You were the one that said it would be disrespectable and mean if this was to happen.
Who said , protection of the English language is not needed, you .
well, I believe, now more than ever, the English language is under assault by the introduction of forced bilingualism.
Cetainly it is more threatened than the french language.
Englsih has disappeared in quebec, as evidenced by the eliminating of 70& of English schools in Montreal alone. and now the threat of it happening in Ontario is growing at a pace that is becoming scary.
So, yes the English language NEEDS protection. What is starting to happen here, is a repeat of what happened in quebec, when the french claimed their language was threatened.
So, pierre, we are threatened, and therefore a charter to protect the English language , should and one day, will be legislated.
As for hate selling, the french are experts at putting this into practice, via, st. jean baptist society, the quebec solodarity movement the FLQ, the RIN and whole host of other murderous groups that dot your landscape.
You should be proud of these killers ( RIN and FLQ ) tey embody all of what quebec is about regarding their nationalism.
Allo police and the rest of the french press make it their mission in life to discriminate, attack and abuse the English at every turn, so yes , you are correct in that the media perpatrates hated, only its against the English .
get out of my country pierre, and stay out. The last thing a freedom loving country needs is the infusion of your kind of bigotted, anti- english and anti-democratic views that you aspire to.
anyone who writes that the parents a sick 2 year old were wrong to try to save their child from a medical emergency by speaking in their mother tongue, to a cold, bias and harsh para-medic with an agenda is not welcome here.
Welcome to Canada where segregation lives and breaths.
Pierre your {MODERATED} value system belongs in Quebec please try not to spread it here.
Your province is a discusting example when a culture believes itself superior to others.
The welfare province has not been able to sustain itself financially for 50+ years ,you would think a superior culture would not get used to handouts.
to enterain a person with a different opinion based on factual, logical events and circumstance is welcomed.
However, to entertain a moronic, bias , anti-English and anti- democratic English hater is quite another.
peirre’s postions reek of the latter, and are glaring examples of what quebec society has become.
Our so-called federal government stands back, choosing not to take a stand for what is right. They simply put their heads in the sand and by their silence permit these abuses against the English to continue, day in and day out
You now know why a new Canadian political party is NECESSARY.
If there was ever a doubt, read pierre’s version of Canda and quebec.
Boycotts are but one essential to draw attention to these abuses.
Withholding of funds, withholding of volunteer services and the like are other ways to boycott.
It is up to us, the people to fight back with all the fortitude we have to stop this assault on our culture and freedom
It will be interesting to see the outcome of this. We also have a law that protects the rights of professionals and qualified tradespeople the mobility to work anywhere in Canada. If Bill 14 is passed then Quebec will be knowingly violating it, because the law is based on qualifications passed not the ability to use a minority language.
This will also become a larger issue from an employment and a human rights issue.
They should remove the fleur de lis from the flag, and just have a white flag again as the fleur de lis was based on the three tenets of faith, wisdom and chivalry which are severely lacking in the Quebec Governments idea of a society
@ Stephen,
I ‘d be very interested to see how Ottawa skirts the law regarding trades people to work anywhere as you so aptly outlined.
No doubt, they will again use the notwithstanding clause or some other fabricated law to allow quebec to get around this.
Again, this is the very reason we need an all anglophone Candaina party to begin to deal with these terrible injustices perpatraed against the Anglophones in this country.
Well the province did nothing a few years ago even though McGuinty said he would. Can’t imagine federally much beyond a yawn from the Official Languages Commissioner. People really need to wake up!
It has been one sided for a long time. http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Ottawa+truckers+fume+Quebec+companies+haul+city+snow/7777786/story.html
@ highlander
I can’t follow your reasoning or lack of it. It’s just too nonsensecal and, by the way, the cost of bilingualism is 2.8B not 10B as you said.
@Eric
Check article 133 constitution 1867. The official languages act requires all courts and quasi-judicial bodies to be bilingual in Québec but not in all the other provinces.
I’m sorry it’s the Québec Charter of Rights that guaranties health and social services to anglophones check bill 142 and bill 120.
When reading the Canadian Charter and the Québec Charter you will understand that Québec anglos have rights that franco canadians minorities can only dream of except in Ottawa.
@ Peter
Maybe paramedics should be considered an essentialy bilingual profession… I’ll tell you what. When paramedics are bilingual in the ROC I’ll tell `Pauline` to follow suit… How many paramedics, do you think are bilingual in Cornwall or in the ROC. My bet is around 0.
And no it’s not logical to stop to talk (in any language) while a child is on the floor in critical need of medical services.
I repeat. One of the medics could speak english and did speak to the parents after the situation had been under control… Check it out!
There are still about as many anglos in Québec as there are Francos in the ROC. The difference is the francophone have been assimilated while most anglos have left Québec for oil rich Alberta or for the financial boom in Toronto.
To compare the FLQ with Québec nationalists is totally absurd and most anglos would tell you so. I’ll tell you this though; your hateful attitude and thinking towards Québec and the francophone is similar to that of Richard Bain… Check that out too. When he was arrested he screamed the same xenophobic crap that some of you guys do.
And as a debater you’re about in Highlander’s class.
Thank you for putting me in highlander’s class. That is indeed compliamentary.
Every time you open your mouth is another reason to get you, and quebec out of Canada.
Understand, ythat the NOTWITHSTANDING CLAUSE SUPERCEDES THE CHARTER, which is a way of legally circumventing legitimate law..
In words you may understand it allows quebec to pass laws that were illegal prior to the notwithstanding clause being evoked.
This was trudeau’s coup de gras regarding forcing bilingualism on Canada.
It is obvious pierre, that you are not a canadian. Your stance on the issues are just moronic and senseless. there is simply no point in arguing with you. By making reference to the canadaian constitution that has been repatriated and superceeded by the Charter which ibcludes the notwithstanding clause and your ignorance of the meaning of this laughable.
You can quote obsolute articles of the B.N. A. Act till the cows come home, this is a futile exercise, given the notwithstanding clause superceedes all of that.
What part of this are you not understanding ? A grade 10 canadian History student can grasp thios concept.
To compare quebec nationalist to the FLQ, is appropriate. I lived through the times when FLQ murdered Laporte and Kidnapped Mr. Cross. The very same rethoric that was used then is used today.
french in quebec or else. Their intimidation of reasonable francophones in quebec is on going and daily. Their constant threat to anyone who doesn’t do it their way, stretches all the way to the current governemnt of quebec and the current federal governemnt.
I would love to tell quebec get, lost , bring on the FLQ and to hell with the consequences. I am one anglo who has no fear of cowards. Either th FLQ or any quebec nationalist. Bring it on baby.
But the only way they can fight is to murder innicant people and attack sick children with their french language only policies
They are cowards, and Canada doesn’t need cowards in the same mould as the nazis in germany when thety prohibited the Jews from putting up their language of choice.
as I said before, get the hell out of my country, stay in quebec and wallow in this racist welfare state, you deserve each other.
I would love to meet you face to face to discuss this
I do not know why Quebec Politics are continuing to be discussed on here.. We are in Ontario… Bill 14 has nothing to do with you… Cory Cameron always seem to have his nose in QC politics.. Yes it may be ridiculous as is Pauline Marois but what a waste of space to continue debating QC politics…
I belong to a Forum on Facebook People from the Eastern townships a lovely forum to share our feelings on QC etc… but for the most part people say the people who do not live here do not really know that things do work themselves out…
Sure wish I would see more of that here in Eastern Ontario!
Jane Doe,
Everything that takes place in Quebec has everything to do with ALL Canadians; so long as Quebec is still a part of Canada.
I care for all of Canada’s citizenry and right now; there are a little more than 1 million Non-Francophones living in Quebec under second class rule. These souls are under the microscope but for the language in which they speak, work and live – All day and everyday.
And what’s worse is that there are laws that have been legislated in that area of Canada whereby a language has been severely impacted but for the fact that it is a language and nothing else. That being English in this case. This, to myself and countless Canadians seems asinine and ludicrous in the year 2013; or rather in any year whatsoever.
So as you highlight the point that I have my nose in Quebec politics keep in mind that Quebec is still a part of Canada and I have every right to be concerned about Canadian politics. I am a Canadian after all.
For I would like to point out, Quebec politics are still considered ‘Canadian’ politics. Tell me Jane Doe, do you separate Quebec politics from Canadian politics? Because Stella, you’ve always advocated that we shouldn’t be concerned with what occurs outside of our sphere of influence; have you not?
There is something else that concerns me too Jane/Stella/Pierre.
And this is your insistent support of the racist, ethnocentric policies of the various Quebec governments.
This as we have alluded to before, has spilled over into Eastern Ontario in at least 4 municipalities with the forcing of the advertising of 2 languages.
The lot of you continually spout to us our, ‘obsession’ with commenting on Quebec politics. However, I never see any of you alude to your obvious sense of obsessive support/defense of said ethnocentric policies coming out of that province.
As freedom and democratic loving Canadians as I hope the three of you are I am challenging you three to speak out against this legislated bullying and hatred such as what is found in Quebec through Bills 101 and 14.
Why would the Quebec government need to export spies and supporters for their cause in Eastern Ontario when they have Vichy types like yourselves ready and willing to practice this French imperialism. Are we to now believe that your continued support of these unfair laws and continued attacks on LFA and its supporters are proof positive that the three of you are Vanguard types for the exporting of Quebec-style political/social hatred of Non-Francophones into Eastern Ontario?
I mean the three of you support By-Laws that force business owners to advertise in 2 languages even though the business owners themselves may not wish to.
And what does that tell us about your views on liberty? Or Freedom of Expression? Or even such a simplistic ideal as the Freedom of Choice?
Forget not that even Mussolini’s own people had him and his wife hung in the town square after all was said and done and their fascist beliefs were defeated.
I wonder if much the same thing may be in store for any of your futures?
@peter
You live in the past … For your own good and the good of all of Canada… You need to evolve… Let me help you.
Bourassa, a federalist, did use the NWC. in 1989 but, as you should know, the clause must be renewed every 4 yrs.
Anyways, in 1993, after the UN had criticsed law 101, the Premier made the necessary changes so that it would conforn to the Canadian Charter and the judgment of the Supreme Court of Canada.
This, Peter, proves that I understand Canada better than you do and if, as you say, if all of this, can be understood by a grade 10 student, it also suggests that you have not yet reached that intellectual level.
But whatever your intellectual level, it does not allow you to air unsubstantiated paranoid rants unchallenge. So, I challenge you, to prove that anybody, in Québec, except extremist fools
like you(s) are, use the kind of rethoric that was used by the FLK in 1970 some 43 yrs ago.
The fact is that soverainists are the most democratic of canadians because they want to separate Quebecers from the government of Canada (I phrase it this way because, Québec will always be in Canada, geographically speaking) peacefully, after winning a referendum with a clear majority of 50%+1… The same majority that was needed to bring Newfoundland into Canada.
The FLQ members that committed those horrific crimes have been hunted down, captured, tried and convicted after Bourassa ( the Premier who used the NWC) backed by René Lévesque, leader of the opposition, who convince Trudeau, our beloved prime Minister or the time, to use the the war measure’s law… Case closed!
Canada is my country too. It’s the federal politicians who are making it impossible for Québec to separate, with the clarity act, which is anything but clear… And now young Trudeau is suggesting that he would demand a 2/3 majority vote on separation if he was Prime Minister.
So rather than you making, what can be interpreted as, a poorly veiled threath at intimidation, maybe, we should work together to make your wish come true and get me, and Québec, out of Canada… Here’s an idea. Let’s vote N.D.P.
Cory: Prove to me how Quebec is exporting spies to Eastern Ontario… I am with the understanding certain powers are given to each province.. Now I do not have these at my finger tips but i can do a search and find out what exactly is the Province’s powers…
what is wrong with bilingual signs on businesses in Ontario and NFLD and Vancouver and other places… What is wrong with it.. We are after all a bilingual country…
@ Cory
Post , march 2nd. 9:40 a.m.
Ole and great post. No one could have said it better.
Hello Jane……yep, the english freedom fighters want to control and rule this country. Afterall, they are the majority **smile**
You see Jane, this group does not have enough support in Ontario, they need to go elsewhere to try and garner support. They won’t stop until the entire country is divided. CONQUER AND DIVIDE!!!!
What a horrible country we live in!! Jane I am hoping you can make it to the BIG RALLY in Ottawa. We must fight for these english folks who are being treated so badly by our own Gov. They deserve better. Children are dying left and right because of language…..despicable I would say
We are one nation under God and this has to stop…..they are the majority and must lead. Our life is in their hands!!!
this protest is futile. In 5 years montreal will be a bilingual city. Grenville sur la rouge is already declaring itself as a bilingual city regardless of what the Québec government requires. Funny thing is, in Québec anglos are pro bilingualism, but, in Ontario its a whole different story. Anglos like our fair editor will say, ¨it is my choice NOT to learn french¨ If i had a dollar for every time i heard that phrase from an anglo i’d be a wealthy man.
@ pierre,
are you on drugs? seriously , are you ?
I have already stated that the notwithstanding clause superceedes the charter, it OVERRIDES THE CHARTER.
quebec has and is using this “draconian” clause to invoke its will AND APPLYING IT TO AN INALIEABLE RIGHT ( THE RIGHT TO BE ABLE TO FREELY USE ANY LANGUAGE UNIVERSALLY)
Inalienable right, is a GOD GIVEN RIGHT pierre, not man made.
It is as basic as a the right to pursue happiness and be free of all and any restraints that intefere with said inalienable rights.
trudeau has , by including the notwithstanding clause has allowed the charter to override this GOD given right.
Please refer me to the trails of the FLQ, I’d be very interested in hearing about them.
When they happen
What sentences did they receive
Where are they now
The answers to these questions ought to be really good.
Please enlighten us
To my knowledge they are heroes to the quebec nationalists, so much so that that at least one of the rose brothers taught at U.of M.
Wow were they ever punished.
the war measures act was invoked during the captivity of Cross and Laporte, not after the fact as you allude to.
it was passed to first of all protect of government ministers.
secondly it was passed to try to restore order and get back the victims.
My good friend and the late Bryce Mackassy, was a minister in the trudeau government , at the time , and was on the phone with Laporte when the FLQ knocked on his door and then proceeded to kidnap and murder him.
I am very aware of the facts here pierre, I lved hrough it
Your people pierre. These were the intimidators of quebec and canada that are alive and well today.
Just because you don’t hear about these radical murderous groups in daily papers, does not mean they don’t exist.
movement soladaire, is but one example, there are others too numerous to mention here.
some surfaced during the 400 year birthday of quebec city.
They were instrumental in haing the reinactment of the Plains of Abraham cancelled, and the poweres that be, bent to their will.
I guess they are afraid of the truth being told, it is histoorical fact that Wolfe did beat Moncalm , or are you going to deny this as well.
I agree, if it was up to me, I’d get quebec now, 50% + 1 is fine with me.
I want them out so badly, I would even take up residency to vote yes in the next referendum. Tell me the date and I’ll be there to get quebec out in a heartbeat, and bon chance, salut.
the sooner the better.
Please do not insult me by saying you are a Canadian too, you are a nationalist that wants french language only , and eradiucate the Englsih from quebec, and anywhere else you deem necessary.
People of equality and fairness know that any supporter of bill 101 are reflections of what that law represents . Supporters are biggots, bias and nazi like thinkers in an enthnocentric, homophobic , isolated society, that places language above all else, even to the detriminent of basic human rights.
try selling bill 101 to the U.S., England, and any other democratic nation and see the response you would get.
as for the NDP or as I call it the new bloc, they are as Candian as pauline marois, at least thier quebec MP`S are.
If you believe for a second I would work with you , you are crazier than I hought,
I wouldn`t even consider breathing the same air with anyone like you, that supports anti-democrantic, anti- english laws and justifies this with irrationale and bogus suppositions that are right out of Disneyland, and fantasy world.
your have great , and ignorant allies such as stella low bright and jane doe-doe. together your three stoogies can embark upon your journey , wallowing in ineptness of thought and ignorance of fact.
@ jane doe
What is wrong with bilingual signs in quebec then
Big rally in Ottawa have not heard about it.. sorry I cannot attend LOL Stella… OH my goodness our hands in their hands I must run for the hills back to QC
Still have not hear from Mr Cameron for a link about the spies from QC..This group will not conquer and divide.. they can try and try and drag everyone through the mud but they will not succeed