11th Councilor by Jamie Gilcig – We need more truth in Waterfront Negotiations between Kilger Council, MCA & Feds

bridge2CORNWALL Ontario – Cornwall’s waterfront is in play.    The Chem tank situation is the Canary in the Coal mine and now our Mayor is at play with the Federal government.  Akwesasne is involved is well.

What should be alarming to the public is that this is all being conducted behind closed doors in an election year?

Does Cornwall Mayor Bob Kilger have a mandate to do this from the public?  Was this part of his election platform?  Was there a public consultation?

Nope.  Can he do it legally?  Maybe.  But it’s morally wrong for him to be participating in secret meetings over our waterfront lands at this point of his term especially as he’s refusing to put his name on the dotted line for re-election.

The Chem tanks in my opinion has been a game since the first story appeared in other media with faux surprise issued by all concerned.

It was CFN that shared the info from Transport Canada that the city knew via Economic Development in February and Spring 2013 of the project.

Why did ED not put it in any of their monthly reports to council and why if council truly was upset did they not ask that exact question through the mayor in open council?

Again, we in the media and taxpayers can’t do much if council is not open, transparent, and public regarding issues like this.

The city issues this recently:

City officials participate in meeting to discuss port divestiture

Officials from the City of Cornwall met with officials from the Mohawk Council of Akwesasne and Transport Canada on Friday, February 28th to discuss the divestiture of the Port of Cornwall.

Earlier this week, Cornwall City Council agreed to file a joint letter of intent with the Mohawk Council of Akwesasne to begin negotiations with Transport Canada on the divestiture of the Port of Cornwall. Transport Canada received the documents during today’s meeting for their signature. Meetings will be established in the near future to initiate the formal divestiture talks.

Meanwhile, City Council held a special in-camera meeting on Thursday, February 27th to receive an update on the situation surrounding the storage tanks development site in the harbour area of Cornwall. Stormont-Dundas-South Glengarry MP Guy Lauzon and Transport Canada representative Doug Smith, Chief of Staff to the Federal Minister of Transport, were also in attendance.

I asked the city for a copy of that joint letter from the city as well as the MCA.  The MCA did not respond and Norm Levac replied, but we still do not have that letter.

Remember this is a waterway that in meetings last year said we could not have a beach in Cornwall due to threats of disturbing sediment.   Now it’s ok to have tankers side up next to the Legion Ball Diamonds?

For the city of Cornwall to acquire Federal waterfront property in Cornwall is something that needs proper public consultation and proper environmental studies done.    If the City of Cornwall ends up with lands that need expensive clean up who’ll foot the bill?  Certainly not Bob Kilger or his council of rubber stampers.

It’s enough of this secrecy.  It’s time for some answers and it’s time for council to step up to the plate and fulfill their Declaration’s of office and defend the rights of we taxpayers.

Of course we still are in the dark on many issues.  Does anyone really expect Grand Chief Mitchell and the MCA to give up on land claims so that Cornwall can have some harbour properties?  I mean why would you negotiate that even, if you thought they already were yours?   Again, silence from the MCA is not helping get to the truth of what’s happening.

And that’s something we in Cornwall and our neighbors in Akwesasne need more of; the Truth.

The people of Cornwall and Akwesasne have clearly spoken and they don’t want the Chem tanks, yet according to media reports it was Mayor Kilger that asked Grand Chief Mitchell to stop their request for a review that led to the continuation of construction.

We have one shot to develop our waterfront here in Cornwall.    Corruption should not hold back our community.   And no deals should be made until the next election when a new mayor and council have a clear mandate from the people of Cornwall.

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  1. I did a little research this past week on the land in the area of the tanks.

    To begin with the area was never remediated and still contains the contaminants left by the previous businesses.

    What the city has done is an In-situ treatment. This treatment simply attempts to retain the contaminants with in the area involved, and then covers them with soil. This is the same situation as the gas station which was located on the corner of No. 2 high way and Moulinette Road in Long Sault and in part why nobody will buy the land. When it is sold the responsibility to remediate falls upon the new owner should they wish to excavate for any reason.

    Hydrocarbons are one of the easiest contaminants to clear, and can even be done In -situ however without knowing the contaminants who will pay for an additional environmental assessment? Then if further investigation is needed and we all know it will because neither Monroe nor Kaneb has any records of what was stored there. Who will pay?

    General procedure is as follows, we have soil analysis of samples, surface water and sediments the migration pathways followed by a baseline risk assessment. Imagine how much we would have to pay if the migration pathway was large.

    That being said do you think the city should now pay to remediate the contents? Or is it best left to Trillium to maintain it as a storage area and have the city pass a bylaw for aesthetics and environment?
    Now with the current construction progress you can count on Trillium making a nice sum of funding if it is stopped.

  2. Author

    Hailey I do believe that the people of Cornwall and the area have clearly spoken and that they do not want Chem tanks there. That’s a starting and end point for me as it should be for any elected official.

    Clearly as the Feds leased that land previously when it was polluted it’s up to them to remediate it to the point that it’s usable for development.

  3. You are incorrect Admin, I support our beliefs relating the people of Cornwall but so far as property management and ownership you need to do a little more research.

    It is and always shall be you want it you buy and we shall remediate but you shall pay for it. No different then you purchasing a home and expecting them to put on a new foundation. Who do you think will pay for it?

  4. Author

    Hailey last I recall you don’t even live in Cornwall. It’s about a corrupt/incompetent group taking a mess of the Feds hands in the final year of an election.

    Why on earth was the Benson Centre the most expensive piece of land in Cornwall history? And then why did the taxpayers have to spend nearly an extra million to clean it up? Again, either corruption or incompetence. Either way it’s not good business for Cornwall. And this mayor and his council should not be entering into any agreements without public consultation and proper environmental studies done. And no, not by the River Institute which has close ties to City Hall.

  5. Admin
    What does living in the city have to do with caring for its wellbeing and hopefully returning someday because we have actually had some form of scrutinized economic growth?

    The most expensive piece of land in history you ask? Please shed some insight to any other comparable lands sold in the area at the same time and land value.

    What do you believe reclamation for land should cost? As stated earlier, if I was to buy your residence and found the substrate to be contaminated or in need or reconciliation would you pay to have it cleaned or would you incorporate it into the cost of the house sale?

    There was only a small portion reclaimed and it was hydrocarbons relatively cheap that is where the chippers use to be located which did not have a lot of environmental issues.

    I can assure you the money spent does have a ROI attached to it and though I have not reviewed the earnings to date, I would be willing to bet it is meeting expectations.

    I guess you feel it better to have trillium walk away and charge taxpayers millions in lost revenue in this venture. Once that is achieved what would you see done with the property?

  6. My apologies it should read “un-scrutinized economic growth”

  7. Author

    No Hailey. My solution is simple. The city come clean with how the deal went down. I don’t think at this point that Trillium has done anything wrong. I do think though if the city had been honest and transparent that resistance to this project would have prevented the first shovel from occurring.

    There is only one issue here and that is how the city has handled this mess.

  8. This is strange. I’m finding I’m agreeing more and more with Jaime.

    The thing I don’t like is if the city buys the harbour lands they are then responsible for fulfilling any contracts currently in place and then would be responsible for any required clean-up(s).

    In regard to the Benson Centre and the gas station at Hwy 2 and Moulinette Road in Long Sault I believe this is an “as-is, where-is” sale condition. The same thing was involved when we sold my parent’s place after my dad passed on. Our real estate agent advised us against making any renovations / upgrades as the person buying it will want to make their own updates / upgrades. I firmly believe that the current owners of the harbour lands / gas station at Hwy 2 and Moulinette Road in Long Sault should be responsible for the clean-up for those lands UNLESS they sell “as-is, where-is.” Most responsible landowners will pay for the cleanup of their brownfields. I would caution the city to tread very carefully when attempting the harbour lands purchase.

    I agree with Jaime I don’t think Trillium has done anything wrong. They are just trying to build tanks and feel the harbour lands are the best location for them. As for them ignoring the stop-work order the lands are owned by the federal government, so local / provincial laws do not apply to these lands.

  9. So true hugger, if you make the mess you should be responsible for cleaning it. However in the real world it doesn’t work that way at least not in Ontario.

    If we begin chasing industry around without government legislation it will simply cost more in legal fees and encourage businesses to further utilize the free trade act.

    Your real estate experience is pretty much an industry standard across the board, buyer beware simply put.

    There is potential for a great venture including the MCA in this situation. It will be one of the first co-operative land deals of this kind in some time. If we can swing this deal we can have a casino not affiliated with OLG. Develop the area in such manner making it an entertainment zone. This would put Cornwall n the visitors map as OLG facilities pay mere tuppence for winnings while raking in billions in revenue.

  10. Hailey ! Universal Terminals stored caustic soda for Dow Chemicals at that site and then loaded the caustic soda into chemical tank trailers as required by Dow Chem. for delivery to their customers .
    Regarding remediation ! Some Contaminated material was hauled away and some I seem to recall ended up on a driveway just north of R/R crossing on McConnell / the ground was white indicating ( Caustic Soda )
    That seems to be the pattern of how things are done here, another example would be the removal of contaminated material from 7th and Cumberland site and trucking that material a few blocks west to Big Ben.across from the Benson center. One thing is for certain on the Tank issue some body dropped the Ball.

  11. Bill I have no doubt on the Caustic Soda, however it is highly exothermic when in solution with water which would burn the grounds depending on the quantity. It would leave a slippery feeling on the ground kind of like your hands feel when they have bleach on them.
    I would bet the white you see is more a result of dumping chlorine or fluorides in the ground. It could also be a result of Domtar dumping white liquor used in bleaching pulp.
    White dust also signifies lime, potash and a few other chemicals that are more apt to leave this kind of residue.
    Admin isn’t Reg Coffey experienced in chemistry? I would like to hear his comments

  12. In Canada the “Polluter Pays Principle” has been used with mixed results, and in the case of the federal government as owner, and municipal government as buyer… well, don’t hold your breath (maybe just hold your nose).

    While preparing to appeal against dumping toxic material from Domtar’s No-Co-Rode site (Cumberland and Seventh) and the Domtar Paper Mill (Brookdale and Second) at Big Ben, it became apparent that the government preferred to see all of the contaminated waste product and contaminated soil simply moved — remediation which could have been done locally was not considered.

    As a result, the contamination at Big Ben continues to leach down and in one instance is percolating up under the Benson Centre in the same area it was noted even before construction began. (incidentally it is also moving below the WalMart and surrounding mall areas, and is even making its way to the St. Lawrence as runoff from rain and melting snow.

    This is all officially documented by studies paid for by our governments.

    (The Domtar Wikipedia site and the link to Big Ben found at the bottom of that page, has more info)

  13. you said it simon cant change what is done lets move on lets work on how we can change tomorrow

  14. @Hailey Brown….if a deal is struck with the MCA I don’t see a casino in our future. Why would they want to establish one when there is one in Hogansburg, NY? If a casino were established both would suffer.

    I remember at one time when the seller was responsible for cleaning up contaminated lands. When did this change to the buyer being responsible?

    Why is Big Ben still being used? I read about it and it seems that it is a time bomb just waiting to explode. It should be closed and cleaned up NOW!! Who will be responsible for the cleanup, the city? province? Domtar?

  15. Hailey ! It was caustic soda not something else that was dumped and turned white, I am very familiar with
    the handling of that product .
    Re Big Ben / If it is true as Simon states that contaminated run off is running toward the river ( canal )
    at some point it will reach our water supply line then we certainly could have big problems .
    The material 7th and Cumberland site should have never ended up at Big Ben it should have gone to the
    Leflesh dump site near 417 hwy . It’s all about the money and what they can get away with .
    With out CFN the truth would likely never come out .

  16. Author

    Mr. Beattie CFN had several document submitted to us regarding Big Ben that should give us all a cause for concern. Very scary.

  17. Hailey, I’m sorry that I missed your request that I weigh in on the environmental residue issue. I get all excited when someone thinks I know something. Basically Caustic Soda is sodium hyroxide and is easily converted to sodium chloride or other salts through rain and normal acidic compounds present in the environment. I suggest that the white residue is a form of salt. However even salt in large enough concentrations is dangerous to the environment and will corrode metal.

  18. Big Ben needs to be closed NOW!! There is definitely something wrong with governments thinking it’s okay to use this as a dump for 3 seasons and a ski hill for winter.

    From Wikipedia “Cornwall does not enjoy a positive environmental reputation as a result of decades of industrial pollution in the city, the legacy of which is a riverfront contaminated by mercury, zinc, lead, and copper, soil contaminated by coal tar and byproducts, and most evidently, “Big Ben”: a 45-acre (180,000 m2), 80 metre tall dumpsite within the city filled with wood bark, paper mill sludge, demolition waste and asbestos.

    In September 2008, over public opposition and in spite of Ontario Ministry of Environment (MOE) reports indicating off site leachate impact from the dump and the likelihood of runoff to the St. Lawrence River, the MOE permitted additional dumping at the “Big Ben” site of creosote and bitumin contaminated soils from Domtar’s former No-co-rode Ltd. site.

    Although the area is touted as recreational, it is off-limits until winter when the waste is covered and the odours are subdued. It is then used as a ski hill.”

  19. Reg credit given where its due. We may not agree on everything but I think we have similar focuses

    So far as I know and from my experience the seller does clean the lands but only after it has been purchased. They will sell you the land, then offer to remediate and you cover the cost or a portion of it. It’s mere politics.

    Hugger/ Bill
    Big ben has been invading the water tables since the 80’s. The mass has impeded the flow and redirected the tables as well. It is filled with hard metals and as you know materials that are not healthy when used as a fertilizer.

    The former Domtar site or no corrode pipe manufacturing facility has been given a no dig order by the MOE when it was first demolished, But I see Wal Mart has the ok to disturb the coal tar and not use any environmental barriers….

  20. The No-Co-Rode site is/was rife with asbestos residue; asbestos being part of the asbestose, creosote and tar concoction used to make the pipes …those pipes by the way are still collapsing here and there in Cornwall (and elsewhere), …guess who has to pay for the new city connections?

  21. We know of business people here in Ottawa who are very wealthy similar to the Kanebs in wealth and they used to have a gas station on one of their properties and they cannot sell that property at all here in Ottawa unless they clean up the property which would cost a bundle of money.

    As for the no-corrode pipes we had those horrible things at our house and we were always worried and thank God we sold and wanted nothing more to do with any of that. Big Ben is an eye sore as well as it is leaching into the St. Lawrence River. Speaking about dumps the old Cornwall dump on St. Michel Street has been converted into a park and is mighty dangerous for people to go on and is leaching into people’s basements. Cornwall is one big dump for sure full of mighty dangerous chemicals of all sorts. The highest cancer rate is in Cornwall or one of the very highest of cancer rates in the province. Cornwall is so mighty dirty and polluted that nothing will change that at all. It has been too many long years of complete and total neglect. Who wants to live in a polluted dump.

  22. Brownfields, etc. (No-Co-Rode site, Domtar) need to be cleaned up as soon as the current building is demolished, not when the property is sold. As for Big Ben it never should have been allowed to be created. They’ve created the monster, who is going to kill it?

  23. And worse than that Jules, there are gay people living in and around Cornwall, and even in Ottawa!
    Probably best to stay indoors. It’s a scary world out there.

  24. I Remember growing up on hoople street, that we as neighbourhood children would play on that big ben ski hill …I remember the slug..its was dark grey mixed with wood chips and other guk…..skating, behind Pfizers on the little lake, with oil or gas or something on it……the smell from domtar would make us want to vomit the sulfur tinted the paint on our car …my dad was always pressure washing the house down……when i see big ben today….i see a past of bad smells…smells that remains to this day …after all this ….I am thankful to God that I, to this day remain cancer free………considering i walked to school everyday, walking on the sidewalk down second street , under the big domtar chimney…..you could feel the showering mist as it came down on you but at school …we all smelt the same ..so no one cared….or noticed…….no wonder there were so many pedophiles in cornwall then……it must have been all the chemicals mixing in the air or something…….!..I still love my city and all its beauty and magical people…

  25. I remember the mist of the mill (Domtar) that Marc Carrière is talking about and yes when I walked by I felt it. Years ago I used to smoke the odd cigarette and it was thanks to the horrible smell of Domtar that made me quit. I haven’t touched a cigarette since and I wasn’t really a smoker just smoked the odd one and I believe that I have been free of nicateen since a good 15 or more years now.

  26. With all the pollution in Cornwall it would be major cleanup and a great deal more than what the people think and the cost would be horrendous. Someone has to be accountable for all of this. All this pollution leads to many diseases including brain damaged people. Just spraying your lawn with herbicides which is mighty dangerous to the health is bad enough but when you have all those heavy cancer chemicals left by Domtar and others then who is responsible for the cleanup. The Optomist Park was once a dump and I remember when that dump caught fire and I was a child when I saw that. The town of Cornwall just put ground and grass on top of a dump and called it a park where people are subject to all kinds of diseases and that dump called Optomist Park is leaching into peoples basements on St. Michel. All that goes into the ground water which is mighty cancerous. When people have no education and no knowledge then they don’t think about any of that. The same with the dump called Big Ben and the dump called The Benson Centre, and the dump of the old Courthaulds building and I can go on and on. This would be major cleanup and still it won’t solve the problems because it has been too many years happening and in different parts of town. I believe in turning garbage into electricity and this should be done pronto. The people have to change and get involved in what the city is doing. You can’t put the full blame on Bare Ass even though I can’t stand hide nor tail of the man but get down to city hall and find out what has to be done and put it into action. I mentioned before that privatising jobs of the city is the way to go and I have heard that on the radio here in Ottawa as well which is in agreement with the way I feel. Get people off their keesters and get out and clean things up and bring in good ideas. The problem with people is that they complain all the time but they don’t take an active role in what is going on around them. If you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem.

  27. Jane Doe I will call the mayor Bare Ass anytime and it is the cleanest thing that I can put into print. As for going on and on so do many other people but when I write more than a few sentences then some of you jump down my back for it. If you do not like it you don’t have to read it.

  28. Sounds like your just part of the problem Jane Doe……the mayor has been called worse I’m sure…….there’s a great picture of him on a milk carton…it says ” Sour “…………..Jules …he speaks the truth …..You …all you can do is defend a mayor who is so full of Bs…….the only ones who care really …are the rich of cornwall …..When it comes to Abusive situations ….These glorified mongers are the best……..The system of ” Just Us”…..and the poor , Well they can eat ” Pucks “…..

  29. Marc
    The only reason the situation is as it is, is simply the people asked for exactly what they received. Well paying Mill jobs and a chance to play hockey when you were too old to play for the Royals.

    Nobody predicted the future and nobody wanted to even anticipate it, hubby use to say “pretty soon we will all have one then what are you going to do? we need innovation”.

    I also think it shows somewhat in the tanks situation, Nobody ahs offered an alternative for the tanks, Nobody has asked of the quality of the land, and in fact the city never invested in and remediation.

    Big Ben is illegal

  31. Marc Carrière I said it so many times before that there is no justice in Cornwall and only JUST US which is for the few rich people – the clique and for nobody else.

    Hailey Brown you are right indeed that Big Ben is illegal and that is running into the ground water and people do not realize the harm that it is causing to people’s health.

    Someone mentioned lately about the Keystone oil pipes underground in the area where his parents live in Long Sault and it wasn’t very long ago that I brought this up with Jamie (Admin). I have read something about that in some paper on the net where those pipes were underground in the area of Eastern Ontario near Cornwall and other towns. This worries me as well. The oil is coming from the west to be shipped over to Europe. The oil in the west (Alberta) is being shipped to the US to be refined and then shipped over to China (the vast portion of it) and we Canadians do not get that oil at all and we have to import our oil from the Middle East and the US. We sure do get the shaft.

  32. Jules; where do you get your info? The oil we use is our own or from the U.S., not the Middle East. It is refined by us, or in the U.S.

  33. Hugger we do not use our own oil and I got that from people who are talking about that on the net. We get our oil from the Middle East and the US and our oil is not refined here at all. Our Canadians are pushing to have our oil refined here so as we can have the jobs in Canada but the oil from Alberta is refined in Houston Texas and sent to China through there. I have also read that on the news that our oil is not ours. Do you know that it is US investor Warren Buffet who is part owner of our oil along with the oil companies. The same thing with our mines as well as everything else. Canada is gone and is Canada in name only. The “banksters as in gangsters” own all the oil and minerals of the world along with the big oil men. Have you ever heard of the NWO (New World Order) as well as North American Union, European Union, Asian Union, African Union, etc. well we are no longer going to be sovereign and it is also in the Bible as well. The US is involved in all of this and if you listen to former US pres. Bush Sr. and listen to his speech in front of the UN back in 1990 or 91 about the New World Order.

  34. You can believe what you want, Jules. We use our own oil. As for Bush I wouldn’t trust a word he says.

  35. FYI.

    As for where we get our oil…. from an article by the Globe and Mail

    Virtually all of the crude oil used in refineries west of Sarnia comes from Canada. Because of the vast distances involved, costs, complexities and environment issues in running pipelines across this country, crude oil used in the eastern refineries comes from offshore, a limited amount from Canada’s offshore wells, but the majority comes from foreign countries.

    The sources of the foreign oil are: Algeria (17,942 cubic metres per day), United Kingdom-North Sea (15,370), Nigeria (11,835), Norway (11,483), Saudi Arabia (10,922), Iraq (6,376), Venezuela (4,218), Mexico (4,089), United States (1,857) and 29,999 cubic metres a day is purchased on the open market from other sources.

    We have a few oil refineries in Canada. Check out the list below derived from Wikipedia.

    Newfoundland and Labrador
    North Atlantic Refinery, located in Come by Chance (North Atlantic Refining), 115,000 bbl/d (18,300 m3/d)

    Nova Scotia
    Imperial Oil Refinery – Dartmouth (Imperial Oil), 89,000 bbl/d (14,100 m3/d)

    New Brunswick
    Saint John (Irving Oil), 300,000 bbl/d (48,000 m3/d)

    Montreal (Suncor Energy), 140,000 bbl/d (22,000 m3/d). Formerly Petro-Canada (before Aug 2009) and historically a Petrofina refinery. Montreal Refinery[17]
    Lévis (Ultramar(Valero)), 265,000 bbl/d (42,100 m3/d)[17]

    Nanticoke Refinery, Nanticoke – (Imperial Oil), 112,000 bbl/d (17,800 m3/d)
    Sarnia (Imperial Oil), 115,000 bbl/d (18,300 m3/d)
    Sarnia (Suncor Energy), 85,000 bbl/d (13,500 m3/d)
    Corunna (Shell Canada), 72,000 bbl/d (11,400 m3/d)

    CCRL Refinery Complex, Regina (CRC)), 145,000 bbl/d (23,100 m3/d)

    Strathcona Refinery, Edmonton (Imperial Oil), 187,000 bbl/d (29,700 m3/d)
    Scotford Refinery, Scotford (Shell Canada), 100,000 bbl/d (16,000 m3/d)
    Edmonton (Suncor Energy), 135,000 bbl/d (21,500 m3/d). Formerly Petro-Canada (before Aug 2009)

    British Columbia
    Burnaby Refinery, Burnaby (Chevron Corporation), 52,000 bbl/d (8,300 m3/d)
    Prince George Refinery, Prince George (Husky Energy), 12,000 bbl/d (1,900 m3/d)

  36. @Marc…. I think you are mistaken or maybe took it the wrong way.. I was just fed up with Jules always referring to the mayor as Bare Ass… I do not support the mayor or the council at all… Some posts are interesting and enjoyable to read others not so much.. That was all Yes I have seen the milk carton etc…

  37. Personally, I am most impressed with a candidate who ignores personal insults or refuses to play in the dirt. It bespeaks a level of emotional maturity that is going to come in handy if they attain office. A quiet stoicism is a powerful tool sometimes. There are plenty enough issues locally that require attention. Mudslinging is wasted energy , thought and time.

  38. Jane Doe…..I am also fed up with Jules always referring to the mayor as Bare Ass, he has a name use it!! As well, I do not support the mayor or most of the city (??) council at all. I’m also getting a little tired of Jules repeating the same stories over and over and over again about Cornwall the bad. Say the story once, once is enough!!

  39. Author

    Michael we never truly find a candidate that fits all of our preferences or criteria. We can only pick the best one in any given election or on any issue. Speaking for myself I will not change, or mold myself to pander to any votes. I will speak firmly and clearly. The rest is up to the voter.

  40. I will continue to call the spade a spade and when I say Bare Ass I will continue to say that whether you people like it or not. I will continue to say what I think about the administration of Cornwall and its people. There is a well known saying is that “people cannot handle the truth” and that is the truth and I can see it here just as plain as day. I am not a politician and never will be and never wanted to ever do such a job and so many ungrateful people who sit like a bump on the log and expect others to make LA LA Land for them. I am the only one that all of you attack and if this is the case then I hope that Bare Ass gets in again and gives you more of what you deserve.

  41. Jules…..whatever. {MODERATED} BTW, I (& I think most on here) can handle the truth. We’re just tired of the same stories and things you say over and over and over again.

  42. Author

    I am going to remind everyone to please not attack each other. Debate is fine, but please stay on topic as we are here to inform and entertain. We will not tolerate personal attacks.

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