CORNWALL Ontario – I’m facing a huge decision in this election. The Chamber of Commerce, in spite of the letter from the Ontario Civil Liberties Association, is not backing down on its demands.
For the first time it is forcing candidates to sign a document to participate in the All Candidates Televised Debate on the 15th of October at the Civic Complex.
It essentially is a binding agreement for all candidates that appear and until this election has never been done in Cornwall.
Likewise none of the other debate events in our city involve signing such an agreement.
While the form may seem innocent enough at first it’s the combination of the guidelines that truly make this a scary move that would make any fascist proud.
There are no definitions or devices to insure what is being asked. What if a moderator accepts a statement made as factual that isn’t? What if they decree that a statement of fact isn’t and actually is? Their own employee, Mike Metcalf, just posted a letter to the editor in Past Chamber President Rick Shaver’s Seaway News that was filled with non factual statements. Will he be a moderator?
Why the last sentence for Mayoralty candidates and not for council?
Is this supposed to be a debate? Debates get messy. They include opinion. According to the document that the chamber is forcing candidates to sign there clearly can be none stated. Who will be fact checking and will the debates stop if a candidate challenges a fact?
As to apparel we’ve already covered that with Chamber President Kevin Hargreaves stating that the Charter of Canadian Rights and Freedoms doesn’t matter. As a follow up I asked him what if a candidate wanted to appear in drag? His answer?
If the candidate lives their life among the LGBT community they can come as they normally would dress, no problem.
I know. I couldn’t figure out that one either? I asked him if candidates had to declare their sexuality before appearing at the debate and his response to that was short.
No and I’m done with this question.
One of our candidates is a lawyer and one is a paralegal. Some running actually know better. Surely if 31 candidates refused to sign this document a solution would be found but sadly as of yesterday when the chamber issued a final alert only myself, Leslie O’Shaughnessy, Todd Bennett, Davey Bedard, Bernadette Clement, Brock Frost, Greg Kielec, Elaine MacDonald, David Murphy, Gerry Samson, and Guy St. Jean had not returned their signed forms with October 6th being the deadline.
I’ve spoken to my advisors and some of my supporters, and all are pushing me to sign the document and appear no matter how much no elected official should ever sign a document as open ended as this. Can you imagine signing an agreement with the Feds over our waterfront if it was worded like this?
Frankly the big issue isn’t the apparel clause. For example if the Chamber had simply asked candidates to wear Black Tie or Business Professional there would be no questions; but this is more about someone wearing a message t shirt than anything else and that’s sad when you think about an organization doing that. I mean if a candidate did that; or wore a clown suit the voters would judge them accordingly.
It should not be up to the chamber to favor one candidate or another; but it’s the stifling of free speech in a debate that’s of most concern and should be for anyone wanting to represent the greater good of the public. Are we going to tell Chamber members who to vote for now too; or what to put on the menu’s of their restaurants or not to use pre-cooked frozen foods any longer?
I thought I’d ask our viewers what you thought about Mr. Hargreaves and the Chamber of Commerce first ever documents that seem created for one purpose only and that’s stifling actual debate?
You can post your comment below and vote in our poll.
To reach Mr. Hargreaves you can email him at kelseys7091@cara.com or drop in at Kelsey’s (a Cara restaurant) to speak with him in person.
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Seems to me the CoC is trying to control the debate and how it is perceived by the voting public. They also seem, by pushing the guidelines, etc., how each candidate appears.
what are you afraid of Jamie? Can’t debate without slinging poop everywhere. If you have facts and can confirm them, then you have no worries. BUT we all know that all you do is LIE and that is why you don’t want to go too the debate because you can’t back up your accusations!
Sue I’m ready to debate just about any time any place. I’ve now challenged Bob 3 times. I think it’s pretty clear who’s afraid to debate and who isn’t.
I’d debate him in a barn, I’d debate him on a farm, in the rain, or in Spain. I’d debate him night; I’d debate him day. I’d debate him with no pay.
Sadly he turns his back and shows his crack, which is better than his face with eyes lost grace, and grizzled lines of petty lies and shadows.
What on earth does the Chamber of Commerce have to do with Municipal Elections? It sounds like a “Big Brother” thingy.
I will not vote for anyone who will sign that waivier to pertisapate in this riged debate the chamber is putting on.Hopefully more voters feel the sameway as i do.Nothing but bulls— from our very own chamber of commerce.
Stan…..the CoC has really nothing to do with the election. But CoC’s typically host debates before elections. I’ve never seen one with so many conditions to participate before though.
Hugger I think this shows the prejudice I’m campaigning and working under in Cornwall. The public rarely sees it. If the chamber was really concerned I’d wear a message shirt all that had to do was announce that the debate was formal wear or business attire.
Frankly I fear there will be police waiting and this time the chamber will hit the panic button. Cornwall deserves a fair debate and there are an awful lot of people reading this and just shaking their head at the Chamber and Cornwall.
Remember Mr. Hargreaves actually typed those words about our Charter of Rights and his board have not sanctioned him…. that’s scary.
Admin….agreed. I don’t think it’s just you that the CoC is worried about. I think it’s any candidate not clique approved that has the CoC concerned.
I think the CoC would be making a huge mistake if they have police visible or involved as the debate will be on TVCogeco. Agreed, Cornwall deserves a fair debate.
If the CoC board has not sanctioned Kevin Hargreaves yet to me it means one of two things….either they agree with him or it’s been dealt with quietly behind the scenes. Will we ever know the truth? I seriously doubt we will.
11
11 out of 32 candidates refusing to sign the “Agreement Form” to me shows there is a problem. To me it shows the CoC is pushing too hard to enforce a CoC / clique approved debate and showcase CoC / clique approved candidates.
Hugger none have stated that they would refuse to sign the document.
Perhaps. But as the deadline is Monday I’d think if they were going to sign they would have by now.
Dear CFN readers,
As a candidate running for a seat at city council I did sign the C of C agreement form and I will abide by their guidelines. This is my personal decision as I have no issue with the Chamber, the document or the guidelines. The other candidates are free to decide if they want object to the document or not. I am in no way a member of any Cornwall clique and I have no affiliation with the C of C in any way. In my opinion the most important part of this campaign should be about us talking and dealing with the real issues facing Cornwall over the next 4 years, we should be talking positive ideas for growth and change and not about what to wear to a professional business event or don’t vote for this person because he/she is clique. I am a formerly trained soldier and veteran trained to show respect at all times, be professional and to obey and follow orders. If I object then I have the right to complain after. If I don’t agree then I just don’t show up and give my reason why.
On a personal level, in the past, I have had personal experiences with issues at debates hosted by our C of C. In the 2010 municipal election I felt that my time on camera was cut short by the moderator as it appeared to me he had issue with my comments going against the current council. I watched the event later at home on TV and saw for myself that my time was cut short and passed to another candidate Mr. Pat Finnerty. Before the 2011 Provincial debate I was kicked out of the complex salon for wearing a clean, new white t-shirt that read “I’m voting for a Poverty Free Ontario” The C of C felt that it was too political for a political debate.
As this debate is also a televised event I have no objection donning a suit and tie to represent to the voters and show TV viewers that I am professional, honourable and worthy as a candidate to represent our city in a professional manner. I am running to improve and make change in how things in this city are being done and work for a positive, prosperous, healthy and clean future for all of us to live in and to enjoy.
I have worked long and hard to help the citizens of my city and will support the views of our voters but I am also ashamed to think that someone in this city would not vote or support me or my values just because I signed a piece of paper that some may have issue with. I strongly believe that this can be a city with possibilities and that change is needed at city hall. I have hope and a desire that it will happen after this election. We Deserve Better. I will be at the civic complex on Wednesday, October 15th to further discuss with anyone my decision on this matter. Gary W. Samler.
For there to be any validity to the meeting under these rules/guidelines the moderator could not be from Cornwall nor have met or come to know otherwise any of the candidates for mayor or councilor.
The form clearly indicates that sole discretion lies in the hands of the moderator without recourse. The moderator therefore would have to demonstrate their capability of total neutrality.
Personally I would not sign such a demeaning document that in no way protects me from a potentially biased moderator.
I question the true source for the very concept of this instrument and suggest that there was/is a very obvious intent to this sudden need for compliance by signature.
I cannot stand the drama or the Side Show Bob mentality that is entering into this election cycle.
An old timer once told me “Unless its unsafe, obey now and grieve later.”
“Stand your ground” it appears you have them worried.
Sign on the dotted line, under duress if need be. Let the debate set your next course of action. And let the electorate decide theirs.
David Oldham… Side Show Bob mentality is being polite.
Sorry Mr,Samler but you just lost my vote,Good luck in the election.I think you would make a good councillor
Mr. Samler you have the experience from the previous time how corrupt running for mayor and council is really like. I would like you and others to play Mr. Pat Finnerty’s video and stay on it until the end because it is the ending (close to the end and end) that is the interesting part with the truth. Now and then I like to play Mr. Finnerty’s video which I bookmarked and he talks about children going to bed hungry in Cornwall and about those who loll away in their ivory towers (the rich) who don’t give a rat’s ass about the little people. All of you little people out there who is reading what I am printing think hard before you put an X down next to someone’s name because it can cost you mighty dearly. Bare Ass is supposed to be off limits including Mr. Sabourin (they belong to the same club) yes the same club that beats you over the head all day like my favorite comedian George Carlin said in his jokes. George Carlin came out with the truth as well as “The American Dream” you have to be asleep to believe it. I want people to wake up because if you don’t wake up you will find yourselves in a terrible financial mess. You cannot turn back the clock and what is coming is going to be a nightmare and I am not just aiming at tiny Cornwall but the entire world and we have to learn how to live in order to survive if we are lucky.
I do not like the sounds of this at all.. I have never heard of such a thing… the way i see it is if the moderator likes you your answer will go through if not well they will not accepted …… never heard of such BS it would need to be an impartial moderator and where are you going to go to have to get this and why in the heck is chamber of commerce involved in this..
Mr. Samler if I were living in Cornwall you would get my vote. I don’t give a rat’s ass about the Chamber or any other except for good candidates. I can just picture the Barney Fife PD having their eyes glued on our Jamie. LOL LOL. ROLF! I have to see the videos when they come out. I don’t get Cogeco only Rogers and I don’t watch TV only my family so Jamie will have to have them on video on youtube for me and others who are keeping track of what is going on in Cornwall. Yes as a former military man you have to follow orders whether you like it or not that is how the military operates. I like and respect you very much and I wish you all the luck and do hope that you win. Cornwall needs good people like yourself and all the very best. Jamie if the Barney Fife PD will be there which I know that they would expect anything coming out of Bare Ass and company. This would be a good piece of entertainment for me. LOL LOL. ROLF! I can’t help it I have to laugh every time I think about when they threw you out of the chamber of cretons. The law only applies on certain people’s side and everyone else is toast. There is only JUST US.
The CoC would fit in well with Chinese style politics.
As someone else has said already Jamie, you seem to have some people quite concerned about what you may say. You have already proven you can articulate well and make very valid points within the rules of the debate guidelines, as evidenced by your speech at the library debate.
If there were more time and more debates scheduled I would suggest boycotting this obvious attempt to thwart free speech, to make a point. However, since this is not the case I think you would make more of an impact by beating them at there own game. If the moderators (thought police)are out of line or overzealous in there duties, the audience will know and it will be televised for all to see.
Jules it’s not clear if CFN will be able to get the event on video. They are trying to force the media to sit at one table that’s not video friendly giving Cogeco an unfair advantage which actually violates CRTC rules I believe….
Trevor I can’t believe the other candidates are not standing up for this one. If 31 candidates told the chamber to cut it out they’d cut it out.
The candidates are refusing to do that including Mayor Kilger who as our MP would certainly be aware of our Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
Marc I know that I will make a good councillor and thank you for having confidence in my ability.That is why I am running. The Chamber debate is one way I can get out to tell all Cornwall voters why a vote for me will ensure that any changes for moving Cornwall forward over the next 4 years will be done right. I strongly believe we need to do better I served my country proudly and I have the leadership and I am willing to fight for the best interests of my community.
Jamie the more I am sitting here this evening the more I smell a set up or a big rat. It is like the Chamber is supporting Bare Ass in some way or other where if you tell the truth they knock you down. Even what Mr. Samler said about what he went through in the last election was completely unfair. This time around is not democratic in any way whatsoever. Gee now I will miss out on the action of this sham of an election. If this is what they have in store you might as well not have an election at all or have someone from out of town who has no knowledge of Bare Ass and the crazy goings on of Cornwall to regulate this election. The whole thing stinks to high heaven. I was thinking about that after I wrote my previous blog. I think that this is going to turn more and more voters away from voting. I like and respect Mr. Samler and he wants what is good for Cornwall and its citizens. Mr. Samler is ex-military and is used to taking orders whether good or bad and yes the military is like this. If all candidates got up and told the Chamber where to go then it would show well but without the people speaking up then nothing will happen for the good. I have seen so much happen in Cornwall that was not kosher at all in all my days but since Bare Ass took over as mayor things have been in the toilet ever since.
I whole heartly Belive you Mr,Samler but that being said you have to ask yourself. Why is the chamber forcing these rules on anybody?We certainly no why this is happening it doesn,t take a brain scientist to figure this one out.Our mayor Mr. Kilger talks with forked tonque If he,s all for transperance and honesty he himself should never agree to sign this form.I feel who ever agree,s to these rules and doesn,t stand up to this form of bullying, is just following the flock and will not get my vote.Everyone seems to want change but will not standup for it.It,s like follow the flock or your out.Change has to start NOW Please Tell the chamber that it is wrong to mussel canditates.Again good luck to you.
@ADMIN. Perhaps in your closing remarks you could dare speak some truths concerning Cornwall’s reality and then with little fanfare voluntarily leave the podium and escort yourself out of the building.
Provided that the police have not been instructed to shoot first you should be okay other than the likely life time ban of appearing at or attending chamber functions in the future.
Trevor’s “Chinese style politics” statement is both sad and appropriate in the same breath. Like yourself ADMIN I am appalled by the lack of apparent concern or understanding by the other candidates.
I had considered running for council. Now I wished I had. My fortunately small list of regrets has just grown by one item and I admit that I made a mistake.
David the sad reality is that the culture of our community is allowing the corruption. Many don’t even realize that it is corrupt. This Chamber incident is only a recent example. I can’t think of too many communities that would have allowed Mr. Hargreaves in his role after his statement and releasing of a confidential document. Then again I can’t think of too many communities that would tolerate the scandals of this council or the recent support my our former MPP and Hon Lt Col. of the Glens over the defacement of the Poppy. As much as I like Gary Samler for example his own Veteran Group has chosen to remain silent on the issue.
Politics makes some people do some very strange and odd things.
I agree ADMIN and your statement and the situation itself reminded me of something Abraham Lincoln said, “Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man’s character, give him power.” Enough said.
Only conclusion a reasonably intelligent person would be able to take over this Corn Chamber of Commerce baloney is that they are
in Kilger’s pocket. Shame Shame Shame
These imposed restrictions hinder proper open debate and by so doing it then becomes a Controlled Debate a Farce only in favor
of Kilger.
So Believe Me in your opinion why aren’t the candidates taking a stand?
Adm!
Most of the current Councilors are as I see it also in the club
blindly supporting Kilger and the Controlled Debate if they were
to do otherwise and the TRUTH came out it would clearly implicate them as supporting what they knew or should have known
to be illegal or wrong going back to CAO FITZ etc.
As for the NEW would like to B Couns, some would fit right in to
the current crop while others are reluctant to stand up
I think candidates are not taking a stand against the CoC is because they want to appear at the debate. They know if they publicly refuse to sign or say anything against how the CoC is running their debate they will be univited to attend the televised debate.
@Jamie,
I agree. Solidarity among counsel candidates in the way of boycotting or protesting these “new” debate rules would keep the chamber in line. I don’t see it happening and Believe Me1 has already nailed it on the head as to why this won’t happen.
And this Trevor is why I say that this campaign is a test for the people of Cornwall. There has been enough news over the last four years for people to make some decisions.
To vote again for Mayor Kilger is rubber stamping the culture of bullying, cronyism, and corruption. It’s about saying that Cornwall is essentially a closed shop and that if you come to this city you will be gouged and not treated fairly. That pretty much no matter what you do you never will be given a fair shake or be accepted by the “cliques”.
There are two clear options for mayor. One that is simply changing titular heads which sometimes isn’t that bad an option or one real option for true change.
That message though isn’t getting out because the media is not playing fair dinkum from imbalanced coverage to refusing to take my election ads.
This is our community today in 2014.
The problem is with the people in general who have been bullied for an awful long time and when a good man like Jamie comes around and tells them the truth, they hide and don’t want to hear it because they are afraid of what is going to happen to them. The people are afraid of the present and the future and they are like little kids with a daddy there to protect them and spoon feed them all the garbage and lies but they will take it just as long as they have a welfare cheque coming in and affordable housing which is usually a big dump. The clique keeps people in line and like Mr. Finnerty said which is true the rich in their ivory towers and the poor going to bed hungry at night and there have been too many years like that since 1960. If the people want to stay behind then that is what kind of a town that they will have and they are the laughing stock of the country and beyond. If the people are not willing to change and see the truth then nothing will waken them up out of that mighty deep trance. I guess the poisonous smoke did something horrible to their brains if that is the way they wish to remain.
Like Hugger 1 says I do want to attend the debate and that is why I agreed to sign the agreement. The terms for myself was not a big issue for me. This is a great opportunity for me to face the voters of Cornwall and let them decide if I am worthy of their vote.I am running for Council not Poster Boy for the C of C. I am a worthy candidate for change and doing what I feel is right for this city’s future.I have no reason to start any personal conflict with that group or any other organization at this time. Whether or not I agree with the document or not is not as important to me as winning a seat to improve our city. It’s not like I signed a paper to go into the army again.
Jamie, I see a couple of interesting situations happening here which creates a possible grey area and thus a bit of a problem for many people including some candidates. There has been, as you mentioned, plenty of news to give people reason to reflect on the last 4 years and how the city and council have operated. Despite the fact that most of the other papers either don’t report on these issues or else they white wash them, we have what I believe is the largest amount of interest and the greatest number of candidates running in this election for the past 4 or 5 elections. What I keep hearing, is that these NEW candidates say they want change and that there is a need for fresh blood or transparency or new ideas or accountability, etc. I think this attitude of wanting change is due in large part to the issues you have covered on CFN and also the excellent reporting of Greg Kelic when he was at Le Journal. If not for this I feel there would not be half as much awareness of the issues that have been going on in this city. The problem for many of the new candidates is that there are only a handful of debates and as Gary and Hugger 1 pointed out, they may not agree with the CoC “debate rules” but they do not want to pass up the opportunity to get there message out to voters.
So the problem for new candidates is do they go along with the rules and get there message out or do they make a statement by boycotting the debate. If even more people in Cornwall read CFN and were fully informed of the issues, a boycott might be the safe way to go. However, I think those who get all there local news from The Freeholder and Seaway news will not have the full picture. Having said that, I feel that those who boycott the CoC debate will be written off as a no-show by those voters who are not aware of what is really happening and why they have chosen to boycott the so called debate.
Furthermore, many (not all) incumbents and new candidates, appear to run in the same circles as the clique. So un-fortunately I don’t expect a boycott of this debate.
Jamie you just hit something on the head “Cornwall is like a closed shop” now just think this over my good man. On youtube.com when the Barney Fife PD took you out of the chamber of cretons I along with another person said that Cornwall is a closed society and that they don’t want others to know about their dirty scams, bullying, corruption, fraud and the list goes on or they run you out of town. Officer Perry Dunlop is originally from Saskatchewan and his wife is from Lunenburg and they are very good people and religious. Perry Dunlop was run out of town literally to save his life along with that of his family. This is how the clique operates. I have never seen things this bad at all ever and I guess that nobody spoke about the many long years of sexual abuse of children by priests, cops, lawyers, doctors, social workers, etc. I knew many of the priests and doctors involved and it made me so crazy like to see this on the net and I wondered what kind of a luciferian hell is going on on this earth. I read plenty and I found many answers and it stares right in the face of why. If people don’t read and listen and are not educated then this will all continue to happen. One of the priests involved was teaching religion in one of Cornwall’s high schools and I literally walked out on him and said that I was protestant to leave the class. I had a horrible deep down feeling about him without knowing anything but just my deep down feeling which never lies to me. All these things and so much more has haunted Cornwall for many long years but everything was hushed and people didn’t breathe a word. This is the Cornwall that you moved to Jamie and it is the entire truth. You will learn much more as time goes on.
Actually Jules one of the Freeholder staff from during this time was convicted of molesting his own kids. This is post PT; but that person had a role during the coverage and cover up.
I was just following ORDERS
I heard that after WWII from the Nazis
I don’t want my candidate saying it
Don’t want my Chamber or Commerce demanding it
Seems everyone new running in this election wants to bring change to our city.Lets forget about all the bad stuff that went on in the last 4 years or more in our city and lets only talk about the good things that have went on.Well then lets do that.I feel alot of good has come out with Mayor kilger and the councill we have now.So lets forget about the other stuff and we the people lets vote them all back in.WHY CHANGE ANYTHING THEN.If you new people running think your going to get elect with out standing up against Kilger and this council and you don,t talk about all the bad things that they were part of on this council. well hell will freeze over first before your vote in.
Marc sadly many we are calling new have connections to the old. Alyssa Blais & Carilyne Hebert are essentially Elaine MacDonald 2.0 and 1.0 wasn’t that good.
Brock Frost is…um….well he bought a hockey team.
Pat Clarke, Todd Bennett, are Glen Grant 2.0
Dennis Sabourin is Syd Gardiner 2.0 – He held Bob’s hand while MP and Bob clearly needs Denis to hold his hand now especially as he’s let Courtney use the his city notebook computer…
Rony Macarone & Guy St. Jean follow the Bob Peter’s clique. I was hoping for more from Rony as he’s really a bright guy; but he’s fallen into step with Guy who hasn’t shown much more than he knows how to use photo shop.
It’s one thing to say you want to cut taxes or support the arts. It’s another to understand how to do that. Frankly Cornwall’s crisis in this election isn’t the mayor’s race, but the fact that we will either have another corrupt council or a totally incompetent one.
Admin….Courtney?
Agreed on Blais and Hebert. Do we need 3 Elaine MacDonald’s on council? Nope, not if they’re going to act and vote like her.
I had hopes for Brock Frost. But it looks like he bought the River Kings to further his political career which he’ll use to further his real estate career. It would be interesting to see if he’s elected if he’d declare his conflicts of interests.
We don’t need more clique members on council.
Mr Gilcig / Admin, As President of Friends of Vets I feel I must respond to your comment and post made Oct 5th at 6:25 am ” As much as I like Gary Samler for example his own group has remained silent on the issue”. We are a small group of veterans helping other veterans deal with PTSD and other issues after military service. We are non political but we work with government agencies if necessary. Many of our members have a distrust of government and are hurting people. Our mandate is only to help fellow vets, soldiers and their families deal with life after war or service in the military and that is all. The Legion is the owner of the poppy and a huge national organization that you should be asking to deal with this incident. On a personal level I think it is sad and disgraceful for any Canadian to disrespect the poppy and a symbol of respect for all our soldiers and veterans.
Thanks Gary. We are doing a follow up story on the agencies and individuals who have given HLt Col. Brownell a free pass over his actions to date. The list is quite shocking and shows that Canada really doesn’t respect what the poppy means. I can’t imagine this response in Britain or the US.
{Moderated}
Jules, please again, short and on point. Thanks
Jamie Bare Ass is a coward and how do you think that he is going to face you in a debate. Whoever made up those rules are for Bare Ass and his clique. You and everyone else including me know that there is absolutely no sense at all in these rules and they were written to protect Bare Ass and yes I know fully well what you are up against.
Well Jules Mayor Kilger is the city liason to the chamber….and Councilor Carr is on its board for Heart of the City….