Cornwall Ontario 1 – Bob Kilger 0 – City Chooses Change As Mayor & Cronies Dumped – OCT 28, 2014

kilger aug 11 2014 angle CORNWALL Ontario – Voters wanted change and they made their voices heard Monday night as Mayor Bob Kilger went down in flames.  Going along with him were long term councilors Syd Gardiner, Denis Carr, the despised Glen Grant and Gerry Samson.

As of 9:25 PM one poll still wasn’t reporting but the numbers were clear with Leslie O’Shaugnessy garnering 6,277 votes to Bob Kilger’s 5,396.

CFN Editor Jamie Gilcig drew 687 votes.

But it was on council that most of the changes will be visible with first timers Carilyne Hebert, Justin Towndale, Claude McIntosh, and Brock Frost along with returning Mark A MacDonald joining now second term candidates David Murphy & Maurice Dupelle.

Bernadette Clement, Andre Rivette, and Elaine MacDonald.

The nail biter was Rivette who kept a slim lead over Guy St. Jean all evening.

Denis Carr, Glen Grant, & Syd Gardiner finished 11, 12, and 13th.

It marks the end to one of the dirtiest campaigns this journalist has ever seen which included gross media bias by the Seaway News & Cogeco.

In South Stormont voters were upset with ultra long delays in results which many are already questioning as telephone and computer voting were used.

Unofficial results include Jim Bancroft defeating incumbent Bryan McGillis.  Deputy Mayor Tammy Hart being re-elected as well as councillor Rick Waldroff.   Newcomers Donna Primeau & Dave “Grumpy” Smith all will most likely have to await a recount.

Glitches also impacted other area vote counts as many clearly wish for paper ballots.

CFN will have extensive coverage Tuesday!

Did your candidate win?  You can post your comments below.

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  1. Finucan and friends (eg. turfed politicians) have more than a pa$$ing interest in our section of the St. Lawrence, what with Verdant Energy and the Cornwall Ontario River Energy (CORE) project to generate power with underwater turbines.

    It’s not just the St. Lawrence that smells fishy… watch out for post-election lining of pockets, feathering of nests, and sweet under the table deals.

  2. Author

    Simon CFN will be vigilant with the help of the community. So far the new council has two red flags. I’m hoping for the best; but actions always speak louder than words…

  3. Hi Simon,

    The federal and Quebec governments put money into a Quebec company to develop an underwater turbine . . . . and 2-units have been churning away under the St Lawrence River just south-west of Montreal. The only place where those turbines will be installed commercially would be on some rivers in Northern Quebec near first nations reservations . . . those reservations presently use diesel generators to produce electric power.

    Given the politics of Canada, the product from the Quebec company will definitely be considered for Northern installations

  4. Hi again Simon,

    All the webpages on the project you mention, are several years old . . . dating back between 2007 and 2011. During that time, both New York Power Authority and Ontario Hydro have upgraded their respective side of the international dam. They have raised power output from 1600MW (megawatts) to almost 2000MW . . . that’s an extra 400MW and many, many times the projected output of the river project mentioned in the old webpages.

    A few years ago, New York Power Authority vetoed a proposal for a mass installation of river turbines near Ogdensburg . . . . and under international agreements, they actually do have shared authority over the section of the St Lawrence River that flows by Cornwall. They could use their authority to veto any plans to do a mass installation of river turbines on the north channel of the St Lawrence River at Cornwall.

    With regard to generating additional hydroelectric power, there is an experiment under way in the USA that involves 2-stage hydraulic turbines installed into the hydro-dam. At present, hydro dams use single-stage turbines . . . a 2-stage turbine would increase conversion efficiency, allowing the dam at Cornwall – Massena to perhaps generate an additional 100 to 200MW when installed several years from now . . . . and again, that is many times the projected output of the river turbine project.

    The strongest river current near Cornwall is in Polly’s Gut on the west side of Cornwall Island . . . . except that there is NO WAY that the Seaway would allow for installation of turbines in that channel. The reason is that the bottom of the keels of the ships sometimes scrape
    the riverbed . . . so an uninterrupted flow of water from the dam and into the navigation channel is crucial.

    The future installation of 2-stage turbines in the power dam could slow the river flow leaving the dam. To maintain navigation depth for the ships, there may be need to build a curved under water wall at the north end of Polly’s Gut . . . . and will reduce water flow speed along Cornwall’s waterfront.

    Its possible that a GOVERNMENT FUNDED demonstration of a single underwater turbine may actually get under way along Cornwall’s waterfront once the high-level bridge is removed.

  5. Simon et al,

    Cornwall receives electric power from Quebec while Ottawa receives most of their electric power from ONTARIO . . . even though Quebec is right across the river. Queen’s Park restricts the amount of electric power that Ottawa Hydro can import from Hydro Quebec . . . . the cheapest electric power in North America.

    Without that restriction, electric power prices in Ottawa could drop. As a result, there would be no need for heavily subsidized solar farms and wind farms across Eastern Ontario.

    With regard to river turbines, some 8-companies were given government funding to develop such technology across Canada . . . . and they all have a shortage of customers . . . nobody is buying that technology. Market prospects for river turbines is dismal. As far as a farm of such turbines at Cornwall . . . . GOOD LUCK finding a private investor . . . especially after they discover the implications of such technology at Cornwall.

  6. Do you think the Ontario government would allow Ottawa to import electricity from Quebec and lower prices? Not a chance, as long as they have Hydro One, etc. sitting there heavily in debt.

  7. Jamie,

    Simon raised a good point about the political friends and the government funded energy project.

    Cornwall Electric’s contract with Hydro Quebec will expire within the next 24-months. Should they renew with Hydro Quebec, then Cornwall will be assured of competitive electric power prices. HOWEVER, political friends who represent energy industry associations have been quietly lobbying Queen’s Park . . . . opposing initiatives to import electric power from Quebec. These associations represent sectors of the energy industry that will generate electric power at much higher prices than Hydro Quebec . . . their technology requires subsidy.

    While Southern Ontario and the Greater Toronto Area (GTA) have massive summer time demand for electric power that requires occasional import of power from the USA, Eastern Ontario has no such problem. The prohibition that prevents Hydro Ottawa from importing large amounts of low-cost electric power from Hydro Quebec is tantamount to the political-economic abuse of citizens. During summer, power from Moses-Saunders dam at Cornwall could be sent to the GTA . . . using the power line that connects through Brockville.

    Political friends of the Ontario government who oppose the import of electric power from Quebec have motive to disrupt future import of such power to Cornwall . . . for reasons of the commercial interest of political friends (wind, solar and other technologies that involve higher cost to the consumer). The result could be higher electric power prices in Cornwall.

    There was a proposal (be a political friend) to install wind turbines along Cornwall’s waterfront . . . . the proposal is totally lunatic due to insufficient wind velocity AS INDICATED ON THE WIND MAPS.

    Another group of political friends proposed to install solar PV technology along the waterfront, to the west of the new bridge . . . and re-activate the power line that at one time connected Domtar to the power dam, via the substation on Rosemount Avenue. An Ottawa company actually examined the possibility of installing solar PV panels along the dam wall . . . then declined to do so. Domtar bought more expensive commercial electric power from Moses-Saunders . . . . then eventually wanted to generate their own electric power and share power with nearby industries . . . except that Ontario regulators opposed that proposal about 10-years before Domtar shut down.

    With regard to river turbines, the City of Cornwall has ZERO jurisdiction on the riverbed along the waterfront. A wide range of other bodies have authority and jurisdiction on different sections of the riverbed. The turbines are supposed to be designed to be installed in channels of over 100-ft depth . . . and river at Cornwall’s waterfront is much, much shallower than that. Many boat owners have depth gauges on their boats . . . .only one small section of river located south-east of Cornwall Island has sufficient water depth.

    in the past, we have had people fall into the river, including a construction worker working on the new causeway. We have a waterfront frequented by people who walk along the water’s edge during warm weather. What happens when some one falls into the water near a river turbine that has no cage around it? If they survive, what kind of injuries do they sustain and who accepts liability? If the person falls into the river, collides with a moving blade and succumbs to their injuries, who accepts liability?

    Or do we ban people from walking along Cornwall’s waterfront during warm weather?

    During winter, Ontario actually generates excess electric power . . .mainly from nuclear power stations that for reasons of reliability have to operate at full output. As a result, Ontario has paid outside utilities $-billions to take delivery of electric power. Imagine a pizza factory that has excess production . . . . they deliver pizza’s to your front door and pay you to take delivery.

    There is actually a technical research paper at an energy webpage that describes several methods of season energy storage . . put energy into storage during winter and extract several hundred megawatts of energy during peak summer demand. Except that the Ontario government prefers to patronise political friends.

  8. Our electricity here in Ottawa is a lot higher than that of Cornwall’s and yes it is Ottawa Hydro who is in charge of this and I wanted to point something out is that at times when you need the electricity to work like at supper time, etc. it is mighty weak like a candle when you put on your stove. At first we thought that it was just the apartment buildings that they were doing this to until we spoke to our friend Robert and some others who own single homes and it is the same thing. There is not even enough power to go around to 1 million residents and Ottawa was supposed to sustain less than 500K people. It is a very big strain on the system and they cannot provide enough for the people.

  9. I just hope that Leslie fares out a great deal better than Bare Ass and I keep telling myself how worse can it ever be after experiencing all this corruption of Bare Ass and company. When money changes hands there are no friends only business partners. Well we have to have some kind of hope and if things go sour then what. People would have really lost it if there are no improvements. I am literally disappointed in three who were re-elected and one newbie. I am like a push and shove both into one and we will see the outcome of this and it will take time. How can it get any worse than Bare Ass.

  10. Jules… peak demand times if demand is greater than supply electricity is rationed out.

  11. With regard to electric power in Cornwall, there is the possibility that people with political connections to Queen’s Park may attempt to ran Hydro One on to Cornwall, just as Cornwall Electric’s agreement with Hydro Quebec comes due for renewal. There is much anti-Hydro Quebec sentiment going on in Ontario these days, especially amongst people who have political connections to Queen’s Park and who are connected to the power industry.

  12. The current contract between Fortis and Hydro Quebec expires Dec 31st 2019. This contract was given an exemption until its completion date under the Green Energy Act. Under the current legislation Fortis will not be permitted to enter into any further agreements with Quebec Hydro. Energy must from that date forward be purchased from an Ontario supplier.

  13. Under federal legislation Quebec Hydro cannot charge more internally (Canada) than it does on the international market (USA) This means currently that if Quebec Hydro was to enter into agreements with Ontario jurisdictions the cost would be in the 7-8 cent per kwh range on a long term contract basis. While this would benefit all Ontario customers it does not conform with the current and past Liberal government ideology. The electorate rewarded the Liberals with a majority in the most recent election sending the message that the majority are in favour of higher taxation, higher energy costs, and greater expenditure on social programs. We voted our approval of increasing fees on everything and confirmed that we were happy with the state of our provincial health care system. While recently admitting that the Green Energy Act was not the best piece of legislation it was confirmed that contracts and financial commitments would remain in place.

    The costs have bankrupted the province and put us into have not territory for likely decades to come. Taxes will have to rise dramatically to meet the demand of servicing the massive Ontario debt, particularly as we continue to get downgraded and interest rates rise. This eventuality coupled with the highest energy costs in North America is going to place the average income earner into poverty territory in the future.

    We are about to get what we asked for.

  14. Oh joy, David Oldham, you’re just full of good news today aren’t you? Just what we want to hear that come 2020 our hydro bills are going to skyrocket.

  15. I didn’t ask for Wynne and her government. But I have to accept the will of the uninformed.

  16. Hugger, it was actually the Cons who made sure that Wynne would win. They couldn’t have chosen a more repulsive and stupid leader.

  17. Keeping ones head buried in the sand creates the illusion of safety.

  18. Sort of agree with Furtz. But to me it was uninformed voters who gave the Cons the thought that they could win with Hudak.

    David Oldham….I NEVER bury my head in the sand. It makes it hard to breath.

  19. I think the voters sent a strong message to the Cons about Hudak two elections ago. They didn’t listen. Both those elections should have been cakewalks for the Cons.

    Burying one’s head in the sand keeps the woodsmoke out of the lungs.

  20. Mr. Oldham is absolutely right folks and I have been reading plenty about this for some time now. We are all going to face high taxes on everything and yes Ontario is broke literally. There will be a terrible strain on heating, lighting your home, etc. I spoke yesterday about we here in Ottawa not getting the full power in homes and apartments and Hugger answered me that it was being split between people because of demand and it is a big strain on the system and it is going to get a great deal worse than what it is now. The jobs have gone overseas and you would think that there would be more electricity to go around but no the population is growing because of immigration and no work and we all pay. The only jobs are out west and even now with the oil prices that are lowered there is less demand on lay offs. Many homes are for sale all over Canada and people can’t afford them. I heard this morning on the Jewel radio that this younger generation prefers to rent instead of buying and I have heard that some years ago. It is unaffordable and it is a money pit.

  21. Here’s hoping Leslie O’Shaughnessy and Brock Frost have enough sense to declare their conflicts of interest when it comes to their real estate dealings. After watching Elaine MacDonald’s non-action on conflicts of interest in the last council I’m hoping for proper action by Leslie O’Shaughnessy and Brock Frost. But Elaine MacDonald did declare her conflict of interest in the Agape Centre the last time they were up for discussion. But then she continued to discuss AND vote on the motion. She just doesn’t get it or doesn’t understand what conflict of interest is. Carilyne Hebert is another I’m concerned about. She’s an Elaine MacDonald protege. We can hope she declares her conflict of interests when matters relating to the Big Brothers Big Sisters program, Agape Centre, the Cornwall Art Gallery (TAG), and the University Steering Committee come up.

  22. TO David Oldham,

    Thanks for clarifying the situation with regard to Cornwall receiving electric power from Hydro Quebec . . . so we get Quebec power until the end of 2019. While Ontario’s green energy supplies 4% of Ontario electric power, it accounts for about 20% of the power bill, see article:

    David, you revelation confirms my suspicion . . . . the behaviour of the political friends of Queen’s Park, who live in this area, were literally dropping hints of an impending hijacking of electric power in Cornwall. As a result, Cornwall’s economic future is literally screwed unless that ground water located deep under the swamp in the industrial park can hold enough seasonal heat to sustain the winter heating requirements of industrial building in that park.

    So the political friends are literally going to ram some of their political perversion straight up Cornwall’s rear end . . . utterly deplorable !!

  23. OK people . . . . can we take a stand to fight for access to continued cheaper electric power after 2019. Yes, we’ll be going up against some politically well-connected friends of both Queen’s Park and Cornwall’s soon-to-be former mayor. These political friends have their own ambitions and interests . . . and Cornwall’s continued access to hydroelectric power from Quebec is neither an ambition nor an interest of theirs.

    So perhaps during the term of Cornwall’s next mayor, some of us may be able to stir up the electric power situation and protect our right to free of choice in our source of electric power . . . . and not have the political friends of Queen’s Park literally ram their agenda up Cornwall’s rear end.

  24. Mr. Valentine and folks you will be paying considerably higher electricity if Cornwall goes under Ontario Hydro. I won’t forget out hydro bills here in Ottawa when we rented a duplex and then a garden home. My husband and I would yell about the bills back then and we were really careful like misers and didn’t have the things that we have today and were working all day and never home until the evening and WOW it hit us between the eyes to see what we had to pay out. That was back in the early 80’s when we went through this. In my husband’s words “we have to find a place where utilities are all in one payment” and we moved back into an apartment building where everything was in one payment in the rent and it was high. My rent is very high and such a small place but the utility bills are high. A few years ago the owner had the heat pretty well off since something went wrong with the boiler on the roof and we through many blankets on the beds and put on extra clothing. We sure won’t forget those days and this will be coming back because it is going to be way too expensive. People are selling their homes for good reasons.

  25. An UNELECTED bureaucrat likely made the decision to end Cornwall getting electric power from Hydro Quebec at the end of 2019 . . . . and the elected MPP, elected mayor and elected council are required to put up and shut up and submit to the high-handed behaviour of an unelected government employee or political appointee. This is nothing more than an act of abuse of governmental power being enacted by officials at Queen’s Park against the citizens of Cornwall, who are going to be required to cover the cost of excessive spending by earlier Ontario governments. The decision to compel Cornwall to discontinue buying electric power from Hydro Quebec was never debated by the Ontario legislature, neither did the MPP’s vote on such a decision. What we have here is nothing more than the hijacking of the democratic system . . . . an unelected bureaucrat is given the power of a dictator over Cornwall’s future. What the hell kind of government is Premier Wynne running in Ontario ??

  26. Mr. Valentine there will be more shocks yet to come and wait for the humoungous rise in water that everyone will be paying. Up goes my rent again. That will come do in March since the owner screwed up as usual and put the increases for the following year. Food is a nightmare in the stores. Some time ago I even suggested to people to grow their own food if they have yards. Food is going to be out of this world and already people are starving in many areas of the world. Many shocks are yet to come and we haven’t seen anything yet.

  27. Harry Valentine said: What the hell kind of government is Premier Wynne running in Ontario ??

    I hope that was a rhetorical question.

    2020 is 5+ years away. There is still time to right the ship. We can get this deal where Cornwall Electric can’t buy electricity from outside the province fixed.

  28. Good luck Hugger1. I have been trying to get a city councilor to respond on this very issue for three years. Either they simply do not understand the ramifications or they don’t care.

    The economy of Cornwall is fragile at best and offers far to many service, call centre or warehouse type jobs in relation to careers which offer a wage capable of supporting a family. With a substantial welfare population and a large aging demographic Cornwall’s ability to withstand a changeover from an affordable Quebec power source to an outrageously costly Ontario supplier is rather limited. I would propose that lobbying for a continued exemption from the Green Energy Act be made based on the hardship that the majority of residents will face otherwise.

    If our municipal politicians do not get behind this upcoming reality soon, how can we possibly feel that our best interests are being respected or protected? Another four years like the last eight we just don’t need.

  29. Harry I was opposed to the sale of the city owned electrical utility, Cornwall Electric. Council of the day saw dollar signs and were blind to the future consequences of their short sighted vision.

  30. Author

    Yes they were.

  31. Calling it blind, I think, is being polite. Ottawa still owns their hydro utility and get massive profits from it every year.

  32. David Oldham,

    A few members of Cornwall City Council had political loyalties to Queen’s Park . . . so there was no way that they would challenge the Green Energy Act.

    The bureaucrat(s) who concocted the Green Energy Act would likely have been McGuinty appointees . . . and closely connected with the office of the former premier. So there was little chance for Cornwall to have challenged aspects of the Green Energy Act that would end the flow of electric power from Quebec. At the time that act was implemented, Charest was the premier of Quebec.

    Dalton McGuinty out of the Ontario Legislature, there may be opportunity to challenge the Green Energy Act. The bureaucrat or appointee who drafted the section of that act to terminate Cornwall getting electric power from Quebec, may likely have transferred to another department.

    The next provincial election is due in either 2018 or early 2019. If another political party takes over the reins of government at Queen’s Park, then Cornwall may get the chance to challenge relevant aspects of the Green Energy Act to keep the power flowing from Quebec.

  33. Harry I agree with your comment concerning political loyalties around the horseshoe at city hall. I suspect that the next four years will not only be challenging for the government but troublesome for the taxpayer as well. With a debt of over 288 billion dollars costs to service this debt are placing a strangle hold on budgets. Short of the government reigning in spending on a rather large scale taxation(fees) will have to climb. The reality is that regardless which direction the government chooses the average person is going to be worse off in four years time. The old concept of things will get a lot worse before they get better I believe applies to our current predicament. The positive side of this possible reality is that it will strengthen our argument to have the exemption from the Green Energy Act extended.

  34. Hugger 1 said Ottawa still owns their hydro utility and get massive profits from it every year.

    Another view on that is the users are over paying to what amounts to, an extra tax revenue source to misspend by politicians to get photo ops.

  35. Eric…not really. The rates are set by the OEB, not Hydro Ottawa.

  36. Author

    Long time no see Eric. Welcome back to CFN.

  37. David et al,

    Let us recall that the citizens of Oakville/Mississauga rebelled against the natural gas plants that McGuinty and Co. were going to ram into their neighbourhoods. Their protest worked . . . and the Ontario Government cancelled the gas plants at a cost of several $-million.

    So there is hope for Cornwall to take a stand to protect getting low cost electric power from Quebec. We are part of a united Canada that includes Quebec . . . . NOT part of the sovereign independent dictatorship of Ontario.

  38. RE: Cornwall’s former CAO

    David et al,

    Did Cornwall’s former CAO who was implicated in the whistle-blower case, know about December 31, 2019 when Cornwall was going to lose access to hydroelectric power from Quebec? If he did’nt know, why was he the CAO.

    If he did know, did he advise Cornwall City Council? If not, then why not ?? If they knew about it, why the silence ?? Are they silent due to political loyalties to some special friends ??

    Cornwall city administration needs to make a public statement about their knowledge over prospects of Cornwall’s future loss to low-cost electric power from Quebec.

  39. I really never left Admin, I still enjoy coming here. I have just been too sad to respond since Stellabystarlight stopped posting. LOL

    Hugger 1, the OEB can set rates, but 10’s of millions of dollars sent from Hydro Ottawa to City Hall annually, is over charging at one government type entity and giving to another.

  40. Author

    Stella refused to adhere to our new posting policy. If she (or he) ever wishes to comply they are welcome to join.

  41. Don’t expect much in the coming years in Cornwall because Ontario is in an enormous debt mostly do to the stupidity of McGuinty and we Ontarions have to pay for their dirty dealings. Electricity will become mighty high not to mention the water bills will rise not only in Ontario but all over Canada. Taxes will rise and people will have less in their pockets. There is a big drought just now in California so get ready to dish out more money for food. This coming spring get your ground ready in your back yards and make a garden for those of you who are property owners. Food will be astronomical. For those of you who rent make little gardens in pots. We haven’t seen anything yet.

  42. I miss StellabyStarlight and was going to ask you Jamie where he/she is. This person had good postings.

  43. Author

    Jules Stella refused to comply with the posting rules for using pseudonyms when we switched over as you and other chose to do.

  44. All that Stella had to do was register his/her pseudonym just like I did and others. Your the only paper that I like and would not go to another. You have the best paper for Cornwall and so many do not appreciate your hard work and are also “envious” of you as well.

  45. While I hope something will be done to maintain Cornwall’s hydro rates past 2019 I also realize Cornwall (46,000) is small potatoes compared to Oakville (183,000) and Mississauga (713,000). Here’s hoping our local and provincial representatives make this a priority before it’s too late.

    Eric, I agree. Overcharging on hydro rates to give the city of Ottawa a big dividend cheque makes no sense. Robbing from Peter to pay Paul makes no sense.

  46. Thank you Harry for injecting some critical thinking into the debate.

  47. Very interesting questions Harry Valentine. I’d say that the former CAO knew about the 2019 cut-off date. If some average citizens know about the cut-off date then certainly the former and current CAO knows about it. And certainly city council knows. Here’s hoping everyone gets off their behinds and this problem becomes a priority to solve.

  48. Former US president Delano Roosevelt said back in the 30’s era that nothing just happens in politics and that you can be well sure it was well planned in advance. How mighty true that is. I believe that Fitzy knew all about the 2019 deadline where the Quebec Hydro will end for Cornwall. Politics at all levels is all planned ahead and no surprises for the politicians only for the general public.

  49. Of interest, Ottawa Hydro owns several small hydro-electric power stations on the Ottawa River and one at Rideau Falls. The little power dams date back to 1890, were mothballed for several years until being recently re-activate to generate about 100-megawatts of power (about 10% of the output of the Canadian side of Moses Saunders power dam).

    If some of Cornwall’s political elite were hoping to have Finucan’s turbines generate electric power for Cornwall, they may be getting far less than they may expect.

    About 5-years ago, Transport Canada banned kinetic turbines from being installed under commercial navigation channels . . . . a tug-barge has to deliver chemical product to the tanks on Cornwall’s waterfront, at the west end of the docks. The channel leading to from the docks is a commercial navigation channel . . . meaning no turbines in front of or east of the docks. At Cornwall with a recreational area located next to the river, may be possible to get that ban extended right up to the new causeway . . . leaving a small section of river between the causeway and just east of the entrance to Polly’s Gut, being available for river turbines.

    Except the turbines need to be installed in water of 100-ft depth to operate at peak efficiency . . . . there is not enough water depth along Cornwall’s waterfront, between the causeway and entrance to Polly’s Gut. No turbines allowed in Polly’s Gut as it supplies water to a commercial navigation channel located on the south side of Cornwall Island, where ships often scrape on the river floor.

    To install multiple turbines on the North Channel, to the west of the new causeway, requires approval by multiple stakeholders that includes Power Authority of New York State (who vetoed a proposed mass installation of turbines in the river near Ogdensburg).

    The chosen design of turbine is the wrong design for a shallow and wide waterway . . . . so good luck to the political friends in their negotiations with the private investors (some of whom engage independent consultants and researchers to evaluate the potential viability of energy project proposals).

    ALSO, amazing that Todd Lihou commented on the exact same subject under discussion at CFN.

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